Feeds:
Posts
Comments

TPM – The Pentecostal Mission

*Comments have been re-opened but will be moderated

womanprays.jpg

Have you guys heard of The Pentecostal Mission (TPM)? I’m sure you must have heard some half-baked guys singing loudly, off-tune and with reverberations of “Hallelluiah” and “Praise the Lord” every five minutes late into the night in your neighbourhood. Well these guys are part of the “Halleluiah goshti” or Pentecostals.

The strong, fanatical and only true followers of Christ are the TPM members.

The TPM members feel that they are unlike the lilies of the valley, which neither spin nor toil and let their heavenly father take care of them. Either these guys live in morbid fear of hell or an intense longing for heaven: Otherwise I find it hard to interpret their fanatical devotion to misinterpreting the Bible.Some of the things that are likely to get the goat of non-believers (in their language this word includes the poor, deluded Christians who are not part of their denomination as well):

*The women do not preach in church or elsewhere. You see Paul said women were to be silent in church, so the decree: No woman pastors needed. For was not Eve, the first sinner who enticed Adam to sin, a woman? Anyway these worthy disciples of Apostle Paul (who did not get married) and Apostle Peter (who found the ministry more interesting than the cares of domestic life) do not let women preach or talk in church. A woman’s duty is to listen to the men in the church, for are not men the heads of the family like Christ is the head of the church? I wonder how they always manage to come up with verses that suit their convenience. When I quote the Bible that “men and women are equal in the eyes of God,” I’m the “devil quoting the scriptures.”

*The brothers and sisters in the church lead a life more austere and Augustine than the Trappisian monks. Yup! No coloured uniforms. Plain white robes and even plainer food is the order of the day for the full-time workers of this church. I wonder how they can forgive God for creating the bright-yellow of the daffodils, the azure of the violets or the dark reds of the geraniums? Or do they feel he was wasting his time by creating dye-producing plants like the Indigo? Even the lay people in the church come every Sunday to church dressed in white. If they associate white with purity is black the colour of the devil and the BMWs, which some of their chief pastors own, the machinations of the devil? >:)

*No medicines. Medicines are taboo, according to them for is not Christ the supreme healer? This is quite a horrific misinterpretation of the Bible. My first clash with ultra-Christianity came at the age of 8, when I was vacationing in Rameswaram. A worker at the Mission hospital told us a story of how their neighbour’s child died of typhoid, because the child Christian parents wanted divine healing. The little girl, had been extremely sick, but the parents refused to take the girl to a doctor. The worker told us how all the neighbours were planning to forcibly take the child to the hospital, when the child died. He told me, the worst blow, the parents had was when the pastor, told them that the child had died because they had doubted that God would heal the child. Later, on I heard more stories of how people had to have their legs amputated, their skins peppered with diseases, because they believed God would someday heal them. Even, when I was a god-fearing Christian, I viewed all this extreme distaste. Now that I’m out of the Christian fold, I can find similarities between this fanaticism and the fanaticism that leads people from other faiths to kill their own children as sacrifices at the altar of another God.*This church doesn’t believe in letting its members see the TV, hear ungodly music on the radio or read anything ungodly. Anything apart from the Bible and their monthly text of piety called The Pentecost is termed ungodly by these people, who are the self-proclaimed true-Christians.

*Another ridiculous thing is that they don’t believe in letting women wear jewels. Apparently men wearing Rolex watches and flaunting their Fords will not in anyway increase their vanity. But women, the avaricious creatures that they are, will go haywire at the sight of gold. I think all this idiocy stems from Paul’s saying that it is better that a woman adorns herself with good works, than with jewellery or braiding their hair. Well Paul said: Its better you do this than that, but The TPM interpretation: Women must not wear jewels. So if you see most Pentecostal woman in India have to forgo gold – a security and investment, as it increases their vanity. In foreign countries I’m sure this Pentecostal teaching is no hardship, but in India, with every other housewife being decked like a jewellery showroom, it must be a pretty hard cross for these women to b(w)ear. After years of staying in the TPM church, my grandma moved away. Now, she sees the pastors’ wives in more liberal Pentecostal churches wearing jewels and badly wants to wear jewels again, but doesn’t do so because she feels it will look ridiculous to resume wearing jewels at her age. Why all this deprivation? Why all the fuss? Wear jewels if you feel like it, since its normal in Indian society for women to wear jewels. Anyway if they are going to misread Paul’s statement like that, they must also wear their hair loose and never use hair clips, hair pins, barrettes, ribbons or braid their hair. For did not Paul say it is better for a woman to adorn herself with good works than wear JEWELS or BRAID her HAIR?

Rachel Chitra

Error Regreted, Clarification: I had earlier made some references to the TPM’s history, it now appears that:

“Chief Pastor Alwin de Alwis was excommunicated by Pastor M. Daniel in France faith home on charges of sexual misbehavior.  Pastor Alwin was subsequently forced out of CPM by Freddy Paul and other senior ministers.  This took place in 1962/63.

Pastor Philip Chandapillai, Associate Chief Pastor, was assaulted by TPM believers at the Kottarakara, Kerala center faith home for changing the name from CPM to TPM.  This took place in 1983/84.”

Author’s note: This post was written more than a year ago. There are some things in the post like “half-baked guys” & “Halleluiah goshti” that I wish I had not written now. Those words sound hasty & immature. I want to apologise if I have hurt the sentiments of TPM members. But I still stand by my doctrinal criticism of the church. I have also posted another article - in which I have recounted the history of the TPM as told to me by a current TPM member.

About these ads

1,063 Responses

  1. Jesus Christ will save you & your family.

    Very soon you might pull down this post.

    GOD BLESS YOU


  2. God Bless you


  3. May Lord open your eyes of understanding. Spend some more time reading and meditating on the word of God. Soon you will
    regret for this unwarranted post.

    God Bless you


  4. Praise the lord
    it is a great privilage to know the good news more in these last days before the Lord comes
    please forward more Live movie CD / Dvds
    Lesslie jokim.c


  5. Hi Lessie,

    I don’t get it. This post is more anti-religion than pro-religion, if you had read it closely, so what’s with the “Praise the Lord”?


  6. Hi Premyz,

    You said, “Jesus Christ will save you & your family.

    Very soon you might pull down this post.

    GOD BLESS YOU”

    First, you make the assumption that I am not a Christian and neither is my family. While I’m an athiest and my blog reflects my views, please don’t make predictions that Christ, who was born 2,000 years ago, is very interested in saving me. And saving me from what? Cyclone, floods or hell-fire?

    And my family members, who are devout, conservative Christians, would definitely feel offended by ur comment that “Jesus will save them.”

    You also predict: “Very soon you might pull down the post.”
    Can you please stop with the predictions?

    And finally, the “God Bless you” is too smug for me too believe its sincerity


  7. Hi Jacob,

    You say, “May Lord open your eyes of understanding. Spend some more time reading and meditating on the word of God. Soon you will regret for this unwarranted post.

    God Bless you”

    First, I don’t believe in God and find your comment: “May Lord open your eyes of understanding” very patronising. Commenting on my blog on my capablities to understand is also plain rude.

    Secondly, I don’t need your advise to “Spend some more time reading and meditating on the word of God,” as I did that for 20 years and found the Bible unjust, irrational and factually incorrect.

    Thirdly, “Soon you will regret for this unwarranted post,” sounds like a threat. Is ur god going to do petty things like taking revenge on atheist bloggers for blogging? And also whether the post is “unwarrented” or not is a debatable issue.

    And I don’t like the condescending tone, in which you & Premyz “God Bless me”

    Why don’t we have a sensible debate? Are there are not such unfair practises being carried out in churches?
    Can you only engage in name-calling? Can we not debate on the many things seriously wrong with the church?


  8. Guys,
    Calm down. everyone has their own rights to say what they like or what they feel. If you feel offended do reply in a kind manner , dont get angry with the person who has posted it. If you really disagree with her then try to prove her wrong by facts and not by anger. The questions posted by her in different posts make lot of sense, try to answerr that or please refrain from comments.

    Rachel,
    Well yes there are lot of malpractices in the church, well after all they are men and they are prone to mistakes , But for all of this dont get angry with GOD . I read in a previous post that you like the principles of Jesus , but donot beleive he is GOD. Well truly i tell you if you follow the teachings it is more than enough.
    That is wat his intention was also , He never told them to spread the relegion , he just told them to spread the message, which has now been lost because the church does not stand together and fight within themselves.

    Regards,
    Stephen


  9. The Pentecosal movements, when began to get popular
    about 50 years back in India, they were tormented by the
    mainline denominations, but the Pentecostal movement is the
    fastest growing Christian denomination in the world. Among
    the Pentecostal denominations, the Pentecostal Mission
    (formerly known as the Ceylon Pentecostal Church) is perhaps
    the most conservative and other mainline Pentecostal
    denominations kept a distance. But I must say that the
    Pentecostal Missions have a very solid and aggresive
    evangelization drive and more people are added to the
    Church. The Pentecostal Mission people have conducted
    prayer meetings in front of our home, my dad’s business
    because they were preaching the gospel to a crowd of
    Hindus and Muslims. I am non-denominational in my mindset
    but I will stand with any denomination, whether they are
    Catholic or Pentecostal, if they present to the world that
    Jesus is the saviour of the world. Even the hardcore atheist
    will come across with reality of life, and naturally will call on
    God. So, it is better to call on Him and find peace with Him
    while we are healty and normal.


  10. Hi Matthew,
    Can u tell me what do u mean by adding more ppl to the church. Is it adding more strength to the Christian population? Or is it bringing more people into the teachings of christ?. The former is something the chuch is more interested in but the message of Jesus was clearly for the latter.

    It is good when u say that u are non denominational in mindset, but unfortunately the church isnt’t.rt???

    Regards,
    Stephen


  11. God bless u


  12. wow!! you are so very very wrong and i feel very sorry for you. i am actually a minister in the church and am full of joy, grace and love. i do not wear “white” oopps, i’m wearing a black skirt. please find out why we wear white in India and other asian countires and realize that in america, the uk, canada and other places we wear “regular” western things. anyway!!! may God bless you, but please do not share false notions, though you sure are allowed to share your opinions as opinions. praying for you much, and remember, bitterness isn’t woth it no matter who its toward, keeping your heart is all the matter so that we all will be ready for his coming where, perfection in faith will matter much!!!!! by the way we don’t only believe in divine healing but in divine health as well….what a thought?!


  13. Hi d.more,

    I was referring to the custom of pastors in TPM churches wearing white. I am guessing you belong to some other pentecostal church…And also “black skirt”? Are you a woman pastor? If so, my congratulations. I feel the church needs more women doing its work (not just at home).
    And as to bitterness, I think you mistake the point. And I’m suprised that people keep on telling me they’ll be praying for me. Honestly, do you guys include my name in your morning devotions? Or is it just that I’m the heathen/sinner and you out of Christian condescension are displaying your holier-than-thou attitude?


  14. Hi ther…..it ws rather kind of very awkward 2 find sumone so boldly an confidently criticizing a church which has quite a lot of believers,who r happy and contented within its fold. Luk, I’m nt responding 2 u to prove or challenge u…I’m sure u hav a gud reason 4 expressin ur thots…I mus say I appreciate ur frankness.
    As a member of tis church, I rather respect the doctrines meted out…Christ did nt cum 2 tis wrld 2 create a denomination or an establishment….He jus wanted tat ppl b saved frm the viles of the devil…u kno abt the part u said abt being afraid of hell….Yes,tats a very gud reason to follow God…who wud want 2 be in burnin fire an brimstone???my neighbour who is an atheist says she wud rather go to hell because ther shud be sumone ther!!!
    Basically the church doz nt consist of only rich members…..i thnk ther r more poor ppl as believers….believe me,I havent seen anyone being abandoned jus bcos they r poor…if tat is wat u mean…
    Ther r women pastors in TPM….one of the local churches in kerala had a very efficient lady leader….also I hav met sum of the women pastors frm abroad ….in India ,tis kind of worship set is followed becos its the culture…tat dos nt mean men and women r unequal…I don’t think any of the ministers of God(the ladies I mean),complain abt such a set up.
    Ok the color part…generally white is symbolic of purity….tat dos nt mean thos who wear white r pure!!!!after all man has his natural faults…..if he wer perfect ther wud b no need of a God in this wrld!!!!then the whole pt of worship wud b lopsided..its nt the spiritual wrld alone tat denotes black as evil…I am a student of literature and I hav seen quite a lot of examples enuf!…its jus tat ther is sumthin tat the color white dos 2 man…I’m sure u hav hrd of hw the colors affect the emotional state of man….the uniformity is becos,wen ur part of a grp,u shud hav sum sort of coordination,jus like in schools,the army…
    Then the part abt the plain fud..psychologists hav said tat man becums more fleshly accelerated wen he uses meat an stuff….an very healthy wen eating the vegetables….in the earlier times ther ws less money an more poverty….bt as time went by God blessed the church and gave increase….the bad part is tat ppl who wer once spiritual got involved in materiality and thus went away frm God……tis is nt abt all bt sum…comeon,evry denominations hav such problems…
    Abt Divine Healing,which is one of the doctrines of the church…Rachel,tis is nt sumthin tat cn b forced upon anyone!!!i’m sorry 2 find the pastor who presided the funeral service said such an unholy statement which I too find very shockin…..tat is nt the way the church has really explained it….the concept has nt been pointed out as such in the bible…it begins frm old testament onwards…u kno the bible so much more than me….i’ve jus been reading it 4 6-7yrs….ju mus hav read frm exodus abt hw God promised 2 bless the ppl by takin away diseases…..it is the individual faith of a person…I believe tat if God cud so beautifully craft me ,giv me life,giv me tis wrld 2 live,why cannot He cure me?nobody frm tis church hav I hrd preachin tat tos who dun t practice divine healin wud go to hell….if a family wishes 2 practice divine healin then I feel others shud rather respect their rights than interfere …..it is nt a will suicide….
    Ok the media,the ungodly music….wud u rather see all the crime and violence dun in the media or prevent ppl especially youngsters so tat they cn lead a safe life?is ther an explanation 4 all tat is goin on in the wrld 2day?its 4 all 2 see……the cinema model violence!the music….the wrds r first of all in sum songs absolute nonsense….also they make a person turn 2 unwanted ways….is ther any sort of problem in preaching against such useless things which can lead evn gud ppl into dirty pool?
    The othr thing is jewellery….wen I came 2 tis church ,I dint hav anybody forcing me 2 let go of my jewellery…infact I wore it 4 abt 1yr or so.who evr wants 2 resort 2 such things.its fine….it is part of individual right…..ther is no part in the tpm doctrine tat says women shud nt wear jewels…my aunt who is a believer stil wears gold becos her husband dos nt want her 2 remove it……yet she is in tis church…the hair and stuff…2days fashion is loose hair in diff styles…so if such a custom ws followed in the church ,wudnt ppl criticize and say”tos TPM fools preach simple life,an luk @ their ladies!”?
    See Rachel,u know wat the problem with the wrld is?instead of seein the gud, ppl try 2 find the bad. Criticizing wil nt get anyone anywer….why du u think ther is racial discrimination?the same fault of criticism and satire.it is generally said-evn if ther r 99 gud pts in a man,ppl wil try 2 bring up and scrutinize the bad which mite b only 1.
    Tpm is nt a religious denomination or establishment which tortures ppl:it is rather a way 2 lead ppl 2 God.why luk @ the ppl?Follow God…..bcos He alone is perfect….
    U find the bible unrealistic which is rather a sorry fact becos the reality is tat it is true…u mite ask me hw am sure of it…ther again is tat mysterious play called ‘faith.’ Faith cannot b forced upon anyone,it is the wrkin of the holy spirit…records in Jerusalem an such places hav proof of the fact tat a certain Jesus ws crucified and many wondrous things happened which obviously no one can deny….jus think abt any God who wud dare 2 sacrifice His only Son 4 a stiff necked race!
    Praisin God is nt jus a ritual of TPm bt common 2 all denominations……besides wat harm dos it do 2 us 2 praise the creator of the whole universe?nobody is callin u a sinner or heathen….u an I r equally sinners……if no devil existed,wat is the explanation 4 all the basic evil in us?usually atheists say everythin jus existed!tat is quite unreasonabl bcos ther is always a cause an effect ….evn the tiniest particle hs 2 b created….
    I don’t kno hw far I’ve convinced u. u mite stil find sum pts lackin in my response…tis is my faith…very simple.i don’t go lukin 4 deeper truths.basic knowledge abt God is more than enuf…..jus bcos ur granma moved away frm Tpm dos nt mean u hav 2 find fault with tis church(hey no offense meant)….ther r always 2 sides 2 evrythin….one cannot always b perfect…
    I am nt telling u 2 read the bible or tryin 2 find fault with u.pls don’t misunderstand….take care.


  15. hey rachel…
    was so intrested reading your blog…
    YOUR ideas abt things!! life!! pratices!!! seem very very practical and thats like……….great!!! hats off!!!

    but guess the part where you challenge GOD is quite confusing..!! you seem to talk from a single perspective!! Jesus is defintely not about wat one group says.. or believes !
    After seein tat you ve been able to quote so many verses from the WORD.. why din this strike you to say.. Jesus says come as you are!!!

    if you ended up being an “athetist”after being born in a christian family.. you must have your reasons for it!! and if……………….. i say IF it was because you saw the extremes then guess its TIME you reconsider!!!


  16. Hi Rachel Paul & Chweety,

    Thanks for the gracious comments. I am just in the middle of a mad week and want to take time and think before responding to them.
    Thanks again,
    Rachel


  17. your views were really interesting to read…..

    every organization, political party, revolutionary movement has an armed group which swears and marches by the ideals of its institution and blazes a path for others to follow

    TPM can be said as the sword’s edge of protestant Christianity,

    just like military….order……. no questions asked….

    you mentioned a range of thoughts followed in TPM… but they are the very ideals which has helped us grow this far,,, while other institutions are struggling before modern ideals……, sexual cases{roman catholics in US} women priests{church of England}…………..

    my opinion is, gain some more experience on life …… then decide by yourself!

    on the other side I appreciate the Vocabulary of your statements they show emotions and feelings in a very bold way.


  18. Sister

    Sister request you to go through the site http://www.rzim.com & http://www.cfcindia.com

    I got the answer from these sites…


  19. Calm down guys !…. Let us first examine ourselves before making comments on others !!


  20. sister,

    Pls don’t come to conclusions. Man is weak and imperfect which is why he needed a Saviour. So if you don’t need God then you must be a perfect person. But if you lack peace and love in your life pls turn to God. I have experienced God’s love in my life when I believed in His Son Jesus. My life has changed since then and am confident that He can change your life as well. Reg TPM pls don’t judge them if God has revealed some imperfection in them pls pray for them otherwise God has changed me alot through their teachings. Am no superhuman to certify them but God Himself proves to be with them by the kind of love they have towards God and fellow believers…. The same is also mentioned in epistle of john… The humility, holiness they teach and practice.. They might seem hard on doctrine but truly if you have the right spirit that would only enable you to get closer to God. May God change this website for the Glory of His name.


  21. Hi Rachel,

    I just found your blog . Regarding the way you mentioned Divine Healing I thought I should share my experience . I come from a family of 6 of which 3 are docters. Last year I had a small swallow in my right hand and the bone started thickening I was not able to move my fingers at one point of time . I never took medicine I just kept it in prayer . One day when I noticed it was gone completely .

    Regards,
    Arun


  22. [...] to have stepped on too many toes in my previous posts. I have approved all comments received on TPM-The Pentecostal Mission . I am yet to reply to the thought-provoking comments of some of my readers. It was also quite [...]


  23. There is a verse in Bible “O taste and see that the LORD is good: blessed is the man that trusteth in him”.

    My dear Sister,

    I was also born and brought up in a predominant TPM (CPM) family and later become an ardent atheist in my youth life.
    One day in my life I happened to really taste him and found he is so good to me.
    I hope you will also meet him at a cross road where you will have eternal solace and abode of peace.
    The other apologist views like clothes; BMWs, medicines etc are so irrelevant for a real truth seeker. God bless you and your family.
    Regards,
    Kiran


  24. Dear Sister,

    I read all the coments posted on this site, i kindly request you not to pass on any further comments on the TPM CHURCH, U cant change any one from their own belief and faith. They might seem hard on doctrines but truly if you have the right spirit that would only enable you to get closer to God. God has changed me a lot through their teachings. I have experienced God’s love in my life. My life has changed since then and am confident that He can change your life as well.

    1)JUDGE not, that ye be not judged.

    2)Thou Hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brothers eye

    3)But i say unto you, that whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgement, but who soever shall say thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

    4) Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely for my sake.

    GOD IS VERY MERCIFUL AND HE STILL LOVES YOU.
    DONT WORRY SISTER WHAT EVER YOUR WOUNDS ARE GOD IS THERE TO HEAL THEM.
    LOVE HIM, TRUST HIM AND LET YOUR LIPS CONTINUALLY PRAISE HIM

    Regards,
    Sandra


  25. Hi Friends

    IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO KNOW ABOUT THE FALSE DOCTRINES OF TPM (EX- CPM) PLEASE CONTACT:

    susan.george2002@yahoo.com

    1. THOUSANDS HAVE BEEN DELIVERED FROM THEIR IDOLATROUS ZEAL FOR TPM WORKERS.

    2. THOUSANDS HAD THEIR CALLING FULFILLED AS A PRIEST AS PER 1 PETER 2:5,9 WHICH THE TPM WORKERS WERE DELIBERATLEY WORKING TO SUPPRESS.

    3. JUST BEWARE OF TPM WHICH IS A WORKER-GLORIFYING CULT. THEY DO THIS BY DISTORTING THE SCRIPTURES.

    4. JUST ALSO BEWARE THE WOLVES IN WHITE CLOTHING. THE TPM WOLVES ARE CONCERNED ABOUT SPREADING THEIR DENOMINATION AND IDENTITY RATHER THAN THE KINGDOM OF GOD.

    GOD BLESS YOU AND OPEN YOUR EYES.


  26. Greetings!
    I was going thru your views..thought I shud share mine as well..
    I was born in a Pentecostal family(not TPM) and didn’t wanted to be like my parents. I was adamant that I will seek the God who will really speak or let me know that He is a living God.
    And Jesus talked to me one day..He told me that He is my friend…with whom I can share all my worries, troubles, disappointments, happiness…
    Since then I’m very content in Jesus. Since you are born in a Christian family, I’m sure you will understand this.
    Jesus asked His disciples to spread this message to world. The message of His Love for mankind, His understanding all human troubles, afflictions ….
    He has done many miracles in my life..If I need something in my life I ask Jesus. I have faith in Him that He will fullfill that..
    I will pray to God that this Jesus’ message of love, be spread in all the world..so that Satan can’t deceive people.
    God bless you dear!


  27. LIFE OF SIMPLICITY. WHAT DOES IT MEAN?

    Frequently, Pentecostals use the word “simple-life” to justify certain of their practices. By “simple-life”, they mean the following:
    • Wearing white saree, white dhoti, white shirt and white Jibba.
    • Abstaining from jewels.

    Interestingly, the Buddhists in the Indian sub-continent followed such practices and during the days of Jesus, the Pharisees had similar practices. Pastor Alwin and Paul were probably influenced by the abundance of Buddhists in Ceylon.

    Thus by the above practices, the Buddhists and Pharisees brought spirituality to an “external” display.

    WERE THESE PRACTICES OF PENTECOSTAL BELIEVERS “CONSISTENT” TO THEIR BELIEFS?
    The Pentecostal believers who spoke about simplicity and abstained from jewels also did the following:
    1. Got overseas jobs for better salary.
    2. Had lakhs of money in their personal account.
    3. Immigrated to modern countries for a better living.
    4. Got the best education to earn a luxurious amount of money.
    5. Purchased the best set of coat, suit, silk sarees and pullovers.
    6. Built better houses with the best furnishing.
    7. Ate the best food.

    Moreover, even the TPM workers have many Millions in the TPM Trust! Land and buildings whose value alone amounts several Billions across the globe!! No more “faith for rice or jeerakam” needed. They have “servants” to wash, cook, massage the legs; their dwelling place has carpeted floors, western closets and toiletries; food includes Chicken-in-coconut-milk Kerala menu; They dress in Cambrique cotton jibbas and sarees; have cars with A/c; they use sunglasses, Singapore towels, VIP suitcases and bags, bathroom slippers, cots with cushion mattresses, fruit juice at regular intervals, regular laundry of curtains, Bed sheets and pillow covers, china dishes and cups, machines for Grinding, mixing and juice-making. The list could continue!

    Not satisfied with the above, the TPM believers happily blame the non-TPM pastors of not living “simple” when they have failed to “see’ the above inconsistency!!!

    WHAT DOES THE BIBLE SAY?
    However, 1 Samuel 16:7 says, “But the LORD said to Samuel, “Do not consider his appearance or his height, for I have rejected him. The LORD does not look at the things man looks at. Man looks at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart.”

    The above verse sums up God’s nature. Moreover, God is unchanging in His nature. Even now, He looks at the heart and not the external appearance.

    In total disregard to the above, even Christians who call themselves Pentecostals and anointed with the Holy Spirit have miserably chosen to “inconsistently” “display” their spirituality and righteousness externally rather than internally nurture the “priesthood calling” that God had given them.

    NOW, TO WHOM WAS SIMPLICITY EXHORTED?

    A) Firstly, the apostles exhorted the Christians to be simple as they were new in their faith and did not know how to handle prosperity. Those Christians were focusing & bragging about prosperity instead of the “crucified Christ” and thus ended up trusting prosperity and also ended up in sin.

    Now, however, God has flooded the church with His knowledge. Thus, God primarily expects us to be strengthened “inside” rather than make an “inconsistent display” of “external piety”.

    B) Secondly, simplicity is exhorted in the “evangelistic” context for both workers and believers. Thus, Paul says that we need to adjust our “external” practices, not in holiness, in order to bring unbelievers to salvation. This means eating and dressing, not immodestly, but similar to the unbeliever’s culture. For example, when sharing the gospel among Buddhist monks, refrain from jewels and when sharing the gospel among Hindus, do wear them. Eating pork when among the Chinese and refraining from, when among the Jews and Muslims. Being in a coat and suit when in the west and being in pants when evangelizing the Indians.

    CONCLUSION:
    1. Why not righteousness & religion be “internal” rather than be displayed on the external in an inconsistent manner?
    2. Why not the preaching of the gospel be “externally” seen instead of a “show of piety”. Would the Pentecostals who are taught to listen to stories from pastors on Sundays understand this?
    3. Why should “kootaaima” become an excuse to keep the believers as spiritual kids?

    susan.george2002@yahoo.com


  28. Hi Susan,

    Greetings… You’ve really spent a good time gathering all those details and compiling it all together…

    But did you read it again and think about it?? you keep talking like ‘external’ purity is sin… just because said God looks at your inner purity, doesn’t really mean you can shun all external purity… Then what about Paul and Peter advising you to put off outward adornment and be simple?? You can’t really be simple and humble in your heart with all outward adornment… “Face is the index of a mind”, remember?? Jesus too has said, what that is within a man’s heart comes out of him too… so what you ARE externally, it is the reflection of your inner man… I’m not saying here that everyone who wears white and simple dress is holy, but it’s not a sin… why look at the blacksliders and hypocrites while there are so many good people out there??

    Every good institution has some sort of dress codes… Doctors and nurses wear only white, every school has it’s own uniform, every military service, every other institution of some service has it’s own dress code… so, why can’t TPM have it’s own??? Why are you questioning/Criticizing TPM???

    Coming to your next argument, TPM believers are not TPM preachers… There are set of doctrines and not every man is perfect… People do their best to follow them… It’s between them and God… and excuse me, “Ate good food”???? is that a crime now in the city??? When did God (or any TPM doctrin, for the discussion’s sake) ever forbid you from have good food?? You eyes of understanding are so blurred (sorry, no offense intended), you don’t really think about what you are writing…

    and thank God, “TPM workers have many Millions in the TPM Trust! Land and buildings whose value alone amounts several Billions across the globe!!”… Praise God, He has blessed the ministry… but you are right, it’s in the name of a trust… tell me if it’s in the name of the trust, how is an individual benefitted?? it’s for the church and not an individual worker… tell me one Faith home (Church of TPM) which is in TPM worker’s name?? Why do you begrudge God’s generosity???

    And may be yes, some workers without proper understanding of their mission might use some luxuries… but doesn’t mean everybody does it… our Chief pastor, he does have a bathroom slippers but they are his only sandals…

    again, coming to your external appearance, what you are talking here is about God given things..appearance, height, good looking, bad looking, whatever, are God given things and He doesn’t exactly care how you look for He created us all… but when we say of simplicity, it’s what we add to it…. You are not allowed to wear many types of dress in many school/colleges/offices, why??? It doesn’t befit the orgranization.. how much more is for the church of God??

    NOW, TO WHOM WAS SIMPLICITY EXHORTED?

    A) Yes, God has flooded the Church as a collective entity, with His knowledge, but what about an individual??? Does everyone soul know it?? Do you mean to say, once you gain the knowledge of Christ, who preached simplicity, you can go back and trust in your riches??? Again, God open your eyes!!! ‘Inconsistent Display’… yes it would be an inconsistent display of external adorment for inward holiness…

    B)What is that you are trying to say here, I don’t really understand… Eating, what goes inside a man, has nothing to do with his spiritual life… that’s wat Paul has said and our Lord Jesus, too… but for adjusting with them, you can’t go to movie with your friend to convince him, you can’t drink with him to preach the gosple… same is in wearing jewels… if you are not steadfast in your own doctrines, people don’t even consider about our faith.. we need to mirror Christ to them and not mirror the people around to attract them…they have seen enough of themselves… show them Jesus, they will come running to Him…

    CONCLUSION:
    1. When people are too full of themselves, they consider it a shame to call themselves Christians and that’s why they don’t any part of them say they are Christians… That’s all these ‘say no to external holiness’ come from…
    If you had put the question as, ‘Why not righteousness & religion be just “external” but be “internal” too’… that would have shown your interest in consistent display… but your question purely says that you don’t want to be known that you are Christian…
    2. I didn’t understand your point…
    3. You’ve forgotten the foundation principle of TPM, “We preach that we may present every man PERFECT in Christ Jesus”, not as kids, dear sister…

    I have not written anything above to hurt you or to convince you or to profess ‘TPM is best’ or anthing of that sort…. As a member of the church, it’s my responsibility to stand on it’s behalf…

    God bless you all!!


  29. Susan, what is ur point exactly? I mean are u even a christian in the first place? Cos all i see you doing is spitting venom! Why are u so bothered bout who has how many slippers and who ate what for lunch! You are so lame. Grow up. No body is perfect and as christians every one is running their race…some may be pressing forward deligently some may have fallen asleep while some may be pulling their socks up and giving it another try even after slipping and falling many times. Thats how it is. It is God who will judge. To each his own. Why are you so bend on pointing fingers? Thats very easy to do u knw. Every one cn do that. Its nt difficult to make up faults even on a blameless person if you want to. So stop being so petty. Try doing something productive and positive instead.


  30. on November 6, 2008 at 2:49 pm REV.KENNETH JAMES

    Calvary greetings, Do you go into partnership with churches in foreign countries?


  31. Heyy Rachel…. ur blog certainly is the truth coming from ur heart. I too felt very similar emotions when once I had went to a sunday service of my TPM relative. With a urban city life I’m coming from I too felt these people (wearing all white paticularly) very hypocritical. At that time I too felt these people were like pharisees in the gospel. I do remember my poor mom feelling very ashamed as her sarree was not a perfect white; it had blue flower print over it. (And at that time she stood out in the whole congregation). We were on a holiday and it didn’t made any sense travelling with all our wardrobe.

    Anyways what i want to tell u is that, with all our objections as we feel in our mortal bodies God is with them as he’s with us. TPM have been instrumental in bringing people towards Jesus. It’s founder Ramankutty or Pastor Paul was a Hindu convert whose testimony itself speaks of marvellous works Jesus is doing in India. And so is the existence TPM.

    You have ur objections to TPM. Fine. There are many other pentecostal sects who have greater associations with our lord spiritually and are strong in teaching the word of God; and which do not have stringent practices in matter of worship etc. Take care of what we speak, write; least it is held accountable against us in the day of our lord.

    Instead of defaming TPM or any other God’s children through ur writings, may God use you to preach the gospel and to reach the unreached.


  32. W’ll to share sum more thoughts for a beloved Atheist……

    The religious man does good things out of fear of judgment.
    That is how every false religion operates. They teach you to
    be good, in order to avoid judgment and to be rewarded in
    the next life! False Christianity preaches the same thing.
    Where the primary motivation for our obeying God is the fear of being judged, there we have a false Christianity.
    Jesus said, “If you love Me, keep My commandments” (Jn.14:15).

    while you see the fear of the lord in us, in TPM, in any other pentecostal sects or in christianity itself; what you don’t see is the deep love and affection we have for Our Master, Our Lord, Our Saviour Jesus Christ.


  33. if you don’t like the TPM so much, why don’t you suggest some ways they can improve, instead of talking so much bad things about their ways and practices?


  34. Greetings in the name of our lord Jesus Christ,
    As u all know we have come to the very last days.So satan has come with his full might against the truth.He is using many people to defame the truth and the true church[TPM].Let us therefore be vigilant to discern him and ask the lord to reveal the blessed truths in the Pentecostal doctrine.


  35. Dear All

    I was born in the (CPM) Pentecostal family. May God forgive me if i am against his words and will. I always come into the picture only if and when bible is misinterpreted or some speak against bible. I fight for the word of God. I am against denominations. When he appears, he not going to call people denomination wise. I read bible and follow bible only. TPM’s founder has taught something (Read a Book published by TPM on Pastor. Paul) which is not followed by TPM these days.

    During 1994 when computer was sold in a big way and Software development trainings were given in many places by APTECH and NIIT. At this point in time TPM was against children or youths studying computer. Many reasons were given, one among them is Antichrist and his number 666. Many who did not do the course then will surely be suffering and cursing the ministry policies. Many parents denied there children from learning the same. But now same church is using computers for there day to day work. Photo graphs were not let to be taken, Video cameras were not let to be used but we could see some changes now. I don’t say that what they do is wrong but my only concern is why don’t they think before they could say no or yes to the technology so that the church will not end up being criticized. Using TV, Radio as media to reach the world faster is denied is what worrying me. TPM need not see the TV but why shouldn’t they take that medium to reach to those we cannot reach to. We cannot reach our to Muslim houses that easily. We cannot reach out to a man who is in a hotel with a strange female like this we have many to whom we cannot reach to. Has God forsaken those who are running a Christian channel. Eg: Blessing TV Allen Paul and his wife are spiritually far superiors, God has asked him to start a TV channel.

    The problem with this church is that they say some think at one point of time and change it during later days (except for jewels and medicine). I still say it is a good church but for few important rules. There is a man of named Pastor. Manasseh who is doing the ministry according to bible (99%). Every one in the church know that many other brothers and pastors talk against him.

    There are people in the church saying “if you sit on the chair Holy spirit will not come upon you”. During the Annual convention we can see a very big gathering. The people gathered behind cannot see the preacher and we cannot find the same presence which find in the front. We can see people talking and playing. To avoid this screens can be used as display, which will enable the people behind to see and hear the sermon. This technology too is seen as a not to be used one.

    If X doctor can heal why should people go to the Y doctor. Most of the pastors are not powerful enough to heal the sick that is way people in the Pentecostal mission are seeking the literal Doctors for healing. We can see the Doctors who go to TPM giving suggestions (what to avoid what not to avoid) to the sick pastors. I heard Even blood is tested which a normal believer would not do as he is taught that way. My question here is why should they use Reading Glasses which is again a scientific invention, why shouldn’t they pray to God to heal their eyes. I have seen innocent kids dying without out medicine, this really does tarnish the precious name of our lord Jesus Christ. Jesus, when he was on this earth gave life to many (Talitha, the little girl, Lazarus…). A man of God who says no to medicine should be in a position to save/heal the life of his believer . We find a very little number of men of God.

    I too have suffered during my childhood days. I was suffering from tooth ache and ended up developing a swelling and pus in it. I was prayed for healing for months together by the pastors and brothers. One day it busted and pus came out, but the pus did not stop for months though the swelling disappeared. I was attending school with cotton sticking to it. Our students were keeping away from me. When it became serious my father’s elder brother who too is a TPM believer rushed me to the hospital and under doctor’s advise removed the tooth. The very second the pus stopped. This incident has left behind a scar on my cheek which is very disturbing whenever I see the TPM sisters, pastors and brothers go to the dentist to remove there teeth and fix dentures. With this scar, officially, I am unable to confidently face a video camera or stand on a stage to speak.

    The above is my Grievance and not to hurt anyone but people should think.

    Regards
    Simon


  36. Hi Rachel

    I have seen the blog about Pentecostal Mission and everywhere you mentioned why not women given preference and why not they preach and why they are quiet but if you have read bible for 20 years and if you know each and everything then you should understand that including men and women the whole church is called the bridegroom to the god and there is no point of significance for any humanbeing and here only god has the point of significance


  37. stop these arguments and try to seek GOD with fear
    don’t spread false comments and invite trouble to ur life
    GOD is mercifull and GOOD for all who seek HIM with whole heart


  38. CAN A CHRISTIAN WEAR JEWELS? WHAT IS GOD’S WILL?

    A) In Exodus 3:21,22 God commanded the Jews to ask the
    neighbours for Gold jewels.

    Then God did not ask them to carry them in skin bags
    (The Jews were basically shepherds and had plenty of
    animal skins) but asked to wear it upon their
    children.

    Why? Because God wanted His children to be blessed.
    God did not expect His children to lust for gold but
    to use them and be happy and focus on Him. God did not
    provide just for the basic needs but also gave them
    jewels to wear.

    B) Why then did God ask the Jews to remove the Jewels
    at the foot of the Mount?

    Because they disobeyed God and made a calf idol from
    their gold which He gave them to wear and so God
    punished them.

    C) Why did apostles Peter and Paul ask christians not
    to wear jewels?
    Because the new christians, in the past, were doing
    group adultery before their goddesses of fertility
    called Diana & Artemis. They used jewels, expensive
    clothing, hairdos etc., to seduce men into adultery.
    They did these immoral acts as an act of worship to
    their goddesses.

    Such people when they came to the church tried to
    continue the same practises. Therefore, Paul gave such
    a command.

    D) What is God’s will?
    God is unchanging as per Malachi 3:6. He wants us to
    seek Him and never to lust gold. Neither is His will
    to close jewellery shops.

    E) What do some Pentecostal believers say ?

    They say that an anointed christian should have things
    which they “need” and not the things which they
    “desire” like for example jewels.

    What is the fact? If you observe such pentecostals you
    can see the following:
    1) They work in overseas countries and earn in lacs
    per month.
    2) They purchase the best clothes.
    3) They live in houses with tiles and granites.
    4) They have the best leather handbags and hairclips.
    5) They do cosmetic treatment to their hair and hands.
    6) They eat varieties of food cooked in coconut milk.
    Just observe a TPM Pastor’s lunch.
    7) Instead of wearing jewels the proportionate value
    of money is stacked and stored in their bank accounts,
    to the tune of lacs, for their future !!

    Hence the above list shows very well that 1 to 7 does
    not belong to the category of “need” but belong to the
    category of “desire”.

    Thus some pentecostal believers have their own “pet”
    definition to the word “simplicity”. They also preach
    this to others absolutely unmindful of the truth that
    they themselves could not live what they preach.

    F) Moreover, some Pentecostal believers confuse between
    true desire and false desire. False desire is called
    lust. But Bible says that Jesus became poor in order
    for us to become rich as per 2 Cor 8:9. We might have
    failures, afflictions and persecutions in life but it
    is not God’s will for us to ask Him only for needs but
    also our desires as per Ps 37:4.

    G) Morover, “trusting” in jewels is different from
    “using” them. A person who trusts in jewels boasts
    about them. But a person who boasts about Christ &
    depends on Him at all times does not trust in the
    jewellery she wears.

    H) Remember, God sees the heart not the white saree.
    God sees the heart not the neck without jewels. Let us
    not be white-washed sepulchres !

    My suggestion to Pastors:
    So dear pastors pls do not command to remove jewels of
    believers. Instead teach them to live wisely amid
    wearing jewels.


  39. Dear all
    the blessed word of god that the true church will face tribulations is coming true. only the truth will be questioned and criticized. As a youngster in the TPM church,I have No Problems.I have known my God as my Friend,Guide And Everything through our doctrines.After all Christian life is not a bed of roses. People who advocate jewellery & other stuff do so bcoz of their reluctance to remove it.In all truth TPM provides adequate teachings to receive our Lord at His Coming. An individual will benefit from it according to his level of submission. Let us remember that no man is perfect & run our race looking to the author & finisher of our faith,Jesus Christ.


  40. i wanna answer susan on jewelery


  41. HI JISHA

    REMOVING JEWELS IS NOT THE PURPOSE OF LIFE. THERE IS MUCH MORE.

    IF REMOVING JEWELS IS THE PURPOSE OF LIFE GOD WOULD NOT HAVE GIVEN THE JEWELS TO THE ISRAELITES TO WEAR.

    JISHA, YOU MIGHT NOT WANT TO WEAR JEWELS BECAUSE YOU MIGHT THINK THAT REMOVING JEWELS IS YOUR PURPOSE IN LIFE.

    GOD HAS GREATER PURPOSES. HE LOOKS FOR LOVE, HOLINESS AND TO PREACH THE GOSPEL. THAT IS WHY HE ANOINTED EVERYONE WITH HIS HOLY SPIRIT.

    TPM WANTS TO PROJECT THEIR PIETY AND THEIR RIGHTEOUSNESS EXTERNALLY WITH WHITE DRESSES. GOD IS NOT INTERESTED IN THOSE EXTERNAL PIETY “DISPLAYS”.

    GOD WANTS YOU TO KNOW THAT YOU ARE A PRIEST WITH A FAR BETTER CALLING THAN AARON. BECAUSE AARON COULD NOT ENTER INTO THE MOST HOLY WITH CONFIDENCE. BUT IN CHRIST, WE CAN TAKE HIS BLOOD AND ENTER INTO THE MOST HOLY AND CALL THE FATHER AS “ABBA” CONFIDENTLY!!

    READ HEBREWS 4:16 AND HEB 10:19. REMEMBER, AARON DID NOT HAVE THE SAME CONFIDENCE AS WE HAVE IN CHRIST.

    TPM BELIEVERS LIKE TO SHOW OFF THIER PIETY WITH “WHITE” AND REMAIN IGNORANT OF THIS GREAT TRUTH. THEY ALSO LIKE TO BRAG ABOUT TPM WORKERS RATHER THAN TRY TO FULFILL THE “GREATER THAN AARON” PRIESTLY CALLING THAT GOD HAS FOR THEM.

    MAY GOD OPEN YOUR EYES.


  42. Hi, and How are u? Well I hope you are sitting down… but I am a minister in this ministry (TPM- or- NTC)-and very happy. Do u ask when I pray for you, well whenever God places You upon my heart, even in those silly times when we…as ministers/workers are at the mall shopping or simply having a good time. You see dear we are very normal and actually fulfilled. I may not be a “pastor” but have preached, led worship and led others to Christ. Once again I ask to look a little further out than India and see that things are not all as you say…please. You sound like a very educated person and thus I ask you to take the time, and see that the vast majority of the workers are there to serve all, be one with all and are fulfilling the vocation placed upon their lives. Are there hard times? Of course, life is life whether in a church or outside… and if you’d like please feel free to email me so we may discuss your points personally. happy serving Him. dennmore


  43. HI DENNMORE,

    WORKERS ARE THERE TO SERVE ALL AND ARE FULFILLING THE VOCATION PLACED UPON THEIR LIVES?

    COULD YOU PLS CLARIFY WHAT IS THAT VOCATION?

    1. IS IT CREATING A SUPERIOR IDENTITY FOR TPM IN ORDER TO PROMOTE THE DENOMINATION ALONG WITH ITS FINANCIAL REVENUES?

    2. IS IT PROMOTING AN EXTERNAL “WHITE” RELIGION OF PHARISEES RATHER THAN EQUIP THE BELIEVERS TO KNOW THAT EVERY BELIEVER IS A PRIEST WITH ACCESS INTO THE MOST HOLY PLACE?

    3. IS IT TO BRAG AND BOAST (IN SERMONS & STUDIES) ABOUT THE TOTALLY UNBIBLICAL THEORY OF MELCHIZEDEK CALLING WHICH THE WORKERS SEEM TO HAVE AND THE THEORY WHICH SERVES TO ENSLAVE PEOPLE TO THE TPM (FLAG) IDENTITY?

    4. IS IT PROCLAIMING TO BE APOSTLES WHEN 99.99% OF THE WORKERS DO NOT PERFORM MIRACLES AS PER 2 COR 12:12 AS A PROOF OF THEIR CALLING?

    5. IS IT TO TEACH UNBIBLICALLY THAT MARRIED PASTORS OF OTHER GROUPS ARE INFERIOR TO TPM WORKERS WHEN THE BIBLE SAYS IN 1 COR 9:5 THAT THE APOSTLES WERE MARRIED?

    6. IS IT TO CALL THE MEDICAL PROFESSION AS UNGODLY WHEN THOUSANDS OF DOCTORS AND NURSES IN TPM ARE GIVEN COMMUNION REGULARLY ? (MAYBE TPM WANTS THEIR TITHES!!)

    7. IS IT TO CLAIM THAT MARRIAGE TAKES A PERSON’S DEVOTION AWAY FROM CHRIST AND STILL CONDUCTING MARRIAGES FOR BELIEVERS IN THE TPM FAITHOME?

    WHAT IS YOUR VOCATION? MAN MAY SEE ONLY YOUR WHITE DRESS AND YOUR TONGUES-SPEAKING BUT GOD SEES THE TPM’S DISTORTIONS OF THE HEART.


  44. Susan,
    Can you explain what the Pastor Alwin crisis was?


  45. dear i have read all good as well bad feed back abt T.P.M church. let me explan abt that, actually this church has good vision.they have well established spirituall leaders to lead their believers.their docterine is pure.wearing garments or white dresses are not only the main stream of their docterine,these are some aspects.this church congregation is so good.so believe them,ands grow more spiritually.lets ready for our 2 coming of jesus christ………may god bless u all……..

    philip sam,physiotherapist


  46. Dear Pothachan

    Greetings in Jesus’ name. Philip Sam without seems to brush all the confusions in TPM under the carpet and pretend as if everything is OK. This is the mentality that refuses to repent. God hates such a stiff neckedness which is seen in TPM for nearly five decades. They never change.

    Regarding Pastor Alwin, he was the one who created the typical doctrines of celibacy which TPM uses to create an unbiblical doctrinal identity for themselves.

    Pas. Alwin himself fell in sin and was excommunicated.

    The objective that we write is to inform people of TPM’s contradictions so that they stop defending the workers distortions. That will also open a way for the workers to repent. In addition, that opens a way for the believers to start to serve God rather than remain enslaved to the workers. That is the objective. We love the TPM workers. We would only desire that they shed their distortions and their enslavement of believers. Pls understand that.

    Those who highlight errors will seek forgiveness and go ahead to serve God but those who sit and criticize the people who highlight will not do anything for God and will remain defending the distortions of workers and will be accountable on the day of judgement.

    If you still expect the believers to be enslaved to the workers and thereby prevent them from serving God as a priest, it is you not us who will be accountable on the day of judgement.

    God is not interested in people sitting back and doing worker-glorification but instead He expects every believer to understand his/her calling and move forward to preach the gospel and reach the lost. That was why He baptized every TPM believer with the Holy Spirit. Just beware lest you strive against God and His purposes for the sake of glorifying TPM.

    The time is now to stop lazily hearing sermons after sermons every Sunday morning and instead rise up to reach the millions who are lost.

    The time is ripe not for the promotion of denomination but by the power of God’s Spirit to reach the thousands of villages in search of the lost.


  47. dear susan,
    there is no such stiff neckedness for us. we doesnt need to brush up any thing by any sugar coated sentences.the docterine abt holy and zion are precious,which is difficult to follow.but if u follow that u can lead a victorious life.we never say that only our denomination has vision and mission.we do respect all denominations,we all are in bondage of the love of jesus christ..thats it..lets not dispute each others. we doesnt need to critisize others…god bless u……


  48. Hi All especially Susan and Rachel,

    Read here that CPM pastors allegedly own BMWs.
    If true, this is strange.


  49. Dear Friends, Greetings…

    EXPECTING SYMPATHY AND PITY FROM THE BELIEVERS, THE TPM WORKERS SAY WITH TEARS, “WE PRAY CONTINUALLY FOR YOU. WE HAVE GIVEN UP OUR MARRIAGE AND WE ARE HERE TO SERVE YOU FULL TIME”.

    THE ABOVE SHOWS THAT THEY TREAT ANOINTED BELIEVERS AS SPIRITUAL KIDS. THEY ARE RELUCTANT TO LET THE BELIEVERS GROW UP AS PRIESTS AND USE THE PRIVILEGE OF A GOD-GIVEN CONFIDENT ACCESS INTO THE MOST HOLY PLACE AFFORDED BY THE BLOOD OF CHRIST.

    THUS, THE CONSECRATION OF WORKERS HAS BEEN GREATLY GLORIFIED INSTEAD OF GLORIFYING THE POWER IN THE BLOOD OF CHRIST. JUST BEWARE BRETHREN. GOD DOES NOT LIKE SUCH AN IDOLATRY OF WORKERS AND BELIEVER-CHILDISHNESS.

    THE TPM BELIEVERS DO NOT EVEN KNOW TO SAY “PRAISE THE LORD” TO OTHER CHRISTIANS. SUCH IS THEIR PRIDE. AND THEY CALL IT SEPARATED-LIFE!!

    JESUS SEPARATED HIMSELF FROM SIN NOT FROM SINNERS. BUT THESE TPM WORKERS SEPARATE THEMSELVES FROM OTHER SAVED CHRISTIANS. SUCH SEEMS TO BE THEIR HAUGHTINESS. REMEMBER, GOD RESISTS THE PROUD.

    DO NOT BE CARRIED AWAY BY THE BLESSINGS THAT TPM PEOPLE HAVE. JESUS SAID THAT HIS FATHER BLESSES EVEN THE WICKED WITH RAIN. SO BLESSING IS NO TEST FOR TRUTH.

    TPM TALKS ABOUT “SEPARATED-LIFE” ONLY TO PREVENT THEIR BELIEVERS FROM MINGLING IN UNITY WITH OTHER DENOMINATIONS. AND ALSO TO PROTECT THEIR SUPPLY OF REVENUES!!

    JESUS DID NOT SUFFER AND DIE TO CREATE “TPM IDENTITY” BUT TO KEEP ALL DENOMINATIONS “UNITED”. BEWARE OF TPM WHICH TRIES TO SPLIT THE “UNITY” IN THE UNIVERSAL BRIDE CHURCH. THEY WILL BE ACCOUNTABLE.

    susan.george2002@yahoo.com


  50. Hi Susan,
    In your words, I can see
    HATRED, VARIANCE, WRATH, STRIFE…..
    (Galatian 5: 19-20)

    God is not interested in people sitting back and doing worker-nullifying but instead He expects every believer to understand his/her calling and move forward to preach the gospel and reach the lost. That was why He baptized YOU with the Holy Spirit. Just beware lest you strive against God and His purposes for the sake of glorifying your work.

    Thanks
    Geo


  51. Hi,

    I was born in a CPM heavy family. Was crazy about everything CPM until I was born again when I was 24. The good Lord who is ever faithful showed significant deviations from the Word that CPM has in its teachings. They are quite smart in hiding the major one where they say 144,000 on Mount Zion in Revelations are the TPM workers. It is preached to and believed by every church member. But it is difficult to get a hand of this doctrine in print unless you get the church journals like “Voice of..”.

    Anyway, I’d like to say that my life in the Lord is super and I wish to get even closer to him. But this is not possible through communion with TPM as the teachings are just instructions on holiness/good living with human efforts. Btw, very few are born again there and are just deceived into thinking they are alright in God’s sight.

    Susan, don’t get upset thinking about the workers and other TPMers, it is not worth it. The Lord, His ways and His work in the world outside is worth putting your life in. You can always pray for them.


  52. Hi

    TPM pastors quote Ps 110:3,4 to support their theory
    that workers are called after the order of melchizedek
    as they remain unmarried. They quote the following verses;

    Ps 110: 3,4 says, “[3] Thy people shall be willing in
    the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from
    the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy
    youth.
    [4] The LORD hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art
    a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.

    Explanation of truth:

    In verse 3 we see terms like “thy people” and those who are like
    “youth”. But Verse 3 never says that “thy people” or
    “youth” are after the order of Melchizedek.
    Instead Verse 4 says that only “Thou”, which refers to Jesus
    Christ alone, is appointed after the order of melchizedek.

    The word “Thou” in Hebrew is in singular and refers to
    Jesus alone. Jesus does not have CPM workers or anyone
    as successors in the order of Melchizedek.

    Hebrews 7:23 says that once Aaron dies, someone else has to occupy his office. As per the Mosaic Law his eldest son becomes High Priest. This continues through the generations of Aaron. But Hebrews 7: 24 says that since Jesus does not die, His High Priesthood status is not passed to anyone else.

    This clearly proves that CPM pastors are not in the order of Melchizedek. Only Jesus is.

    Lets stand for truth. (susan.george2002@yahoo.com)


  53. Hey Little Susan… Praise the Lord !!!

    You are here too?? Where do you get all these info to copy and paste?? I hope time and again you have recieved replies to exactly all these of your postings.

    Regards,
    Jim.


  54. And to Rachel to whom this blog belongs…

    Rachel, so u really believe theres no God?? I want to know that very clearly from you in “YES” or “NO” and if “YES” why?? and if “NO” then what makes you blieve now?

    Regards,
    Jim.


  55. Hi Jim,

    I’m amused at ur question. U remind me so much of someone I know.
    To answer ur question.
    Yes! I’m an atheist.
    Ever since I started the blog I have been an atheist.
    If there are some posts that seem ambigous or otherwise please point them out to me. I’ll change it!
    And about my “belief.”
    I got disillusioned with Christianity and lost my belief.
    I haven’t gained any new beliefs and don’t see the need for it either, so I remain an atheist.


  56. And to all the other Christians who have posted here.

    I want to thank some of you for your gracious posts and ability to empathise.
    I want you to check out

    http://www.truewomanhood.wordpress.com

    http://undermuchgrace.blogspot.com

    if you want to know what I think true christianity should be about


  57. Hey Rachel,

    So you are an athiest. That would allow me to conclude that you just popped up into existence or may be your parents.. or may be your grandparents?? or… your great-great-great grand parents….. who exactly do I conclude to have been popped up into existence from nowhere?? In that case, I am very sure you would quote the Darwin’s theory to support what you think is right. Allright??

    Jim.


  58. Rachel,

    You say that you got disillusioned with Christianity and lost your belief. In that case, lets no more talk about Christianity. Just forget about it.

    Lets talk about simple facts of life beginning from your views on “What do you think about your existence?? “, “Where do you think you have descended from??”,

    And most of all you claim that “you have not gained any new beliefs and don’t see the need for it either, so you remain an atheist”

    Now as an athiest, you say you have no belief is contradictory. To claim that you are an athiest, you must have strongly supported principles and belief; rather, reasons.

    Now take an example: if I am to say that Internet is not working on my machine, I need to have complete knowledge of how exactly the connectivity works, otherwise if I call the technical support, the support engineer will explain me the things only for me to reallise that the LAN cable was a bit loosely connected.

    Conclusion: Technically if you view as an engineer, the internet was up and was working but the LAN cable wasnt fixed up properly, which caused interruption in the TCP/IP packets from arriving at the port and prevented a complete connectivity.

    If an engineer has to claim that internet isnt working, then internet users of the entire node of that area, say Pune, should be calling the customer support with their grievances.

    Now lets come back to my first statement “if I am to say that Internet is not working on my machine, I need to have complete knowledge of how exactly the connectivity works”

    This simple law applies to you. You must know how many hairs are upon every head, every thought of every human heart, every detail of history, every atom within every rock…nothing is hidden from your eyes… you should know the intimate details of the secret love-life of the fleas on the back of the black cat of Napolean’s great-grandmother. To make the absolute statement “There is no God.” You must have absolute knowledge that there isn’t one.

    Lets forget about your background i.e you were a Christian, and lets not talk anything from Bible as of now. No hard and fast rules. Be not offended if I’m going too much. My sincere apologies if so.

    Cheers !!!
    Jim.


  59. TPM BELIEVERS LIKE TO APPEAR VERY RATIONALISTIC & INTELLECTUAL BUT THEY DO NOT WANT TO ADMIT THE IRRATIONALISM THAT IS PRESENT IN THEIR “PET” TPM DOCTRINES.

    IT IS A FACT THAT GOD ANOINTS PEOPLE WITH HIS HOLY SPIRIT UNIVERSALLY. MILLIONS OF CATHOLICS AND PROTESTANTS ARE RECEIVING THE HOLY SPIRIT WITH THE EVIDENCE OF SPEAKING IN TONGUES.

    GOD ANOINTS PEOPLE IRRESPECTIVE OF THEIR DENOMINATIONS BECAUSE HE HAD PROMISED THE ANOINTING BY HIS GRACE.

    HOWEVER, STRANGELY, TPM WORKERS LEAD THE BELIEVERS INTO THIS ANOINTING EXPERIENCE AND WHEN THE BELIEVERS RECEIVE THE ANOINTING AND EXPERIENCE THE JOY THE WORKERS DO THE FOLLOWING:

    1) INTRODUCE UNBIBLICAL DOCTRINES AND SCRIPTURAL MISINTERPRETATIONS.

    THE BELIEVER BEING UNABLE TO DISCERN THE ERROR JUST BELIEVES THE MISINTERPRETATIONS AS TRUTH.

    LITTLE DO THEY REALISE THAT GOD GIVES THIS JOYFUL EXPERIENCE OF THE ANOINTING TO EVERYONE WHO ASKS IRRESPECTIVE OF DENOMINATIONS.

    MAY GOD DELIVER THE TPM BELIEVERS FROM SUCH A DECEPTION.

    REJOICE IN THE HOLY SPIRIT. BUT ALSO DO CHECK THE TPM DOCTRINES WHETHER THEY ARE TRUTH WITH THE HELP OF THE HOLY SPIRIT.


  60. TPM BELIEVERS LIKE TO APPEAR VERY RATIONALISTIC & INTELLECTUAL BUT THEY DO NOT WANT TO ADMIT THE IRRATIONALISM THAT IS PRESENT IN THEIR “PET” TPM DOCTRINES.

    IT IS A FACT THAT GOD ANOINTS PEOPLE WITH HIS HOLY SPIRIT UNIVERSALLY. MILLIONS OF CATHOLICS AND PROTESTANTS ARE RECEIVING THE HOLY SPIRIT WITH THE EVIDENCE OF SPEAKING IN TONGUES.

    GOD ANOINTS PEOPLE IRRESPECTIVE OF THEIR DENOMINATIONS BECAUSE HE HAD PROMISED THE ANOINTING BY HIS GRACE.

    HOWEVER, STRANGELY, TPM WORKERS LEAD THE BELIEVERS INTO THIS ANOINTING EXPERIENCE AND WHEN THE BELIEVERS RECEIVE THE ANOINTING AND EXPERIENCE THE JOY THE WORKERS DO THE FOLLOWING:

    1) INTRODUCE UNBIBLICAL DOCTRINES AND SCRIPTURAL MISINTERPRETATIONS.

    THE BELIEVER BEING UNABLE TO DISCERN THE ERROR JUST BELIEVES THE MISINTERPRETATIONS AS TRUTH.

    LITTLE DO THEY REALISE THAT GOD GIVES THIS JOYFUL EXPERIENCE OF THE ANOINTING TO EVERYONE WHO ASKS IRRESPECTIVE OF DENOMINATIONS.

    MAY GOD DELIVER THE TPM BELIEVERS FROM SUCH A DECEPTION.

    REJOICE IN THE HOLY SPIRIT. BUT ALSO DO CHECK THE TPM DOCTRINES WHETHER THEY ARE TRUTH WITH THE HELP OF THE HOLY SPIRIT.
    (susan.george2002@yahoo.com)


  61. Susan…

    You and your tpm… Now please stop it and put a full-stop to your denominations and doctrines and all those stupidity.

    Shame on you lil lady… you are a blot on Chrstianity and its very basic principles. I got saved last year and go to a Methodist church here and your posts is literally getting on to my nerves. You are condaminating the whole purpose of Christ’s life. Tell me in what way should I take these postings of yours as my spiritual edification??

    Stop these nonsnse posts once and for all and help an athiest to know the truth as I was once upon a time. I have a similar testimony which Sis Rachel shares here in her blog. Once I happen to this Methodist Church and happen to give an “Athiest’s Exam” by a pastor and the whole perception about my creator and purpose of my life was changed forever.

    Thank you sis. Susan for stopping your good-for-nothing posts once and for all.

    Anil.


  62. And what is it that bro Jim wants to express here?? Trying to prove existence of God scietifically?? You cant do that since Science fails to prove itself spiritually. Its the biggest blow on Science. Science is a subset of Spirituality.

    Athiests say something else. They say theres has no relation between them at all.

    But I can prove it in here.. Let first Jim express what he wants to say…

    Anil.


  63. Anil and Jim

    Do you realise how many souls TPM lets into hell because they enslave the believers and thereby prevent the believers from carrying the gospel to the lost?

    When TPM believers are called to be “priests” the workers boast about their false “melchizedek priesthood” and deceive the believers from a great calling as stated in 1 Peter 2:5,9.

    Because of this deception TPM believers cannot even realise their call, read the Bible, meditate the Bible, prepare gospel truths and share them to the lost.

    Come on wake up you sleepers!! Start awakening the TPM believers instead of writing lousy mails about me.


  64. Susan,

    Dont you think this is the same content on your mail to me too??? I wonder… how expert you are with CtrlC + CtrlV.

    I think you have got the right answers to your fanatic mails… Here we have some learnt and wise men to discuss athiesm both scientifically and spiritually. We dont need religious-fanatics like you here. Please stop posting stupidity.

    “ChristianSpeak” as you know, makes a person seem to be more stupid to an athiest. Dont you prove it here too, as you have already proved yourself a fool in many of your posting in many of the blogs discussion forums. SO STOP IT AND SEEK WISDOM.

    Jim.


  65. Hi Rachel,

    Back to the point.. I need your responses before I post mine… Do you believe in Darwin’s theory?? and if yes, then how do you justify it?? Remember.. it was just a theory and not a proven fact.

    And to Bro. Anil, please focus on your spiritual edification. Reproaches and accusations are a part of Devil’s work against Chrstianity. Dont you ever mind them. Lets focus on our discussions.

    So you say that the existence of God cant be proven scietifically. Your views are exactly the same but I never began justifying the same. All those who believe in Darwins theory must realise the fact that it wasnt a fact but just a theory based on best of his imaginations on evolution of mankind. what do you think on that??


  66. Jim, Jimson & Anil

    I am not too comfortable with your comments to Susan. You might not agree with her views.
    Pl remember that you can abuse a person’s views, but never abuse the person.

    About my own atheist beliefs, I really wouldn’t care less about proving them…I am what I am. Its only theists who have to believe in something..
    So as far as Charles Darwin is concerned I did read the theory of evolution when I was in school. The only thing I recognise as an absolute fact is “survival of the fittest,” much as I wish it wasn’t so.
    My lack of ideology is a bit of a problem to some of myChristian friends.
    If I really have some way of thinking that vaguely resembles an ideology, it is that I am a big fan of the writings of George Bernard Shaw & Oscar Wilde.
    So I really cannot be drawn into an ideological debate on why I’m an atheist.


  67. HI FRIENDS

    TPM BELIEVERS ARE DESPERATE TO SHIFT THE DISCUSSION FROM BEING EXPOSED CONCERNING THEIR DOCTRINAL MISINTERPRETATIONS AND THEIR “PET” LIES.

    THEY CRAVE TO DISCUSS SOMETHING WHICH HELPS THEM EVADE FROM THE REAL “ISSUES” FACING TPM.

    JUST BE AWARE OF THE “TPM’S STRATEGIES”!! THESE TPM FANATS HAVE NOT EVEN ANSWERED A SINGLE POINT OF MINE REGARDING JEWELS.

    NOW PLEASE READ THE FOLLOWING AND BE BLESSED:

    We must understand the following crucial truths, which TPM suppresses:

    1) Firstly, the High Priesthood status of the Old Testament temple was passed down only to the “firstborns” in Aaron’s family.

    Hence, Aaron and his first son Eleazer who is alive and then Eleazer’s first son and so on and on would ONLY get the High priesthood position. No other descendents in Aaron’s family are eligible for that position. Only the “Firstborns” get that position.

    Similarly, Jesus became THE firstborn by being raised from the dead as per Acts 13:33. He is also the High Priest in the heavenly temple as per Heb 4:15.

    Jesus is the ONLY firstborn as per Romans 8:29 which says, “For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.”

    2) Secondly, the High Priesthood position in the Old Testament did not belong just to one person but instead was indeed passed down to the next generation. Why?

    Because the High Priests are humans and they died.

    But the High Priesthood status of Jesus is not passed down to anybody as He is the
    Immortal Son of God as per Hebrews 7: 23, 24.

    CPM’S STRANGE CLAIM:

    But CPM presumptuously and falsely call themselves as descendents of such a High Priest!! Jesus does not pass his High Priest position to anybody, as He is the “ONLY firstborn” as per Romans 8:29. Only the Old Testament High Priests passed down their position as they died.

    3) Thirdly, TPM workers say that they are high priests after the order of Melchizedek and therefore they are very special. However, what does the Bible say?

    a) Heb 7:17 says, “You (Jesus) are a priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek.”

    b) Heb 6:20 says, “…He (Jesus) has become a high priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek.”

    c) Even in Psalms 110:4 we read, “You (Jesus) are a priest forever,
    in the order of Melchizedek.”

    WHAT IS THE TRUTH? Thus, the above verses clearly state that it was Jesus who alone is the High Priest and there is absolutely not a single verse in reference to celibate workers or anyone else being called as Melchizedek Priests. TPM presumptuously propagates a lie without quoting any verse in particular.

    (susan.george2002@yahoo.com)


  68. Hey Jim and Jimson is same .. its me…

    Being an athiest without any reason??? So you have no justification on why you are an athiest… hmmm its complex rather a baseless belief. I think you are confused of wheather you are really an athiest or an agnostic…

    Darwin really said that “” survival of the fitte…..blah blah” but do you really think it needs to be a registered theory as such?? It is a fact of life…

    And as far as debate is concerned, I dont want to draw you into an “IDEOLOGICAL” debate as you say on why you are an atheist… but rather, I want to challenge your views factually and scientifically. Because I told you at the first place… “Lets forget about Chrstianity and Bible” and I’m not going to refer or quote anything from Bible to prove what I want you to realise.

    And as far as Susan is concerned, I think you are new to her. Everyone has got the right to express thier views and I admit that.. But these are not views on the subject of athiesm at all. She is desperately trying to prove how fanatic she is against some tpm and its so called doctrines.. Anil is a methodist, and I seldom go. “Its not mandatory for a true christian to be a member of some church, and every church-goers are not true christians…. She a desperate emotional fool trying to be smart and popular on the internet. Because if she really had some fear of God, she would spent more time in the presence of God than on internet. Now what all else she does is out of question…


  69. I’m not an agnostic. I’m not wondering whether God exists or not. I’m an atheist. I don’t believe in God.
    See, I was a Christian, being groomed to be a missionary or missionary’s wife (I suspect). So when I no longer believe in Christianity, I have nothing left.

    Maybe in a few years, I might have an ideology of some kind. At the moment I’m to caught up with life. Justification…..
    I am not attracted to any thing other politics (non-religious, election-based politics) and business journalism.


  70. About Susan. I am not too sure why she is so vehement in her disapproval of TPM. But I think it would be better as Christians if you extended grace to her and not criticism. But then again I don’t know her or have had any relationship with her, so you maybe right.
    As a secular person, I feel she is more pitied than censored. Im guessing she must have had some bitter experiences with the TPM, hence her strong reactions.
    But are there other forums where such things are being discussed? I would love to read them


  71. Yes, Jim spends more time in God’s presence. Maybe he spends many hours before the internet (in God’s presence!!).

    You can very well see the frustration and desperation of Jim in trying to cover up the doctrinal misinterpretations of TPM.

    He has not answered a single point when the TPM misinterpretations are exposed.

    Rather than answer (because it seems he does not have an answer) he has settled for accusations and evasions.

    Many have written to me identifying the cunning strategy of Jim.

    Hope he admits his erroneous approach and repents before God with humility.


  72. Susan,
    You can disagree with Jim’s views, but personal attacks on him or how he spends his time is not in good taste. I also find the position of a moderator distasteful. I’m sure we can agree to disagree and debate in calmer tones.

    Rachel


  73. Dear Moderator Rachel,

    I express truths as a counter to TPM’s misinterpretations. But instead of giving an intellectual counter, some like Jim have chosen to use this site to do the following:

    – muffle the voice of truth by accusations.
    – Avoid giving a reply based on scripture.
    – Evade the topic of TPM’s distortions and accuse my motives.

    This is a strategy usually seen adopted in TPM to counter other denominations when TPM’s lies are exposed. It is no wonder some TPM believers also use that.

    I do not have any bitter experiences with TPM. Jim would like to paint it that way to discredit the validity of my arguments.

    I had made my position very clear earlier in this blog (10 Dec ’08). I love TPM people but I debate only their blatant scriptural misinterpretations in an objective manner.

    Now this Jim comes from no where to disturb that process. Hope my dear friends understand that.

    More to follow on the so called TPM distortion and misunderstanding on “Divine Healing”…

    God bless you all!!


  74. Hi Rachel,

    So you say God doesnt exists… But then for your belief, you need to justify the cause of your existence… Only then will I be able to atleast try and have an intellectual debate on SOMETHING that “God doesnt exists”…

    Make this an intellectual debate than someting based on your personal opinion. Ask yourself…. the statement “God doesnt exists” isnt that your personal opinion and not at all a fact ???

    And yes… this tpm might be having distortions in thier doctrines. But so is the same reaction from every denomination for each other.. isnt that so or am I wrong anywhere?? A Muslim friend of mine in Jeddah (Yemeni National) who studied with with me in Symbiosis says “Christianity is highly indoctrinated with claims of Christ to be son of God, but He was just a prophet !!!!!”…. And when I discussed the same with him further, I learnt that they believe in everything; His birth, performing miracles, His life and the His second coming. But they DONT believe that He really died on the cross !!!!!! They say He never tasted death like Enoch and Elijah…. and in the end days He’s going to come… And most of all he was so expert that he proved BIBLE wrong by showing me many discrepancies and miscalculations and CDs by some “Zakir Naik” to prove that Koran is the real ‘word of God’. Same is with the belief of Jews. They say Christ is yet to come. I have come a loong loong way LIVING these types of discussions. But it has only increased my trust in Jesus more and more.

    What I want to conclude is… every denomination MIGHT be infested with distortions in thier doctrines. But dont you think God to be the best judge (sorry… you dont believe in Him) Can we do anything about that?? Now if Susan says that tpm has false doctrines, can she deny the fact that other protestant pastors possess bunglows, cars and acres of lands to thier name unlike tpm which has got building and lands to thier trust, where no individual pastors are benefitted??? They have got every facelities you can think of which an ultra-rich person possess and that not even a single naya paisa is hard-earned money but tieth of common-man-blievers??? Dr PK Yuhana is one of the best examples of those shameless pastors who was rightly raided by income tax guys and was convicted for misappropriating missionary funds from abroad. In contrast, many tpm centers are raided often but have you seen even a single headlines in the newspaper??? thats because they are clear with everything… Nothing belongs to an individual or any pastor.

    What I see is Christ said leave your family and property and follow me.. but never says dont ever marry.. OFCOURSE YOU CAN MARRY…. every good believer who follows Christ is a saint and has got the status of a priest (thats what Bible says and is taught by every tpm pastors)…. But if you see.. Christ remained a celibate (unless you believe in the holy crap of Dan Brown who was not a historian but just a novelist). There are fanatics (fanatics FOR CHRIST) like St Paul who remained celibate like Christ with a great zeal to LIVE a life like Christ was a consecrated servant of God. Thats all I can see… tpm pastors chose the BEST way to follow Him, by setting an example to LIVE LIKE HIM.

    I have seen and met how married pastors come to believer’s house for visiting. They sit and do chit chatting about this and that. They go on discussing useless crap of this world, clap and laugh. They discuss about thier children’s future and worry about them. They say an open ‘NO’ to thier senior pastors on transferring them as thier children’s education is affected. Obedience is a distance dream inthier system. Thier children watch TV immediately after the Sunday meeting. (I’m not advocating that watching TV is bad but movies??? !!!!, Harry Potter???!!!! (Which promotes witchcraft)). I have also seen that the children of pastors turn out to be the most naughty and commit sins beyond anyone’s imagination…. Jesus said “Those who are dead may go and bury thier dead” These shameless pastors come under this catagory of dead people… … Frankly my perception is…. any tpm sunday school student would be more God-fearing than any of these shameless pastors… Again I dont want to discuss further on this… I dont want to judge anyone…. because what I have learnt from all these years of such discussion is.. that this is devil’s work… I dont want to promote this kind of accusation-game… I am not defending or attacking some church’s belief or doctrines.

    Same is my advise to Susan… Please stop it.. This will not help anyone anyway.. but will give rise to hatred alone…. thats it… The Word of God is compared to 2-edged sword… Let God alone be the judge… She says “Jim comes from nowhere to disturb the process”… I mean… process of what???

    Anyways… Rachel please be back to our discussions…

    Jim.


  75. Hi Brother Jim…

    I’ve been readig these for a quite loong time and you asked the right question…. “process of what ??” I have the answer for it.. “the process of promoting evil by encouraging hatred among us as you rightly said” This is truly devil’s work.. At the first place I was completely shaken on my stand but now I am comfortable… Thanx Jim…

    And yea… Jim have you read Koran anytime?? what is it that they claim about Sodom and Gomorrah??

    Anil


  76. WHAT IS DIVINE HEALING?

    1) Jesus heals the sick even now as a sign to prove
    that He is God and Saviour. This healing was to draw
    people towards salvation and not to make doctors lose
    business.

    2) God has appointed Doctors, Judges, Teachers,
    Lawyers etc., for these people are principalities and
    powers appointed by God Himself.(Rom 13:1-4)

    3) A doctor only treats but it is God who heals. One
    ought not to claim that a doctor heals. Likewise a
    teacher only teaches but wisdom comes from God.

    4) God never demeans the role of a doctor when He
    heals the sick people. As Jesus said that a sick man
    needs a physician, man has to use the offices of a
    doctor just as he does use the offices of a policeman
    or a teacher etc.,

    5) CPM claims that doctors are sinners but sadly give
    communion to believers who are doctors. Moreover, it
    is interesting to note that these doctor believers are
    never asked to renounce their profession either!!

    6) The gift of healing is not to heal all the sick
    people in the world but to provide an opportunity to
    the sick to see the love of Christ amid a background
    of suffering.

    7) A tablet or a medicine is matter + wisdom. Both
    come from God for every good gift and every perfect
    gift comes from the Father of lights.

    8) Our trust ought not to be on doctors or medicines
    but in Christ who is the Lord of all health.

    9) I am yet to hear a single verse in the scripture
    from a CPM scholar who claims that people who were
    surgically operated will never be able to see the face
    of the Father in heaven !! This I believe is a
    fabricated doctrine to project CPM as superior to
    other pentecostal denominations. God gives grace to
    the humble.

    Now, the act of possessing wealth and blessings is no sin be it a worker or a believer. Maybe TPM believes so in a contradictory manner.

    The problem is that TPM claims to be in “faith” and “simplicity” when they are contradictory in their practise.

    The problem is not wealth but the inconsistency in thenlack of practise. They preach but not practise. (See blog on Nov 1, 2008)


  77. on January 7, 2009 at 5:14 am rachel varghese

    FIRSTLY, JIM’S ARGUMENT GOES LIKE THE FOLLOWING:

    PREMISE NO. 1: ALL DENOMINATIONS HAVE MISINTERPRETATIONS.

    PREMISE NO.2 : TPM ALSO HAS MISINTERPRETATIONS.

    CONCLUSION: SO DO NOT EXPOSE THE MISINTERPRETATIONS OF TPM.

    JIM’S ARGUMENTS HAS THE FOLLOWING FLAWS:

    1. IN PREMISE 1, JIM HAS CONFUSED BETWEEN PROSPERITY AND DOCTRINAL MISINTERPRETATIONS. HE HAS NOT PROVED THE DOCTRINAL MISINTERPRETATIONS OF OTHER DENOMINATIONS.

    2. HENCE HIS CONCLUSION IS FALSE. AND SUSAN’S CASE IS STRONG.

    SECONDLY, JIM HAS NOT UNDERSTOOD THE FOLLOWING MESSAGES WHICH SUSAN IS CONVEYING:

    NO. 1: TPM IS A WORKER-GLORIFYING CULT.
    NO. 2: TPM’S SCRIPTURAL MISINTERPRETATIONS ARE DESIGNED TO PROMOTE WORKER-GLORIFICATION.
    NO.3 : TPM’S EXTERNAL WHITE-SHOW IS DESIGNED TO CREATE A TPM IDENTITY WHICH IS UNBIBLICAL.

    WHAT ARE THE CONSEQUENCES OF NO. 1, 2 AND 3:

    1. THIS WORKER-GLORIFICATION LEADS TO ENSLAVEMENT OF BELIEVERS TO THE WORKERS.

    2. PROMOTES AN EXTERNAL SHOW OF RELIGION.

    3. MAKES BELIEVERS SUCKLING BABES TO DEPEND ON THE WORKERS RATHER THAN USE THE AUTHORITY IN THE NAME OF JESUS AS PER MARK 16:17 TO CAST DEMONS AND HEAL THE SICK.

    4. MAKES BELIEVERS TO DEPEND ON THE SERMONS OF WORKERS FOR WORDS OF ENCOURAGEMENT AND KNOWLEDGE RATHER THAN LISTEN TO THE HOLY SPIRIT AS PER 1 JOHN 2:27.

    5. MAKES BELIEVERS LUKEWARM SUNDAY-WORSHIPPERS AND THUS PREVENT THEM FROM DOING THE MINISTRY OF PROCLAIMING THE GOSPEL WITH BURDEN FOR SOULS.

    6. MAKE BELIEVERS DEPEND ON THE INTERCESSION OF WORKERS AND THUS LOSE FOCUS ON THEIR PERSONAL FASTING AND PRAYERS.

    CONCLUSION: HENCE WHEN SUSAN HIGHLIGHTS THE MISINTERPRETATIONS OF TPM LET US READ & LISTEN TO THAT, ASK THE HELP OF THE HOLY SPIRIT AND LET US SERVE GOD RATHER THAN DEPEND ON TPM.

    GOD BLESS YOU ALL ESPECIALLY THE FOUNDER OF THIS BLOG SITE.


  78. Uffff… Shes again into the same stuff… I’m sure Rachel.. u must be enjoying her stuff a lot… otherwise u would have already banned her from posting these with 2 reasons:

    First: you are an athiest and has nothing to do with Christianity or any other religion. tpm is nowhere when it comes to a whole big cloud of religions that is there in the world today…

    Second: Her debate has got nothing fruitful in defending or attacking the main stream debate of “Athiesm”… Anyways… its all your blog and you have the right of moderation… All the best !!!


  79. St Paul never wrote I Cor for any workers but he wrote for believers. But if a believer wants to be a Christ-Fanatic like St. Paul, is there any restriction??

    All the tpm pastors are believers who CHOSE to be a Christ-Fanatics like St. Paul and since they have consecrated their life, they are living saintly life and serving as pastors.. That all…

    And frankly… these idea of any tpm pastors saying that “anyone surgically operated…. blah blah..” is a complete nonsense.. I have never heard any pastors quoting or teaching that way. This might have been a tpm pastors personal opinion but was NEVER A TPM DOCTRINE.

    And as for (Rom 13:1-4), if you read it carefully, it never talks about the word “DOCTOR” DOctors are never a part of “principalitis and powers” but a part of social service… it talks about the “law of the land” and that we should be subject to them esp concerning tax. This emphasises more about the tax paying and not about doctors at all.

    And again talking about medicine, this word “MEDICINE” is derived from a word called “pharmacia” which means “sorcery”.. In olden days they had witch doctors, and black-magic doctors, ‘depending on them’ which are an abomination in the eyes of the Lord.

    When childen of Israel were in the wilderness, thier all in all was God…. Purely medicine was not all thier dependacy for 40 yrs !!!!!!!!!…. Purely, medicine is for those faith lacks in God for thier healing like an antibiotic, which causes all the body’s strength to loose and destroys the immune system of our body…

    Hope this helps Susan in getting some sense…


  80. Jim,

    Science and religion have always been at opposite ends. For me there is no scientific evidence that God exists. As far as I can see God seems to exist only in the human mind.
    I have not seen or read scientific proofs of life-after-death, supernatural forces or paranormal forces. So my stand “God does not exist” is based not just on personal opinion.

    But that does not mean I am anti-religion. I like Christ and his teachings. It is only religion which promotes the killing of people (Muslims/Hindus or Christians) in India, Pakistan, Iraq, Palestine or Israel that I oppose.

    I do not condemn religious views unless it is against the interests of a secular society.

    As to my article on the TPM, which has caused so much debate, it was written as a light-hearted piece to Christians not to be too legalistic. If it interests you, I am not pro or anti-TPM or pro-or anti any other Christian denomination. I am non-denominational and secular, in fact if you read other posts on my blog, I have also commented on the activities of other religious institutions (Churches/Hindu temples) and my general disapproval of some of their “money-making activities” and “vote-bank politics”. But being an ex-Christian my blog tends to address more the issues of the Christian community.

    About the ongoing debate with Susan, Anil and yourself (which I wish did not veer towards the personal or name-calling) I am not happy or unhappy about it.
    Being an atheist, does not mean I rejoice at bad things or good things being said about a certain denomination. I am interested in social secular reform not in inter-denomination politics.

    As to why I allow people to comment? I approve all comments which do not use bad words or filthy language. Comments like “All Muslims in India should be killed” or “All Christians should be driven out of India” or anything bound to create religious tensions I do not approve (And I have received quite racist/castiest comments). I believe in freedom of expression, so anyone can comment here.


  81. DEAR BRETHREN,

    1. IF MARRIAGE TAKES A PERSON AWAY FROM DEVOTION TO CHRIST THEN TPM WORKERS WOULD DO GOOD IF THEY GAVE UP THEIR MARRIAGE LICENSES WHICH THEY GOT FROM THE GOVERNMENT.
    (HOPE THEY PRACTISE CHRIST-FANATCISM!! RATHER THAN JUST PREACH)

    2. IF INCOME TAX OFFICIALS ARE APPOINTED BY GOD WHO APPOINTS DOCTORS? THERE WAS NO ANSWER TO THAT.

    (IN FACT JESUS SAID THAT A SICK MAN NEEDS A PHYSICIAN. SO WHO APPOINTED A PHYSICIAN?)

    3. IN TPM FAITHOMES YOU CAN SEE EXCELLENT “GRANDMA POTIONS” BEING PREPARED FOR WORKERS AND BELIEVERS WHEN THEY FALL SICK. PAS. A.C. THOMAS WAS GIVEN PROTEIN SUPPLEMENTS AND WATERBURY’S COMPOUND.

    PAS. C. JOHN WAS PROVIDED WITH PORK BECAUSE HE SUFFERED FROM PILES. MAYBE “FAITH” FORGOTTEN DURING THOSE CIRCUMSTANCES.

    4. TPM DOCTORS AND NURSES WHO PRESCRIBE MEDICINES (SORCERY ITEMS AS PER JIM) ARE GIVEN COMMUNION IN THE LORD’S TABLE?

    IF DOCTORS ARE SIMILAR TO WITCH DOCTORS WHY DOES TPM GIVE COMMUNION TO THEM?

    5. IT THE GOD OF THE ISRAELITES (JESUS) WHO SAID, “I AM THE LORD THAT HEALETH THEE” WHO AGAIN SAID THAT A SICK MAN NEEDS A PHYSICIAN. HOPE JIM REMEMBERS THAT!!

    PLEASE THINK…AND YOU CAN SEE THE TRUTH.


  82. Hey Rachel…

    You compare science with religion as having opposite ends… That is true. For me Christianity is not a religion at all. its a pure relation of mine with my creator.

    You will never find any scientific article on life-after-death as whole true picture although u’ll find vague imaginations of people putting down on the paper as books.

    But then again.. I never told you that you are anti-religion. What you see as God exists only in human mind is a pure teaching of Hindu philosophy… It says in every matter of the earth, air and within you.. is God…

    You say that “I do not condemn religious views unless it is against the interests of a secular society” where as you are contradicting yourself by using the word “secular, which talks about unity of all the religion” according to athiesms, religionS SHOULD NOT EXIST…. (PURE COMMUNISM)… Secularism is a concept of mixed democracy like India.

    And as far as science is concerned, if you are considering science to be a greater platform than the existence of God, I ask you what is your opinion about the “lame man walking”, “blind man being able to see”, “dead man raised to life (Lazarus)” etc etc… and all the miracles Jesus Christ performed?? These miracles to this date has not been able to be proven by the pure science… Science has its own flaw…

    Lets go step by step:

    Lets see now… what is gravity? This answer cannot be found in today’s theories.

    Answer:
    Newton only claimed that gravity was an attracting force
    between all objects because that’s the way things appear —
    objects fall to the Earth or approach each other when floating
    in outer space. So Newton understandably claimed that it
    must be some type of attracting force emanating from objects,
    but he gave no scientific explanation for this force. Why does
    it attract and not repel? How does it cause falling objects and
    orbiting planets without drawing on any known power source?

    Einstein was so dissatisfied with our lack of understanding about gravity even two centuries after Newton that he invented an entirely new theory of gravity, known as General Relativity. Yet this theory doesn’t solve these problems either, adding that since everything in 3-dimensional space takes time to occur we must include our time measurement as a literal 4th physical dimension of our universe’s structure — hence “4-D space-time”, which somehow warps 4-dimensionally in the presence of matter for still-unexplained reasons, presumably explaining gravity.

    In addition to the increase in unanswered questions with
    General Relativity, it has been found to completely fail even to
    explain the motion of stars in galaxies. This has led to the
    further invention of exotic “Dark Matter”, said to invisibly fill
    galaxies, rather than questioning Einstein’s theory and the
    often-repeated claim that it has been tested to extreme
    accuracy. Add to this the fact that there are still a half-dozen
    theories of gravity officially under consideration at the
    moment, all with different physical description of gravity,
    and it is no wonder many are still asking: “What is gravity?”

    Science cant prove its own existence, but we all believe in it… The law of science which says according to the established rules of empirical, stable, demonstrable protocol, that nothing can claim to be existence if we are not able to touch, smell, or seen it. It uses electricity and magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully understood either one.

    We know about elctro-magnetic force but has never really seen it… Science cannot even exlain a thought…

    SCIENCE FAILS RIGHT HERE !!!!


  83. Is Pork some kind of medicine?? its just food… even I have pork… Susan this makes you appear so cheap… what do you have to do with what they eat, and wear?? This Jim remembers everything… If god says “I am the Lord which healeth thee… thats it…”

    The verse goes like this “When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.”

    ****This was just an example given by Christ to explain His purpose of being in this world****


  84. Rachel Varghese talks here about prosperity.. of??? This is so funny… So Dr. PK Yuhana was a man of prosperity…

    Prosperity needs to be a result of honesty and struggle and not looting believer’s money for all thier the property and bank balance that they have, raided by income tax authorities to hit the headlines of all the newspapers.. This is a clear disobedience of the word of God which instructs every man to abide by the law of the land and to pay the tax (Rom 13:1-4).

    Again Rachel Varghese talks about 2 premises…

    PREMISE NO. 1: ALL DENOMINATIONS HAVE MISINTERPRETATIONS.

    PREMISE NO.2 : TPM ALSO HAS MISINTERPRETATIONS…

    ****The second premise has no meaning if she was to say that premise no1 is true…. as I thought tpm is also a denomination. This makes me to conclude that tpm is not a denomination like any ordinary one but ultimate truth.****

    She concludes both the premises by saying that I dont want to expose any blah blah blah…. NOW what I have to say on this…. “I WAS NEVER INTO ACCUSATION GAMES PROMOTING THE DEVIL’S WORK…. I HAVE DONE THIS TOO MAUCH SINCE A LOOOONG TIME BUT BENEFITTED NOTHING OUT OF IT… BUT YESSS… I WILL ALWAYS EXPRESS MY VIEWS ON WHAT I THINK… I NEVER ACCUSED ANY DENOMINATION AND NOT INTERESTED… I JUST TAKE THEM AS THIER OPINION BASED ON HOW THEY WERE TAUGHT FROM THE TIME THEY WERE YOUNG…. THATS ALL”

    And about the 3 points that Rachel Varghese states as being conveyed by Susan… “THESE ARE UTTER NONSENSE WHICH I HAVE NEVER HEARD OF PREACHING OR BEING TAUGHT. EVERY BELIEVER IS A PRIEST AND TPM STRONGLY TEACHES AND ADVOCATES THE SAME., WHICH ENCOURAGES ANY TPM BLIEVER TO HAVE AUTHORITY IN THE NAME OF ‘JESUS-THE RESURRECTED FROM DEAD’ TO FAST AND PRAY AND ALSO CAST OUT DEMONS IN THE NAME OF CHRIST…”

    After saying all these, I have a BIG doubt on the claims of both Ms. Susan and Rachel Varghese…. Have they ever tried to approach a tpm pastor to justify what they claim or may be for a discussion which may last for max couple of hours…??? If not then it only goes on to prove how coward they are to express thier bitterness in the internet than to spread hope, peace and joy which Chrsitianity talks about…


  85. There are two aspects: Susan is not understanding that… one to remain CHRIST-FANATIC like St. Paul, and an another to remain faithful to Lord, following Him, keeping all his commandments…

    For both these there are certain procedures as per the law. If you are getting married, it must be according to the law. Word of God also says to be subject to the law of the land. And since the marriages needs to be registered in the government books, it needs to be done by someone who has got the licence. Now if the person has to marry as per the law as Bible says, it ofcourse has to be a pastor and a pastor would need a licence for it for without which it would be a clear law-breaking of the land…

    Now is there something here that is not understandable??? This is very clear…


  86. Hi Jim brother..

    You are right in all the aspects… I UNDERSTAND THAT VERY CLEARLY… but dont you think you are also into blame game exacltly like these two sisters…?? Accusing some dr. pk yuhana and blah blah…??

    This makes even you appear to be in the same catagory like those sisters… Atleast you leave it once and for all.. Let them play the game… lets watch and have some fun…. These types of articles are seldom found on internet.. so leme atleast read them and have some fun…

    And I also liked the funda of being a CHRIST-FANATIC…. Is there really any such pentacostal denomination with pastors serving as a celibate workers like Catholic system??? !!!! Its amazing… I would like to know more about them… Please do let me know… (CERTAINLY NOT FROM SUSAN AND RACHEL V)

    But then I must say… You have wrote very well about the theory of gravity… And I would like to read response from Rachel C very soon….

    Regards,
    Anil


  87. HYPOCRICY OF TPM:

    1. JIM WAS VERY ON POINTS 2 AND 4 ON THE BLOG DATED 7 JAN ’09. IF GOD IS THE HEALER WHY WAS PORK TAKEN FOR PILES. JIM HAS NOT READ MY PASSAGE PROPERLY.

    I SAID PORK WAS TAKEN FOR PILES NOT AS FOOD.

    2. STILL AS RACHEL VARGHESE POINTED OUT JIM HAS NOT YET GIVEN ANY STATEMENT OF SCRIPTURAL MISINTERPRETATIONS WHEN HE TALKS ABOUT YOHANNAN. THIS IS A TERRIBLE LACK.

    WHEREAS WHAT I AM ADDRESSING IS THE SCRIPTURAL MISINTERPRETATIONS OF TPM.

    3. JESUS EXPLAINED HIS PURPOSE OF BEING IN THIS WORLD AND TO DO THAT HE DID NOT TELL A LIE. HE WAS STATING THE TRUTH THAT A SICK MAN NEEDS A PHYSICIAN.

    4. IF YOU ASK THESE TPM FANATS (WHO TAKE ALL SELF MADE MEDICINAL PRESCRIPTIONS IN THEIR PRIVACY) AND EXTERNALLY DENOUNCE MEDICINAL PREPARATIONS AS TO WHY TPM WORKERS GIVE COMMUNION FOR DOCTORS IN TPM (WITCH DOCTORS) THEY WOULD NOT ANSWER.

    5. SO JIM AGREES THAT TPM IS MARRIAGE LICENSING CORPORATION. THEY WOULD CLAIM THAT MARRIAGE IS A DILUTION OF CHRIST FANATICISM BUT STILL CONDUCT MARRIAGES IN FAITH HOMES.

    TPM WOULD SCREAM THAT MARRIAGE TAKES A PERSON AWAY FROM CHRIST AND STILL CONDUCT MARRIAGES TO LEAD PEOPLE AWAY FROM CHRIST FANATICISM. EXCELLENT LOGIC!! PHARISEES WERE LESS HYPOCRITICAL, I THINK.

    6. IF EVERY BELIEVER IS A PRIEST AND HAS ACCESS INTO THE MOST PLACE OF THE FATHER OF JESUS WHY ARE TPM WORKERS BRAGGING ABOUT THEIR FALSE MELCHIZEDEK CALLING? WHY ARE THEY BRAGGING ABOUT THEMSELVES IN THEIR BOOKS ON “DEEPER TRUTHS” (ACTAULLY TPM BOOKS COULD BE CALLED AS “DEEPER LIES”!!)

    7. REMEMBER, YOU ARE A PRIEST. YOU HAVE ACCESS INTO THE MOST HOLY PLACE. SPEAK TO THE FATHER. JESUS DIED TO GIVE YOU HIS FATHER AND HIS HOLY SPIRIT AND NOT A BUNCH OF SELF-GLORIFYING PHARISEES!!

    DEAR BRETHREN, JUST BEWARE OF TPM WHICH IS A WOLF IN WHITE-CLOTHING WHO INSERT SCRIPTURAL DISTORTIONS IN THE NAME OF PIETY WITH A FALSE HUMILITY.

    DO NOT LOOK TO THEIR MAN-MADE AND SELF-GLORIFYING CONSECRATION BUT LOOK TO THE HOLY SPIRIT.

    GOD BLESS YOU!!


  88. “When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.”

    ****This was just an example given by Christ to explain His purpose of being in this world****

    HE compares the sinners with those who are sick… Christ died on the cross to deliver us from sins. His blood is strong enough to heal us from any sins that we might have commited. When you do no sin, you wont have any sicknesses.. Sickness is the cause of sin that U might have comitted or your forefathers…


  89. CAN CPM PASTORS AND APOSTLES MARRY ???

    Firstly the founder Pastor Paul was a married man and
    had children when in a faithhome. The celibate type of
    ministry was introduced by Pastor Alvin, a sinhalese,
    whose ancestors were Catholics. He changed
    Paul’s vision into a catholic style ministry. Finally
    this Alvin fell in adultery in France Faithome and was excommunicated
    from CPM.

    Secondly, Pastor Freddy Paul, son of the founder (Paul) had got many Pastors married. A leading example is Pastor
    Manohar who is now in Jaipur faithhome. He has four
    children. His wife is Sis. Lilykutty. Similarly the
    founder Paul also got 10 Pastors married and they
    lived in a marriage when in CPM ministry. The CPM
    Pastors suppress these facts from the believers.

    Thirdly, 1 Cor 9 vs 5 states that the apostles had the
    authority to be married and that was why Pastors like
    Manohar, Founder Paul, Pastor Joseph (Composer Sis.
    Glory’s dad), Mother Arthur etc., were all in marriage
    during their ministry. Celibacy was promoted to create
    an identity for TPM and thereby preserve their
    believers from leaving the denomination.

    Fourthly, Moses who was a married man also was able
    to see God face to face. All our dedication are as filthy rags before the Most Holy God. Hence let us brag about Christ and not about the TPM dedication. God can use a donkey for his ministry. Num 22:28. God wants someone who obeys Him and not our man-made dedication.

    Fifthly, Pas. Raman Kutty Paul never had a vision of
    buying lands and buildings for the church or in the name of a Trust. Their vision was to live in rented places and that was why they called it a faithhome. But now the same name is
    used absolutely meaninglessly as people do not know
    the earlier committment.

    But now all rationalisations are provided but they do not want to part with the name “faithhome”.

    I wish you are enlightened with the above and not fall a trap to the TPM’s self glorification of their consecration.

    I encourage you to minister as you are a priest as per 1 Peter 2:5,9. There is only one High Priest who is Jesus. The 12 tribes of Israel had a calling to be a kingdom of priests as per Ex 19:6.

    CPM Pastors will brag about their melchizedek consecration in their songs and sermons and will not reveal that you are a priest.


  90. This is what apostle Paul’s opinion about marriage. The author of this (rachelchitra) seems to be not higher that St. Paul.

    Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman.

    2Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.

    3Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband.

    4The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife.

    5Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency.

    6But I speak this by permission, and not of commandment.

    7For I would that all men were even as I myself. But every man hath his proper gift of God, one after this manner, and another after that.

    8I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, it is good for them if they abide even as I.

    9But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn.

    10And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband:

    11But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife.

    12But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away.

    13And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him.

    14For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.

    15But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace.

    16For what knowest thou, O wife, whether thou shalt save thy husband? or how knowest thou, O man, whether thou shalt save thy wife?

    17But as God hath distributed to every man, as the Lord hath called every one, so let him walk. And so ordain I in all churches.

    18Is any man called being circumcised? let him not become uncircumcised. Is any called in uncircumcision? let him not be circumcised.

    19Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

    20Let every man abide in the same calling wherein he was called.

    21Art thou called being a servant? care not for it: but if thou mayest be made free, use it rather.

    22For he that is called in the Lord, being a servant, is the Lord’s freeman: likewise also he that is called, being free, is Christ’s servant.

    23Ye are bought with a price; be not ye the servants of men.

    24Brethren, let every man, wherein he is called, therein abide with God.

    25Now concerning virgins I have no commandment of the Lord: yet I give my judgment, as one that hath obtained mercy of the Lord to be faithful.

    26I suppose therefore that this is good for the present distress, I say, that it is good for a man so to be.

    27Art thou bound unto a wife? seek not to be loosed. Art thou loosed from a wife? seek not a wife.

    28But and if thou marry, thou hast not sinned; and if a virgin marry, she hath not sinned. Nevertheless such shall have trouble in the flesh: but I spare you.

    29But this I say, brethren, the time is short: it remaineth, that both they that have wives be as though they had none;

    30And they that weep, as though they wept not; and they that rejoice, as though they rejoiced not; and they that buy, as though they possessed not;

    31And they that use this world, as not abusing it: for the fashion of this world passeth away.

    32But I would have you without carefulness. He that is unmarried careth for the things that belong to the Lord, how he may please the Lord:

    33But he that is married careth for the things that are of the world, how he may please his wife.

    34There is difference also between a wife and a virgin. The unmarried woman careth for the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and in spirit: but she that is married careth for the things of the world, how she may please her husband.

    35And this I speak for your own profit; not that I may cast a snare upon you, but for that which is comely, and that ye may attend upon the Lord without distraction.

    36But if any man think that he behaveth himself uncomely toward his virgin, if she pass the flower of her age, and need so require, let him do what he will, he sinneth not: let them marry.

    37Nevertheless he that standeth stedfast in his heart, having no necessity, but hath power over his own will, and hath so decreed in his heart that he will keep his virgin, doeth well.

    38So then he that giveth her in marriage doeth well; but he that giveth her not in marriage doeth better.

    39The wife is bound by the law as long as her husband liveth; but if her husband be dead, she is at liberty to be married to whom she will; only in the Lord.

    40But she is happier if she so abide, after my judgment: and I think also that I have the Spirit of God.


  91. on January 8, 2009 at 6:54 am rachel varghese

    THE FOLLOWING IS THE OPINION OF TPM FOUNDER PAS. PAUL AND THE EARLY APOSTLES AS STATED IN THE SCRIPTURES:

    1. 1 Timothy 3: 5 says, “(If anyone does not know how to manage his own family, how can he take care of God’s church?)”

    Thus, God expects the people, especially those who lead and manage congregations, to be married and be able to manage their family.

    2. Secondly, Jesus never commanded His apostles to remain unmarried. If He had required that apostles should be celibates, He would have selected unmarried people as apostles. However, Jesus chose married people as apostles.

    3. Thirdly, 1 Corinthians 9:5 says, “5Don’t we have the right to take a believing wife along with us, as do the other apostles and the Lord’s brothers and Cephas[a]?

    The above verse clearly states that apostles never forsook their wives but instead they took them along. Moreover, Paul the apostle claims, in the above verse, that he has a right to marry as the other apostles did.

    4. Fourthly, in 1 Timothy 4: 1, 2 and 3 the Bible warns saying, “The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. They forbid people to marry…”

    Thus, the Holy Spirit warns that in the last days, false teachers will forbid people to abstain from marriage. Beware of TPM which calls marriage as lustful and defiling.


  92. Hi Jim,

    What you see as God exists only in human mind is a pure teaching of Hindu philosophy… It says in every matter of the earth, air and within you.. is God…

    I didn’t know that line of thought came from Hinduism. I think I first heard my social science professor say it. Anyway I’m happy to know the source. But since we live in largely Hindu country, its only natural that so many of its traditions and beliefs cross-over to us. So many Christians even now tie the thali and stop wearing flowers when they are widowed. So many archaic practises like marriages-based on caste. Wish there was more Christian (by Christian I mean Christ-like) egalitarianism.

    You say that “I do not condemn religious views unless it is against the interests of a secular society” where as you are contradicting yourself by using the word “secular, which talks about unity of all the religion” according to athiesms, religionS SHOULD NOT EXIST…. (PURE COMMUNISM)… Secularism is a concept of mixed democracy like India.

    India should be a secular country. I don’t have any statistics, but I’m guessing 80 to 95 per cent people in India are theists – they believe in some religion. Atheists are very much in the minority. I don’t aim at converting people to atheism or debunking their religious belief. But I am sure we would like an India without the Gujarat riots, the atrocities against Christians in Orissa or the Graham Steines incident. So in India, “secularism” can be the only platform for religious harmony, not atheism.
    Gravity or questions about our existence or evolution – science hasn’t answered still. For many centuries people lived thinking the sun goes around the earth…So science will take its time to answer questions. We cannot understand the mysteries of the universe overnight.

    “Science cant prove its own existence, but we all believe in it… “

    I am not too sure what you mean by this. But I can tell you the failure of science in explaining every phenomenon on earth is no proof of the existence of God.


  93. The verses quoted from 2 to 40 by Sam from the Holy Scripture … seems to be some kind of —- for Sis Rachel… What does this prove about the spirit of hers???

    The scripture is so very clear on this… I just love the way how they maintain themselves as CHRIST-FANATICS as Jim quoted. This is wonderful.

    Brother Sam, can you help me with some tpm churche’s branch in Mulund??


  94. Sorry Anil to edit your comment on Rachel Varghese. Its the first comment I’m editing. But do try to engage only in theological debates not in anything personal.


  95. I THINK ANIL HAS FORGOTTEN THAT THE VERSES QUOTED BY RACHEL WERE OFCOURSE FROM THE SCRIPTURES.

    MAYBE ANIL HAS READ ONLY SOME PORTIONS OF THE BIBLE.

    IF TPM WAS CHRIST FANATIC AS YOU CLAIM TPM WOULD DO THE FOLLOWING:

    1. STOP CONDUCTING MARRIAGES IN TPM. (BECAUSE TPM PREACHES THAT MARRIAGE IS DEFILING AND LEADING AWAY FROM CHRIST’S DEVOTION)

    2. STOP BOASTING ABOUT THEIR UNBIBLICAL MELCHIZEDEK’S CALLING TO GLORIFY THEMSELVES.

    3. START PREACHING THAT BELIEVERS ARE PRIESTS WITH CONFIDENT ACCESS INTO THE MOST HOLY PLACE FAR BETTER THAN THE HIGH PRIEST AARON.

    4. START PREACHING THAT BELIEVERS CAN HEAR THE VOICE OF GOD AS THEY HAVE ACCESS TO THE FATHER INTO THE MOST HOLY PLACE.

    WITHOUT DOING THIS CLAIMING CHRIST FANATICISM IS PURE FICTION.

    MOREOVER I HAD ONE MORE INTERESTING QUESTION FOR ANIL. YOU SAID, “When you do no sin, you wont have any sicknesses.. Sickness is the cause of sin that U might have comitted or your forefathers…”

    IF SO WHY DO TPM WORKERS GET ALL THE DIABETES, BLOOD PRESSURE, PILES, BOILS AND DIE SO YOUNG? CAN YOU PLEASE ANSWER?


  96. The whole bible is true. All words in it are true. You cannot use (quote) one against the other.

    I Corinthians chapter 7 cannot be used against 1 Timothy 3: 5 says or vice versa. Each one of them has got its own significance. No one can practise the entire things said in the Bible. At least one should believe it entirely.

    Every one can chose things according to his faith and call.

    It is not for marriage church was created. It was for church marriage was constitued.

    God’s church is not about managing many families, God’s church is not managed by any family in this world. It is well managed by God. God’s church is not for families only. It is built upon foundation of apostles who had given his life for Jesus Christ.

    The true bride of Jesus is a pure and chaste virgin (not corrupted by world that does not means not marrying), washed in the blood of the Lamb and waiting for his comming.

    These this will corrupt one’s life are sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. All are included in equal brackets.

    Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

    JUDGE not, that ye be not judged.
    or
    Judge ye be judged.


  97. Dear Anil, you may check the below adresses. Choose things that you feels good, but please spare there life and criticising their teaching.

    Ambernath The Pentecostal Mission 531,Sai Section, Old High School Road,Ambernath-421501 Sunday/9a.m/Hindi,Malayalam,Telagu Wednesday/6.30p.m/Hindi,Malayalam,Telagu Saturday/6.30p.m/Hindi,Malayalam,Telagu Pr.J.E.Dasan

    65251-602285ph
    Deonar The Pentecostal Mission PlotNo-1, Lala Jamunadas Gupta Marg, Deonar, Mumbai-400088 Sunday/9a.m/English,Hindi,Tamil Wednesday/6.30p.m/Hindi,Malayalam Saturday/6.30p.m/Hindi,Malayalam Br.Sampat 5565667,5512497
    Dharavi The Pentecostal Mission G.F.I, Dharavi Kali Chawl 162-C, Dharavi Main Road, Dharavi, Mumbai-400017 Sunday 9 a.m English, Hindi, Tamil Br.Sampat 4011437
    Dombivli The Pentecostal Mission Jondhale High School, Nr. Rly. Station, Dombivli(W) Sunday 9 a.m. Hindi, Malayalam Br.Johnson 95251-406547
    Kandivli(E) The Pentecostal Mission Vandemataram Chawl, Gautam Nagar, Kandivli(E)

    Sunday 9a.m. Telgu, Hindi
    Pr.A.Thomas –

    Khopoli The Pentecostal Mission House No-135A, Ward No-9, Nr. Lawjee Station, Khopoli, Raigad Dist. Sunday 9a.m. Hindi, Tamil – 02143-661756
    Mulund The Pentecostal Mission Sidharth Nagar, Dr.R.P.Road, Mulund(W), Mumbai-400080 Sunday/9a.m/ Telgu,Hindi,Tamil Thursday/6.30p.m/ Telgu,Hindi,Tamil Saturday/6.30p.m/ Telgu,Hindi,Tamil Pr.Prasad Rao 5612857/5650080
    Panvel The Pentecostal Mission Palspe Village, Plot No-124, H.No-512, Opp.Gram Panchayat Office, Panvel, Navi Mumbai-410206 Sunday/9a.m/ English,Hindi,Malayalam Wednesday/6.30p.m/ Hindi,Malayalam Saturday/6.30p.m/ Hindi,Malayalam Br.Jaysaleen Roy 02142-20153
    Vasai(W) The Pentecostal Mission Nr. Priya Housing Society, Michael Gomes Road, Chuina, Vasai(W), Mumbai-383450 Sunday/9a.m/Hindi,Marathi, Wednesday/6.30p.m/Hindi,Malayalam Saturday/6.30p.m/Hindi,Malayalam Shaji Philip 912-349988.
    Vile Parle(W) The Pentecostal Mission 216, St.Francis Road, Off S.V. Road, Vile Parle(W), Mumbai-400056 Sunday/9a.m/English,Hindi,Tamil Tuesday/6.30p.m/English,Hindi,Malaylam Saturday/6.30p.m/Hindi,Malaylam Br.Anil 6106048/6109905


  98. TRUE SANCTIFICATION AS FOLLOWS:

    YES, AS SAM SAID TPM SHOULD REFRAIN JUDGING OTHER MINISTRIES REGARDING THEIR PROSPERITY.

    TPM SHOULD STOP USING SPECIAL BIBLE STUDIES TO CRITICISE OTHER MINISTRIES.

    TPM SHOULD STOP VISITING THE BELIEVERS FROM OTHER CHURCHES AND SAY, “YOUR PASTOR IS MARRIED BUT WE ARE NOT. WE DEVOTE TIME FOR YOU…” AND STEAL THE BELIEVERS FROM OTHER CHURCHES.

    TPM SHOULD STOP MISINTERPRETING SCRIPTURES TO CREATE AN IDENTITY FOR THEMSELVES AND THUS DIVIDING THE UNITY IN THE UNIVERSAL CHURCH OF GOD.

    TPM SHOULD LET THEIR BELIEVERS VISIT OTHER MINISTRIES AND GIVE THEIR TITHES TO OTHER MINISTERS. FOR ALL MINISTERS BELONG TO THE UNIVERSAL CHURCH OF GOD.

    TPM SHOULD STOP PORTRAYING THEMSELVES AS “HOLIER THAN THOU” BY THEIR WHITE-CULTURE DISPLAY BEFORE OTHER CHRISTIANS. THEY SHOULD STOP THEIR FALSE HUMILITY AND EXTERNAL SHOW OF RIGHTEOUSNESS.

    TPM SHOULD LEARN TO APPLY BIBLE VERSES APPROPRIATELY. NOT CHOOSING ONE AND SWALLOWING 1 TIMOTHY 3:5 AS IF IT DID NOT EXIST. TPM SHOULD CEASE FROM CONTRADICTING BY CLAIMING THAT MARRIAGE IS DEFILING AND CONDUCTING MARRIAGES AT THE SAME TIME!!

    TPM SHOULD STOP WORKER-GLORIFICATION AND STOP TELLING THE BLATANT LIE OF MELCHIZEDEK CALLING WHEN THE BIBLE CLAIMS THAT ONLY JESUS IS CALLED AFTER THE ORDER OF MELCHIZEDEK.

    NO USE OF SANCTIFICATION MEETINGS IN TPM WITHOUT GIVING UP THE SINS OF DISTORTING SCRIPTURE TO GLORIFY THEMSELVES!!

    WHEN THE TPM MISINTERPRETATIONS ARE HIGHLIGHTED SAM SHOULD STOP CALLING THEM AS “JUDGING” AND TRY TO MISLEAD PEOPLE. INSTEAD SAM SHOULD UNDERSTAND THAT GOD RESISTS THE “PROUD” AND TELL TPM WORKERS TO REMOVE THE WORKER-BRAGGING LINES IN SONGS AND SERMONS.

    MAY GOD OPEN YOUR EYES OF UNDERSTANDING.


  99. Sam,

    Beautifully written… !!!

    “JUDGE not, that ye be not judged.
    or
    Judge ye be judged.”

    Jim.


  100. Sister Rachel C…

    Your existense is the proof of your creator….!!! Thats the proof I wanted to convey you since this loong.. atlast you asked me…!!!

    And if you say that this proof is invalid, then you should have exact reasons for your existence!!!

    Jim.


  101. Wicked shall prosper. What prosperity for one in this world? No one in the world was richer than King Solomon who give much important in his life acquiring wisdom than riches?

    When one die in this world? Even one possess billions of dollors or hecters of land he will get only six feet? not even quarter to six.

    Every one should leave this world one day and should pay their debts (for sin) and stand before judgement before God, I don’t know will any one have strength to argue before God.

    By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh’s daughter;
    Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season;
    Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward.


  102. Jim,

    I don’t want to get vulgar, but I think my existence is due to the fact that my parents had sex. I doubt there was any divine intervention in it. If you were to ask my about my ancestors – they maybe the Neathandral man…who is supposed to have evolved over millions of years from the ape…
    Don’t immediately ask me why monkeys are now not turning human……
    If you are going to argue about God’s 7-day creation stunt over Darwin’s evolutionary theory…..I think its easier and more logical to believe Darwin than Moses’s account of events


  103. Jim,

    I know you believe in God. So even if you believe in God, remember the Bible was written by human beings – with human emotions like love, kindness, prejudice, sexism and even racism…
    So it might bring less strife if we remember the Bible was written by human hands and not get too legalistic about things.
    If you believe in God – try to believe in a God who is merciful, kind and quick to forgive us for our weaknesses rather than a legalistic God.


  104. Jim,

    I wrote that “we shouldn’t be too legalistic over the Bible” with you, Susan, Anil & Rachel Verghese in mind. If you are Christians, I am assuming all of you think you belong to the body of Christ.

    Since heaven is supposed to be non-denominational (I doubt that there are separate gates marked “Roman Catholics only,” “Pentecostals only,” or “Anglicans only” in heaven) debates on theology really need not get personal.

    Christ will judge you on your sins (i.e. actions not views/ theology).

    So in the process of debating over views/theology (which do not guarentee any entry to heaven, only the grace of God does), let us not call each other stupid or fanatical…
    We can abuse a person’s views but never the person.


  105. TPM’S DECEPTION

    IT IS TPM’S AGE OLD STRATEGY TO BRAND SOMEONE SAYING, “DO NOT JUDGE US” WHEN SOMEONE IS HIGHLIGHTING TPM’S SCRIPTURAL MISINTERPRETATIONS.

    TPM CRAVES TO RESERVE THE RIGHT TO DISTORT THE MEANINGS OF SCRIPTURE AS THEY LIKE.

    WHEN SOMEONE WARNS THE TPM BELIEVERS THAT SUCH AND SUCH DECEPTION IS FOUND IN TPM, IMMEDIATELY TPM FANATS BECOME DESPERATE TO SWEEP THE TPM’S MISINTERPRETATIONS UNDER THE CARPET SWIFTLY.

    THEY HAVE BEEN DOING THIS ARTISTICALLY FOR DECADES. THEY WOULD NOT EVEN HESITATE TO THREATEN THOSE WHO EXPOSE THE TRUTH WITH CURSES AND VIOLENCE. THERE ARE MANY TESTIMONIES TO THAT.

    TPM ARE LIKE COMMUNISTS. THEY WILL COVER UP ALL IMMORALITY. THROW OUT THOSE WHO EXPOSE THE TRUTH. ASSAULT THOSE WHO CHANGE THE NAME OF THE CHURCH.

    AFTER ALL THESE THEY WILL SCREAM AND PREACH ABOUT THE COMING OF THE LORD AND ABOUT SANCTIFICATION!!

    NOTICE THEIR SONGS, SERMONS AND BIBLE STUDIES AND THEIR SO-CALLED DEEPER TRUTH (LIES) BOOKS. THEY ALL HAVE ONE OBJECTIVE. TO GLORIFY THEIR UNBIBLICAL MELCHIZEDEK CALLING AND PRESERVE THEIR IDENTITY.

    THEY ARE DECEIVED TO SUCH AN EXTENT THAT THEY DO NOT REALISE THE DARKNESS OF VAINFUL PRIDE THAT LURKS AMONG THEM. THEY ARE LEAST BOTHERED ABOUT UNITY AMONG CHRISTIANS. THEIR ONLY GOAL IS TO SHOW THEMSELVES AS “HOLIER THAN THOU”.

    REFRAIN FROM JUDGING THOSE WHO EXPOSE THE TPM’S SCRIPTURAL MISINTERPRETATIONS. INSTEAD HUMBLE BEFORE GOD AND ADMIT THE ERRORS DONE AND REPENT.


  106. Hi Rachel,

    May be u are right.. Man evolved from apes.. but from where did ape come from??? from monkeys?? but monkeys from where??..

    Darwin says that the life was evolved out of sea in the form of FIRST uni-cellular organism, then multi-cellular and so on to become a fish and then some mamel and so on till a man..

    Now to blive that cell originated of its own… its IMPOSSIBILE, with DNA codes a 100 billion times more complex than that of binary codings by which computers are created. It involves complex procedures like coding, debugging, and testing. And again it has so many phases of testing…. Now to blive that cell just popped up into existence….. I mean… to say that “my computer just popped up into existence” would be more intellectual.

    The functionality of a cell (which we cant see with our naked eys) is so complex that its a million times more complex than even the most complex and powerful electric powerhouse of Kentucky. The machines that we see is human-made-machine. But what about the biological machines???? It just popped up into existence?? Hard to believe…

    Read my theory of evolution of a cocal cola can (taken from a website)

    Billions of years ago, a big bang produced a large rock. As the rock cooled, sweet brown liquid formed on its surface. As time passed, aluminum formed itself into a can, a lid, and a tab. Millions of years later, red and white paint fell from the sky, and formed itself into the words “Coca Cola 12 fluid ounces.”

    Of course, my theory is an insult to your intellect, because you know that if the Coca Cola can is made, there must be a maker. If it is designed, there must be a designer. The alternative, that it happened by chance or accident, is to move into an intellectual free zone.

    It is very clear:****The alternative, that it happened by chance or accident, is to move into an intellectual free zone***

    The banana-the atheist’s nightmare.

    Note that the banana:

    Is shaped for human hand
    Has non-slip surface
    Has outward indicators of inward content:
    Green-too early,
    Yellow-just right,
    Black-too late.
    Has a tab for removal of wrapper
    Is perforated on wrapper
    Bio-degradable wrapper
    Is shaped for human mouth
    Has a point at top for ease of entry
    Is pleasing to taste buds
    Is curved towards the face to make eating process easy.

    Law of physics (human knowledge) says… “nothing can be created out of nothing, and again it says, “no energy can be created but changes its form from one to another”

    Then again you say Bible was written by the hands of human… was surely written by the hands of prophets (ofcourse men) by the inspiration of holy spirit. Now you’ll be like “what non-sense??”

    That can proved.. because no other religion’s holy book says (except Koran) or declares with such an authority over a 1000 times words like “I am the Lord….”, “Thus saith the Lord…”, “I am Lord thy God… they shall be My people” etc etc..

    Also no other book in the world (written by men) mentions the prophesies with such an exactness that even Nostradamus fails..

    Following are few examples….

    1: Jeremiah 33:22 (written 2500 years ago): “As the host of heaven cannot be numbered, neither the sand of the sea measured.”

    The Bible claimed that there are billions of stars (“host of heaven” is the biblical term for the stars). When it made this statement, no one knew how vast the numbers of stars were as only about 1,100 were observable. Now we know that there are billions of stars, and that they cannot be numbered.

    2: Job 26:7 (written 3500 years ago): “He stretches out the north over the empty place, and hangs the earth upon nothing.”

    The Bible claimed that the earth freely floated in space. Science then thought that the earth sat on a large animal. We now know that the earth has a free float in space.

    3:(The best one) Hebrews 11:3 (written 2000 years ago): “Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.”

    The Bible claims that all creation is made of invisible material. Science then was ignorant of the subject. We now know that the entire creation is made of invisible elements called “atoms.”

    4:Leviticus 17:11 (written 3000 years ago): “For the life of the flesh is in the blood.”

    The Scriptures declare that blood is the source of life. Up until 120 years ago, sick people were “bled”, and many died because of the practice. We now know that blood is the source of life. If you lose your blood, you will lose your life.

    5:Leviticus 15:13 (written 3000 years ago): “And when he that has an issue is cleansed of his issue; then he shall number to himself seven days for his cleansing, and wash his clothes, and bathe his flesh in running water, and shall be clean.”

    The Bible said that when dealing with disease, hands should be washed under running water. Up until 100 years ago doctors washed their hands in a basin of still water, resulting in the death of multitudes. We now know that doctors must wash their hands under running water. The Encyclopedia Britannica documents that in 1845, a young doctor in Vienna named Dr. Ignaz Semmelweis was horrified at the terrible death rate of women who were dying after giving birth in hospitals. As many as 30% of those giving birth died. The Doctor noted that doctors would examine the bodies of those who had died, then, without washing their hands, go straight to the next wards and examine expectant mothers. This was their normal practice, because the presence of microscopic diseases was unknown. Doctor Semmelweis insisted that doctors wash their hands before examinations, and the death rate immediately dropped down to 2%

    6:Isaiah 40:22 (written 2800 years ago): “It is he that sits upon the circle of the earth.”

    The Bible informs us here that the earth is round. At a time when science believed that the earth was flat, it was the Scriptures that inspired Christopher Columbus to sail around the world. He wrote: “It was the Lord who put it into my mind. I could feel His hand upon me . . . there is no question the inspiration was from the Holy Spirit because He comforted me with rays of marvelous illumination from the Holy Scriptures . . .” (From his diary, in reference to his discovery of “the New World”).

    7:Job 38:19 (written 3500 years ago). “Where is the way where light dwells?”

    Modern man has only just discovered that light (electromagnetic radiation) has a “way,” involving motion traveling at 186,000 miles per second.

    8:Genesis 1:1,3 (written 3,450 years ago): “In the beginning God created the Heaven and the earth . . . And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.”

    Science expresses the universe in five terms: time, space, matter, power and motion. “In the beginning (time) God created (power) the Heaven (space) and the earth (matter) . . . And the Spirit of God moved (motion) upon the face of the waters.”

    9:Why did the dinosaur disappear? This is something that has modern science mystified, but the Bible may have the answer (written 3500 years ago. God Himself is speaking):

    “Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee; he eats grass as an ox. Lo now, his strength is in his loins, and his force is in the navel of his belly. He moves his tail like a cedar: the sinews of his stones are wrapped together. His bones are as strong pieces of brass; his bones are like bars of iron. He is the chief of the ways of God: he that made him can make his sword to approach unto him. Surely the mountains bring him forth food, where all the beasts of the field play. He lies under the shady trees, in the covert of the reed, and fens. The shady trees cover him with their shadow; the willows of the brook compass him about. Behold, he drinks up a river, and hastens not: he trusts that he can draw up Jordan into his mouth. He takes it with his eyes: his nose pierces through snares. (Job 40:15-24).

    This was the Largest of all creatures He made.
    It was plant-eating (herbivorous).
    It had its strength in its hips.
    Its tail was like a large tree (a cedar).
    It had very strong bones.
    Its habitat was among the trees.
    Drank massive amounts of water.
    His nose pierced through snares.
    Then Scripture says, ” . . . He that made him can make his sword approach to him.” In other words, God caused this, the largest of all the creatures He had made, to become extinct.

    10:Psalm 8:8: “And the fish of the sea, and whatsoever passes through the paths of the seas.”

    What does the Bible mean by “paths” of the seas? The sea is just a huge mass of water, how then could it have “paths?” Man discovered the existence of ocean currents in the 1850’s, but the Bible declared the science of oceanography 2,800 years ago. Matthew Maury (1806- 1873) is considered to be the father of oceanography. He was bedridden during a serious illness and asked his son to read a portion of the Bible to him. While listening, he noticed the expression “paths of the sea.” Upon his recovery, Maury took God at His word and went looking for these paths. His book on oceanography is still considered a basic text on the subject and is still used in universities.

    These are just a gyst of the facts that Bible reveals… And the writers who wrote this, were not scientists or doctors any learnt men of those times but merely were pure servants of God.


  107. Thanks Jim for your mail yesterday !!! I just posted them here… hehe

    Anil.


  108. Hi Anil,
    Science does not answer all the questions with regard to evolution. Remember no one refers to Charles Darwin’s theory as “Law of evolution,”…it’s still a theory & hence the “Theory of Evolution”.

    But, as they say in court: “The absence of evidence is no proof.”

    Just as Charles Darwin’s theory of evolution cannot be proved, the Bible’s 7-day account of creation also cannot be proved.

    If “Nothing can be created out of Nothing,” How did God originate? What is eternity? How did God create trees, plants, human beings, planets and the universe out of nothing?

    Whether the Bible was guided by a para-normal spirit or not, you will admit it was written by humans and is subject to human emotions. (A correction I would never abuse anything in the Bible or any other religious text as “nonsense” in a public forum because there are people who deeply believe in it and will get hurt by such irresponsible comments).

    You say, no other religious text …. :-)

    But I thought the Torah and the Kuran share the same old testament as the Bible?

    Historial events predicted by the Bible and geographical facts related in the Bible:

    The Universe has billions of stars (Jeremiah 33:22), Earth revolves around the sun in space (Job 26:7, Isaiah 40:22), hygienic practises (Leviticus 15:13), 6: (written 2800 years ago), existence of dinosaurs and ocean currents show that such discoveries were made by man or God (who exists in the human mind) at the time the Bible was written.

    Even in the Vedas & Upanishads, there are texts that the “earth revolves around the sun in space.” Indians had known about the planets and their paths in the universe for so many centuries prior to 450 B.C (450 B.C. is the date of the first compilation of the Torah).

    Again there are problems with the dating. Science shows that the earth is 4.54 billion years ago, but the Bible dates the creation of the earth within 10,000 B.C.

    Or do you discount the proof of fossils?


  109. Hi Everybobdy

    Hi Everybody,

    Greetings in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.

    Very sad to see some dear ones waging war of words against TPM. I got saved in 2004. Before that I would strictly oppose the doctrines of TPM. But God by His mercy enlightened my eyes of understanding by his anointing and scriptures. I am not here to justify, but would like to yes as yes and nay as nay (Jam 5:12). Postings from Susan and Moderator Rachel may offend brethren small in faith. (Mat 18:6, 7). So I voice my view on the truth behind the TPM doctrines.

    “*The women do not preach in church or elsewhere. You see Paul said women were to be silent in church, so the decree: No woman pastors needed. For was not Eve, the first sinner who enticed Adam to sin, a woman? Anyway these worthy disciples of Apostle Paul (who did not get married) and Apostle Peter (who found the ministry more interesting than the cares of domestic life) do not let women preach or talk in church. A woman’s duty is to listen to the men in the church, for are not men the heads of the family like Christ is the head of the church? I wonder how they always manage to come up with verses that suit their convenience. When I quote the Bible that “men and women are equal in the eyes of God,” I’m the “devil quoting the scriptures.”
    By RACHEL

    Rachel in all our faith homes Sr. Sisters or Mothers are conducting regular meetings. For you to know this, you should attend the meeting regularly, not just on Sundays.

    “ If they associate white with purity is black the colour of the devil and the BMWs, which some of their chief pastors own, the machinations of the devil?”
    By Rachel

    Before blaming anyone just check the veraciousness of the information you have gathered Rachel. No way that this could be possible in TPM, may be possible elsewhere.

    “Otherwise I find it hard to interpret their fanatical devotion to misinterpreting the Bible.”
    By Rachel

    Here you say that they misinterpret the bible. But you also say below the foll. words.

    “I don’t need your advise to “Spend some more time reading and meditating on the word of God,” as I did that for 20 years and found the Bible unjust, irrational and factually incorrect.”
    By Rachel

    If someone who says the Bible is unjust, irrational and factually incorrect, then how could Rachel correctly interpret the word of God. I ask the Christians who are reading this blog.

    So we can come to a conclusion that Rachel cant comment on TPM and its activities.

    Now I would like to share certain points with susan.

    Hi SUSAN,

    “JUST BEWARE OF TPM WHICH IS A WORKER-GLORIFYING CULT. THEY DO THIS BY DISTORTING THE SCRIPTURES.”
    By susan

    I will not give my glory to another (Is48:11). Not Unto us, O Lord, not unto us, but unto thy name give glory, (Psm 115:1). This is the teaching that our saints gives then how come we will glorify the workers, who are the messenger of God (II Co 8:23).
    This is what Lord taught me thus far in this spiritual journey.

    Not are all perfect or grown in their spiritual life or in their inner man there are people who are still babes in Christ (I Co 3:1). May be what you have said is true taking into account some of them. I hope you would take the verse in spiritual sense. Our TPM Pastors are well aware of the end for self-glorification. Act 12:23 – here Herod died cos he didn’t give the glory to god. When God doesn’t give His glory to another, then how we would glorify them.

    “CAN A CHRISTIAN WEAR JEWELS? WHAT IS GOD’S WILL? “
    By susan

    Yes a Christian can wear jewels. Nowhere in the bible does it say that wearing jewel is a sin. If Bible doest say so then how we TPM people could say that we shouldn’t wear jewel. Susan you have quoted many thing to support wearing jewels. I am not pasting it here. In our congregation our pastor never says that you should forgo you jewel. In our Lord’s Table or Holy Communion there are many who participate with jewels. There are many believers who were jewels in our church.

    Then why many of the TPM believers are not wearing jewels? It is out of Love towards God. None of them would be persuaded or threatened with any verse to remove it. It is a consecration for our Lord we are making. Nobody can question our consecration to our Lord. Can you? Some may preach that you should remove it. But our Pastors has taught us and instructed us not to force anybody in this matter or for the matter pertaining to divine healing, which I’ll deal with u latter.There are people who say it is a sin to wear jewel. But it is not? Moreover I Tim 2:9 & I Pt 3:3 Exhorts us to forego this. As we’d like to have complete obedience to His laws we are doing it. Does it hurt anyone in obeying Lords word? “If a man keep my saying he shall never see death” (Jn 8 :51). If you Love me, keep my commandments (Jn 14:15).

    Here loving doesn’t mean according to English Oxford Dictionary, but according to what the scripture says. Now a days people doest want to lose anything for the purpose of the Lord’s word. So they try to bring in some erroneous doctrines other than what Bible says (in your case history) to keep what they posses. Moreover God doesn’t judge according to your works but according to your heart.

    In my next comment I would reply your other unwarranted things against TPM.

    With Love
    Sam Robinson. J


  110. Sam Robinson,

    I don’t know if you want me to reply to your comment, since you have said “we can come to a conclusion that Rachel cant comment on TPM and its activities” ;-)


  111. Rachel

    since you are the moderator you own every right to reply.


  112. Sam,

    I was just joking :-)

    About the women not preaching in church:

    You say: In all our faith homes Sr. Sisters or Mothers are conducting regular meetings.

    I say: Women should be given equal authority in church. If men are preaching, women should also be allowed to preach. If men can administer communion, so should women. If men can become pastors, so should women. Relegating women to secondary/ inferior roles of being just prayer support staff does not reflect well on Christian egalitarianism. There are instance in the Bible of women prophetess, women apostles, women judges and women lay preachers. When women could do that in patriarchal set-up more than 2,000 years ago, why not now?

    You say: For you to know this, you should attend the meeting regularly, not just on Sundays.

    I say: I have not stepped inside a church anytime these last three years…ever since I turned atheist.

    You say: If they associate white with purity is black the colour of the devil and the BMWs, which some of their chief pastors own, the machinations of the devil?” By Rachel. Before blaming anyone just check the veraciousness of the information you have gathered Rachel. No way that this could be possible in TPM, may be possible elsewhere.

    I say: It was in a lighter vein. I have seen TPM workers dressed only in white. Some of my friends who used to wear coloured salwars were frowned upon during church services. Soon they started coming to church in the traditional white.

    You say: If someone who says the Bible is unjust, irrational and factually incorrect, then how could Rachel correctly interpret the word of God. I ask the Christians who are reading this blog.

    I say: The Bible is unjust – supporting slavery, patriarchy, etc, irrational and factually incorrect. I was not claiming to correctly interpret the word of God. For me God doesn’t exist…so when I see Christians obsessed with small, small nitty-gritty I wish they could just concentrate on the bigger picture – Christ and his teachings.


  113. Rachel

    You said pastors in BMW. I defended that it cant be true. It would be rather good if you do not comment any untrue thing. You know rachel people get offended when you speak ill of their spiritual fathers. Each has his own belief. Right? If its true then its ok. otherwise better dont publish hearsay comments.


  114. Hi Robinson,

    One of my friends was in the TPM church. Even my grandparents used to be in the TPM church, when it called CPM.
    The cars are not owned by the individual pastors, but by the church.
    I think in the TPM, they are not allowed to own any personal possessions..Right?
    I know people get offended when someone says something ill about their spiritual fathers. But I am not for an ideology which can actually cause the death of individuals because they did not seek medical attention.
    About hearsay…in a way you maybe right, since I have not gone to the TPM church too many times and my sources are other people. But then there’s something vaguely sinister about that church for me.


  115. Bunch of bullying happening here. Turn to God Brothers and Sisters from your wicked ways. God Bless You.


  116. DEAR ROBINSON,

    1) IF WORKERS DO NOT FORCE TO REMOVE JEWELS WHY IS WATER BAPTISM AND COMMUNION NOT GIVEN TO BELIEVERS WEARING JEWELS? PLEASE EXPLAIN

    2) YOU SAID, “Our TPM Pastors are well aware of the end for self-glorification.”

    MY REPLY: YOUR PROBLEM IS YOU JOINED TPM FAIRLY RECENTLY IN 2004. SO I SUGGEST YOU GET AWARE OF ALL TPM DOCTRINES AND CHECK THEM WITH SCRIPTURES. DO NOT MAKE MAKE ANY CONCLUSION BEFORE THAT.

    READ THE MESSAGES ON 18TH DECEMBER ’08, 4TH JAN ’09 AND 8TH JAN ’09 IN THIS BLOG SITE. THEN YOU WILL GET SOME KNOWLEDGE ABOUT TPM’S SELF GLORIFICATION AND THEIR SCRIPTURAL MISINTERPRETATION.

    3) FURTHERMORE TPM DENOUNCES MEDICINES AND DOCTORS AS LACK OF FAITH AND SIN BUT STRANGELY THEY GIVE COMMUNION TO THOUSANDS OF TPM DOCTORS AND NURSES. IS IT TO WELCOME THEIR TITHES INTO THE CHURCH COFFERS? THIS IS THEIR HYPOCRICY.

    FURTHERMORE MANY MORE SCRIPTURAL MISINTERPRETATIONS AND CONTRADICTIONS OF TPM WILL BE ADDRESSED HERE WHICH I BELIEVE WILL OPEN YOUR EYES. GOD BLESS YOU.

    READ ABOUT THEIR MISINTERPRETATIONS, TRUST AND DEPEND ON THE HOLY SPIRIT, IDENTIFY (NOT RATIONALISE) THE TPM FALSE TEACHINGS, LIVE AND SERVE FOR GOD AND LOVE CHRISTIANS OF ALL DENOMINATIONS.


  117. TPM members pls read this….

    http://www.watchman.org/cults/legalismzeal.htm

    I however do respect your zeal, but wonder why you ppl go extra-biblical!!!


  118. Your statements

    “If “Nothing can be created out of Nothing,” How did God originate? What is eternity? How did God create trees, plants, human beings, planets and the universe out of nothing?”—-

    Thats the difference between human and God. God does things beyong man’s imagination and the question on existence of God?? We human are not enough privileged to raise that question on HIS existence. Bible says that “in the latter days men shall be rebellious and would ask for signs”

    Let me explain this to you: Suppose you draw a circle on te piece of paper. This circle is a 2d image. Now if I keep a small cricket ball in front of it, supposing both has got life, the circle would be able to see aother 2d object standing before him, althou the ball is 3d because the circle’s view, strength and perception capability is limited to 2d and not beyond that. Same is the case with man.

    And you say the following:

    “Again there are problems with the dating. Science shows that the earth is 4.54 billion years ago, but the Bible dates the creation of the earth within 10,000 B.C.”

    —The Bible says in the first verse that the “In the BEGINNING God created the heaven and the earth and it was void” Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters”

    Now this so called BEGINNING is still unknown. Bible scientists are still making the research on it. It was void and formless (the theory of all the continents to be one big piece of land and blah blah… may be linked to this)…

    God saw that since it (earth and whole universe that He created “in the BEGINNING”) was formless and void,, He started creating things. bible clearly says that for God 1000 yrs is as 1 day and 1 day as 1000 yrs. What a great stunt!!! I mean.. too good but 7 days was time taken for the creation of life not earth.

    You say:
    “Even in the Vedas & Upanishads, there are texts that the “earth revolves around the sun in space.” Indians had known about the planets and their paths in the universe”

    Ofcourse yes India was one of the countries having very high level of knowledge in stars, its positions ad planets. One of the three wise men was from Indore, India, The study reveals.


  119. For Susan… (bit out of topic of discussion here)

    Susann:–“IF WORKERS DO NOT FORCE TO REMOVE JEWELS WHY IS WATER BAPTISM AND COMMUNION NOT GIVEN TO BELIEVERS WEARING JEWELS? PLEASE EXPLAIN”

    Me:–“Last tpm convention in Panvel saw many believers taking water baptism wearing jewels… Because thier husbands were not saved. They are also allowed to take part in the holy table…. So Susan.. I think you need some brush up of tpm doctrines before you point ur fingers at them”


  120. Jim,

    You say, “Bible scientists are still carrying out research on it.” That means you have no proof, yet you believe.
    So your Christian faith is based on personal conviction not facts.
    Good for you!
    But I don’t have that “belief” or “faith.”
    For me I love the cold comfort of science and facts, hence my “belief” or “disbelief” is different :-)


  121. 1. BELIEVERS WEARING JEWELS ARE GIVEN WATER BAPTISM AND COMMUNION ON A CONDITION. THAT CONDITION IS IF THEIR HUSBANDS ARE NOT YET SAVED.

    2. SO DOES IT MEAN THAT BELIEVERS WHOSE HUSBANDS ARE SAVED ARE ALSO GIVEN BAPTISM AND COMMUNION WITH JEWELS? OR THEY ARE REFUSED BAPTISM AND COMMUNION? PLS EXPLAIN.

    3. MOREOVER, JIM MAY NOT KNOW, MAYBE HE IS NEW;

    IF BELIEVERS (WHOSE HUSBANDS ARE NOT SAVED) ARE GIVEN BAPTISM AND COMMUNION, IT IS NOT PART OF THE DOCTRINE OF TPM BUT THE COMPROMISES THAT TPM HAS MADE RECENTLY. HOPE JIM UNDERSTANDS THAT.

    4. STILL JIM IS VERY QUIET ON WHY COMMUNION IS GIVEN IN TPM FOR THE THOUSANDS OF DOCTORS AND NURSES (WHOM JIM CONSIDERS AS WITCH DOCTORS AND BLACK MAGICIANS). WOULD HE EXPLAIN?


  122. Susan

    you say:BELIEVERS WEARING JEWELS ARE GIVEN WATER BAPTISM AND COMMUNION ON A CONDITION. THAT CONDITION IS IF THEIR HUSBANDS ARE NOT YET SAVED.

    Let me remind you that God has clearly revealed through His scriptures to whom I should keep my fellowship with. And for your above said words, I am saved and anointed, and I got recently married. My wife still takes part in the Lords Table wearing jewels. I am not forcing my wife to put off her jewels, nor did my pastors. All that condition you have mentioned are utter non-sense(only that condition). I would like to keep in touch with you tomorrow to answer all your other comments regarding TPM. For now bye.


  123. Dear Bloggers in Christ,

    Rather than justifying each others so called “TPM & its principles” its better that we take time to answer ask our own conscience what are we really seeking here. I’m not here to comment on what TPM is and what it does, but yes one things sure, Jesus has has come to this world to save our from our bondages and that we may be delivered. Christianity is all about living an Christ like life, we cannot be so called saints, but since we believe in the word of God (Holy Bible) we try to abide by its principles. It was man who has created different Christian dominions and have set thier own principles / doctrines which they feel. Its only the “faith” that takes you to these chruches / donominations. I’m an pentecostal believer and my father was saved by an vision from heaven about 3 men in white and shortly the same person visiting an village the 3rd day. This was truly distined by God. This is not applicable to everyone. Many are called but few are chosen. preaching and have lived in faith since 29 years (not boasting), but its only the grace of God which is leading u. Now if this was destined by God, we would not be abided in this faith. My family lived an pentecostal life foresaking all. All have thier own prospective of faith and every man is happy therein. No one has a right to justify / blame any christian faith.

    Rather than questioning each other, i think its time that we pray that his soul may not be destroyed, but be SAVED, this is what for Jesus came to this world. Let Sacrifice made by Jesus be honoured and understand the deeper truths about his sacrifice for Mankind.

    May God give us grace to have the deeper understanding of our own faith so that we may live with Him forever.

    That who is Holy, Let him be Holy still
    that who is righteous, let him be righteous still
    That who is unjust, let him be unjust still,
    That who is unholy, let him be unholy still,

    Let the name our Lord Jesus be Glorified.

    Richard.


  124. Susan,

    I’m not quite…. but rather wondering.. what is it that u’ve achieved thus far by commenting against tpm and its workers.. Is it some kind of merit?? Anybody certifying you as a critic?? I wud like to know.. I read the answers by Robinson on jewels, long back. I thought as a wise girl, you would have understood the same.

    pork taken in AS medicine??? Theres is a difference between taken in AS medicine and taking medicine in. “Yesterday I went to a medical shop and asked for a piece of pork. The medical shopkeeper called me a fool and rebuked me and told me to goto a “Highway Inn” round the corner where you get the best of pork salami….. Then again I went to the inn and asked for pork-medicine… he looked at me saying… son are you ok??”

    What does this mean.. time and again I’ve been trying to express that pork is just another food as you taken in rice.
    For me rice, dal, chicken all are LIKE medicine. If dont have it, then I might develop serious illness or whatever in the time being…


  125. Hi Rachel C

    “You say, “Bible scientists are still carrying out research on it.” That means you have no proof, yet you believe.
    So your Christian faith is based on personal conviction not facts.
    Good for you!
    But I don’t have that “belief” or “faith.”
    For me I love the cold comfort of science and facts, hence my “belief” or “disbelief” is different “

    Ofcourse Bible scientist are carrying out reseach… And ofcourse proof is there.. “the proof is the existence of Earth and the fossil-study which dates back to billions and billions of years…!!!”

    Christian faith is based on faith ofcourse yes. But in science too there is this concept of “faith” coming into picture… Now if I say… you have a brain, It needs to be prooved according to the demonstratable, empirical, protocols of science. But then I’ve never seen your brain, or touched it or smelt it. In this case I’m sorry to say, science prohibits me to blive that u have a brain… how can i blive in anything that u argue??

    What do you think of the existence of cold? Is there anything called cold?? No. Cold is nothing but the absence of heat. beacuse then u wud have cold–>super cold–> mega cold etc.. but it tocuches a certain point where theres 100% absence of heat and stops. But in case of heat…. you have more heat, super heat, mega heat and so on….

    You say: “For me I love the cold comfort of science and facts, hence my “belief” or “disbelief” is different “

    “This is a clear indication as I mentioned earlier in my post;
    The alternative, is that you are trying to move into an intellectual free zone”

    And you seem to have just ignored my theory of evolution of coca cola can.. anwer the followiing plz… [Taken from external source, encyclopedia and web, Nothing to my credit]

    Q:The person who thinks the Coca Cola can had no designer is:

    a) Intelligent,
    b) Fool,
    c) Has an ulterior motive for denying the obvious

    Did you know that the eye has 40,000,000 nerve endings, the focusing muscles move an estimated 100,000 times a day, and the retina contains 137,000,000 light sensitive cells?

    Charles Darwin said,

    “To suppose that the eye…could have been formed by natural selection, seems, I freely confess, absurd in the highest possible degree.”

    If man cannot begin to make a human eye, how could anyone in his right mind think that eyes formed by mere chance? In fact, man cannot make anything from nothing. We don’t know how to do it. We can re-create, reform, develop . . . but we cannot create even one grain of sand from nothing. Yet, the eye is only a small part of the most sophisticated part of creation-the human body

    George Gallup, the famous statistician, said,

    “I could prove God statistically; take the human body alone; the chance that all the functions of the individual would just happen, is a statistical monstrosity.”

    Albert Einstein said,

    “Everyone who is seriously interested in the pursuit of science becomes convinced that a spirit is manifest in the laws of the universe;a spirit vastly superior to man, and one in the face of which our modest powers must feel humble.”

    Now my test for you….

    A. Do you know of any building that didn’t have a builder?

    ___ YES ___ NO

    B. Do you know of any painting that didn’t have a painter?

    ___ YES ___ NO

    C. Do you know of any car that didn’t have a maker?

    ___ YES ___ NO

    If you answered “YES” for any of the above, give details:

    Could I convince you that I dropped 50 oranges onto the ground and they randomly fell into 10 columns and 5 rows? The logical conclusion is that someone with an intelligent mind put them there. The odds that ten oranges would fall by accident into a straight line are mind-boggling, let alone five rows of ten.

    My test for you; another one

    A. From the atom to the universe, is there order?

    ___ YES ___ NO

    B. Did it happen by accident?

    ___ YES ___ NO

    C. Or, must there have been an intelligent mind?

    ___ YES ___ NO

    D. What are the chances of 50 oranges falling by chance
    into ten rows of five oranges? ______________________

    If you answered “YES” for any of the above, give details

    I’ll come back on this…. [I'm not considering Bible or any holy scriptures of any religions here... Its philosophical... the topic is "if God exists or not"]


  126. Hi Jim,

    You say: “The proof is the existence of Earth and the fossil-study which dates back to billions and billions of years…!!!”

    The proof of the existence of Earth and fossils, which dates back to billions and billions of years, is proof that the Bible’s 7-day creation story cannot be true.

    People, usually believe they have brains because of anatomy reports, post-mortem reports, scans, EMR, etc. If you can find an anatomy reports, post-mortem reports, scans, EMR of God, do get back. Just teasing!

    Absence of heat is cold. Absence of proof of God is atheism!

    This is a clear indication as I mentioned earlier in my post; The alternative, is that you are trying to move into an intellectual free zone. Q:The person who thinks the Coca Cola can had no designer is: a) Intelligent, b) Fool, c) Has an ulterior motive for denying the obvious.”

    Frankly, your comments are insulting. Try to be more Christian (Christ-like not Church-like) in your debate!
    When you debate, attack the ideology, not the person.
    Here ur trying to attack the person and his/her level of intelligence (there are other atheists out here too, so politeness would be appreciated. Then again all of us have degrees plus jobs so we are not retarded or institutionalized).

    “Eye has 40,000,000 nerve endings, the focusing muscles move an estimated 100,000 times a day, and the retina contains 137,000,000 light sensitive cells.”

    So? The human body is complex…Next you quote Darwin, George Gallup and Albert Einstein. What have opinions got to do with facts? (George W Bush says he’s waging a holy war. Does that make the dirty war in Iraq holy?)

    Your logic: Man cannot reproduce everything in nature so there must be a God who created it.
    I say: Your logic is again your opinion. Where are the facts?

    About that test for me (Do remember this is not high-school)

    Do you know of any God, who was not immortal? Where did he/she originate? Does your God have a gender or is he above these things? Does your God procreate?

    Since you say God did not have a creator, man also need not have a creator!

    Next you talk about probability (50 oranges, etc) and then your logic (again your opinion, no fact).

    Since you prefer opinions and not facts, have you heard?

    Baron d’Holbach saying: “All children are born Atheists; they have no idea of God.”

    Or George H. Smith saying: “The man who is unacquainted with theism is an atheist because he does not believe in a god. This category would also include the child with the conceptual capacity to grasp the issues involved, but who is still unaware of those issues. The fact that this child does not believe in god qualifies him as an atheist.”

    Bhagat Singh says: “’Belief’ softens the hardships, even can make them pleasant. In God man can find very strong consolation and support. Without Him, the man has to depend upon himself. To stand upon one’s own legs amid storms and hurricanes is not a child’s play.”

    “If, as you believe, there is an almighty, omnipresent, omniscient and omnipotent God-who created the earth or world, please let me know why did he create it ? This world of woes and miseries, a veritable, eternal combination of numberless tragedies: Not a single soul being perfectly satisfied.
    Pray, don’t say that it is His Law: If he is bound by any law, he is not omnipotent. He is another slave like ourselves. Please don’t say that it is his enjoyment. Nero burnt one Rome. He killed a very limited number of people. He created very few tragedies, all to his perfect enjoyment. And what is his place in History? By what names do the historians mention him? All the venomous epithets are showered upon him. Pages are blackened with invective diatribes condemning Nero, the tyrant, the heartless, the wicked.”
    In what way is God better?


  127. “The proof of the existence of Earth and fossils, which dates back to billions and billions of years, is proof that the Bible’s 7-day creation story cannot be true.”

    Ofcourse yes….. I think you are seldom reading completely what I’m posting….. I said…”The proof of the existence of Earth and fossils, which dates back to billions and billions of years, is proof that the Earth was created in the “BEGINNING”… The “BEGINNING” which is not mentioned in Bible. It says.. God is Alpha and Omega… Having no genesis Bible’s

    And your last question after so much of comparison with tyrants and other kings in the history… “In what way is God better?” is a clear indicaition that you are more of agnostic… knowing that indeed some God exists but dont know who??

    “Absence of proof of God is atheism!” Asking for proof is exactly as you dont have proof for establishing the fact WITH prrof that God doesnt exists…


  128. Ofcourse yes….. I think you are seldom reading completely what I’m posting….. I said…”The proof of the existence of Earth and fossils, which dates back to billions and billions of years, is proof that the Earth was created in the “BEGINNING”… The “BEGINNING” which is not mentioned in Bible. It says.. God is Alpha and Omega… Having no genesis Bible’s

    Fossils are the preserved remains or traces of animals, plants, and other organisms. When these are dated millions of years ago, how did your God create them in 10,000 B.C. as per the Bible?

    <i>”In what way is God better?” is a clear indicaition that you are more of agnostic… knowing that indeed some God exists but dont know who??

    Nothing of that sort! It was a quote from Bhagat Singh, who is again an atheist not an agnostic. For argument’s sake, he was saying if God was there, could he have allowed such horrible things to happen?

    Jim, ur asking for proof? You started this debate on my blog. I told you I was not keen on a debate. You have no proof that God exists. Yet you keep on coming back to me to argue that he does.
    You know that your belief or faith is based on personal conviction and not facts.
    I keep on asking for facts and no facts are forthcoming.
    If you want to believe in God, good for you!
    I don’t believe in God or any other supernatural force.


  129. You have no proof that God exists….. Time and again I’ve been trying to tell you that existence of life is the proof of existence of God….

    Now…. The declaration “There is no God” is what is known as an absolute statement. For an absolute statement to be true, I must have absolute knowledge.

    Here is another absolute statement: “There is no gold in China.” [All from external source... nothing to my credit]

    What do I need to have for that statement to be true?
    A. No knowledge of China.

    ___ YES ___ NO

    B. Partial knowledge of China.

    ___ YES ___ NO

    C. Absolute knowledge of China.

    ___ YES ___ NO

    Agin I see that you are answering to any of my questions….

    Here… “C” is the correct answer. For the statement to be true, I must know that there is no gold in China, or the statement is incorrect. To say “There is no God,” and to be correct in the statement, I must be omniscient.

    I must know how many hairs are upon every head, every thought of every human heart, every detail of history, every atom within every rock…nothing is hidden from my eyes…I know the intimate details of the secret love-life of the fleas on the back of the black cat of Napoleon’s great-grandmother. To make the absolute statement “There is no God.” I must have absolute knowledge that there isn’t one.

    First, almost every question you have about suffering humanity etc., can be adequately answered.

    Second, we have faith in plenty of things we don’t understand.

    Did you understand the mechanics of television before you turned it on? Probably not. You took a step of faith, turned it on, and after it worked, understanding how it worked wasn’t that important. We accept that there are unseen television waves right in front of our eyes. We can’t see them because they are invisible. For them to manifest, we need a receiver, then we can enjoy the experience of television.

    God is not flesh and blood. He is an eternal Spirit-immortal and invisible. Like the television waves, He cannot be experienced until the “receiver” is switched on. Here is something you will find hard to believe: Jesus said, “He who has My commandments and keeps them, he it is who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him” (John 14:21).

    Either that is true or it isn’t. Jesus Christ says that He will manifest Himself to anyone who obeys Him. Approach the subject the same way you approached your first television set. Just take a small step of faith. If it works, enjoy it, if it doesn’t, forget it.

    Or have you an ulterior motive? Could it be that the “atheist” can’t find God, for the same reason a thief can’t find a policeman? Could it be that your love for sin is clouding your good judgment? If the Bible is true, and Jesus Christ has “abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the Gospel,” then you owe it to yourself just to check it out. God will never let you down. Thank you for taking your time in reading my posts….

    Again I say…. “approach the subject the same way you approached your first television set. Just take a small step of faith. If it works, enjoy it, if it doesn’t, forget it.”

    Now I have no regrets… This is my last post….

    Thank you…


  130. existence of life is the proof of existence of God?

    That’s mean you believe God exists in all things? That God exists in every atom? If God exists in man, is man God?


  131. I ASKED THE FOLLOWING CLARIFICATIONS:

    1. BELIEVERS WEARING JEWELS ARE GIVEN WATER BAPTISM AND COMMUNION ON A CONDITION. THAT CONDITION IS IF THEIR HUSBANDS ARE NOT YET SAVED.

    (Was Robinson’s wife given water baptism with her jewels on? He has not answered this yet))

    2. MOREOVER, ROBINSON MAY NOT KNOW THE FOLLOWING, YES HE IS NEW;

    “IF BELIEVERS (WHOSE HUSBANDS ARE NOT SAVED) ARE GIVEN BAPTISM AND COMMUNION, IT IS NOT PART OF THE DOCTRINE OF TPM BUT THE COMPROMISES THAT TPM HAS MADE RECENTLY. HOPE ROBINSON UNDERSTANDS THAT.

    3. STILL JIM IS VERY QUIET ON WHY COMMUNION IS GIVEN IN TPM FOR THE THOUSANDS OF DOCTORS AND NURSES (WHOM JIM CONSIDERS AS WITCH DOCTORS AND BLACK MAGICIANS). WOULD HE EXPLAIN? JIM IS VERY VERY ELUSIVE!! EVEN ROBINSON HASN’T YET ANSWERED THIS!!

    4. MOREOVER ROBINSON HAS NOT ANSWERED ON THE FOLLOWING MESSAGES ON 18TH DECEMBER ‘08, 4TH JAN ‘09 AND 8TH JAN ‘09 IN THIS BLOG SITE. (FALSE DOCTRINE OF MELCHIZEDEK’S CALLING FOR WORKERS)

    5. FURTHERMORE TPM DENOUNCES MEDICINES AND DOCTORS AS LACK OF FAITH AND SIN BUT STRANGELY THEY GIVE COMMUNION TO THOUSANDS OF TPM DOCTORS AND NURSES. IS IT TO WELCOME THEIR TITHES INTO THE CHURCH COFFERS? THIS IS THEIR HYPOCRICY.

    HOPE TO HEAR FROM THEM.


  132. I ASKED THE FOLLOWING CLARIFICATIONS.

    1. BELIEVERS WEARING JEWELS ARE GIVEN WATER BAPTISM AND COMMUNION ON A CONDITION. THAT CONDITION IS IF THEIR HUSBANDS ARE NOT YET SAVED.

    (Was Robinson’s wife given water baptism with her jewels on? He has not answered this yet))

    2. MOREOVER, ROBINSON MAY NOT KNOW THE FOLLOWING, YES HE IS NEW;

    “IF BELIEVERS (WHOSE HUSBANDS ARE NOT SAVED) ARE GIVEN BAPTISM AND COMMUNION, IT IS NOT PART OF THE DOCTRINE OF TPM BUT THE COMPROMISES THAT TPM HAS MADE RECENTLY. HOPE ROBINSON UNDERSTANDS THAT.

    3. STILL JIM IS VERY QUIET ON WHY COMMUNION IS GIVEN IN TPM FOR THE THOUSANDS OF DOCTORS AND NURSES (WHOM JIM CONSIDERS AS WITCH DOCTORS AND BLACK MAGICIANS). WOULD HE EXPLAIN? JIM IS VERY VERY ELUSIVE!! EVEN ROBINSON HASN’T YET ANSWERED THIS!!

    4. MOREOVER ROBINSON HAS NOT ANSWERED ON THE FOLLOWING MESSAGES ON 18TH DECEMBER ‘08, 4TH JAN ‘09 AND 8TH JAN ‘09 IN THIS BLOG SITE. (FALSE DOCTRINE OF MELCHIZEDEK’S CALLING FOR WORKERS)

    5. HOPE RICHARD LEARNS TO ADMIT FALSE DOCTRINES AND REPENT RATHER THAN BLAME THE TRUTH EXPOSURES AS “BLAMING”.

    6. IT IS TPM’S AGE OLD STRATEGY TO BLAME THOSE WHO EXPOSE TRUTH AND CALL THEM “JUDGING AND BLAMING”. IT IS JUST THEIR REFUSAL TO REPENT FROM FALSE DOCTRINES.

    LET TRUTH BE CONSIDERED MORE IMPORTANT THAN MAN-MADE FALSE DOCTRINES SEEN IN TPM.


  133. The declaration “There is no God” is what is known as an absolute statement. For an absolute statement to be true, I must have absolute knowledge.

    I don’t believe in God, I’m an atheist. But I didn’t know that I had to have absolute knowledge to be an atheist.

    There are four forms of practical atheism:
    • Absence of religious motivation—belief in gods does not motivate moral action, religious action, or any other form of action;
    • Active exclusion of the problem of gods and religion from intellectual pursuit and practical action;
    • Indifference—the absence of any interest in the problems of gods and religion; or
    • Ignorance—lacking any idea of gods

    For me, all three of the above reasons apply.
    • Your argument about there is no gold in China, makes you think I belong to the fourth category – Ignorance—lacking any idea of gods. That is also ok. As long as you recognise I’m an atheist that’s fine by me

    You say: To say “There is no God,” and to be correct in the statement, I must be omniscient.

    I say: Sorry, I’m not an invented God to be omniscient. I’m just me with my capabilities and human limitations.

    You say: I must know how many hairs are upon every head, every thought of every human heart, every detail of history, every atom within every rock…nothing is hidden from my eyes…I know the intimate details of the secret love-life of the fleas on the back of the black cat of Napoleon’s great-grandmother. To make the absolute statement “There is no God.” I must have absolute knowledge that there isn’t one.

    I say: I’m not invisible or omnipresent to do all that. Sorry, I don’t believe in God and neither do I have supernatural powers.

    You say: “approach God the same way you approached your first television set. Just take a small step of faith. If it works, enjoy it, if it doesn’t, forget it.”

    I say: It didn’t work. So I have forgotten it!

    Anyway, I’m happy for you if you like Christianity. If something in the Bible comforts you, thats real nice.
    Diff people; diff views; I guess :-)


  134. Susan

    My wife took water baptism with jewels and now she is taking part in the Lords table with jewels. There are many such believers in our church like this. I say it again that wearing jewels is no sin and those who forgo it has no license to enter in heaven just because she is wearing jewel. This is not a rule or condition in TPM.

    I hope all your rags on wearing jewels ends here. so stop posting the same doubt regarding jewels anymore.

    “YOU SAY:FURTHERMORE TPM DENOUNCES MEDICINES AND DOCTORS AS LACK OF FAITH AND SIN BUT STRANGELY THEY GIVE COMMUNION TO THOUSANDS OF TPM DOCTORS AND NURSES. IS IT TO WELCOME THEIR TITHES INTO THE CHURCH COFFERS? THIS IS THEIR HYPOCRICY.”

    First regarding tithes. Make it clear that those who minister in TPM are no ordinary lay men. You pls enquire deeply to know that those who come into this TPM for full time ministry includes doctors, nurses, Engineers, Musicians, MBA’s, M.sc’s, C.A’s, Lecturers and Professors, Business People. We have even crorepatis who had given all their belonging and stepped into this glorious ministry. Even our Centre Pastor was a very rich man. But he left all his riches back and came to lords work like moses did. And with all the leagal documents for the trust, Just a nod from our chief pastors, then millions of dollars would arrive from various International Christian Agencies. I know many of the individual pentecostal ministries are attracting huge amount in this way. But its our policy not to accept any kind of money as donation or fund. Being a son of business man I know very well that there are various agencies awaiting to fund christian organisation in india. Government norms are also very easy. But we dont accept a single penny in this way susan. If you have doubts you can ask anybody for this.

    So your claim on hypocrites for tithes doesnt stand here.

    I have said all those above words not to glorify the ministry or workers or riches awaiting. But for you to know the truth. Not only poor people or illiterates join the ministry, whosoever obeys the Lords Calling enters into this glorious ministry.

    And now your claim on Medicines, Doctors etc.

    susan not all are fully matured in christ. You read about babes in christ (I Co 3:1), these people are not fully spiritual but are newly born in christ through the anointing of the holy ghost. In TPM many believers condemn other ministries, denominations. Once God anoints them and reveals abt this glorious ministry they are full of zeal that others should also know the mystry about Zion and New Jerusalem. In this zeal some dear ones condemn other ministries and or without understanding the whole thing about Divine Healing they move to preach about it. Many are still babes in spiritual life but would like to show as if there were fully matured in christ. This is the main reason why people wage war of words against TPM. I was like this condemning other ministries and denomination before Lord taught me in this subject matter. The Lord spoke to me clearly in this matter.

    We read in I Co 15:41. that the glory of the sun will be different from that of the moon, the glory of one star will differ from the other star. In heaven Lord has prepared places for us. Not same place for everyone. Jn 14:1 Jesus Says ” In my fathers house are many mansions, If it were not so I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you”. In heaven we have different places like Zion, New Jerusalem, New Earth and New heaven. Each one will be allotted a place in heaven according to the life we have had in this world and the closeness we had with Christ. The life which we live here determines the place in heaven for us. For example all the inhabitants of New Jerusalem will not have the same glory. Each one will have a glory according to their maturity in christ. Those who are fully attained the maturity of Christ will enjoy the supreme glory. Maturity to Christ level means our characters transforming into christ-like nature. So only we read the glory will differ from sun to moon, from each star to star.

    To make you more clearer, in a Kings Palace, there will be ministers, treasures and office bearers and so on. Each one will be given a place to sit in that palace. But the person who is sitting near to king can behold him more closely that those sitting in the balcony. In such a way the Glory will differ to each person. This is the concept behind the Divine healing.

    God is not demanding anyone. He has given a free will to choose. Now taking medicine is not a sin. Did God say anywhere in the Bible like that?

    Susan our pastors are the first to go and meet if any of our believers are hospitalized. once they hear the news they will frequently engage themselves in prayer even before their home mates could do. There are aplenty number of Nurses and Doctors in our Churches. The God has said to the Israelites that I am the God that healeth thee (Ex 15:26). So a God faithful in His Promise has healed scores of our believers and ministers without any medicines. We read in( 2Ch 16:12) that Lord was grieved that asa seeked the pysicians in his sick bed and not the Lord. God doesnt Judge us literally but according to our heart. Those who place a higher faith and love on the Lord yield themselves for the Lord to be their Healer in the sick bed. Many of our dear one who were even certified by our believer doctors as no hope of living, God has resurrected them by His power. There are numerous testimony.

    There are many who are little in faith or new to faith in our churches. We dont condemn them for taking medicines. But rather exhorts them to keep their faith on Jesus our Healer.
    Once those weak ones in faith knows the Lord as He is , and when those dear ones start Loving their Lord with all their heart, with all their strength and all their soul, they too will yield for the divine healing.

    Those who live a higher life will receive a greater glory in the eternity. There are many mansions in my Fathers house. If it not were so, I would have said you. I am going to prepare a place for you. He shall reward every man according to his works (Mt16:27). You cant thrust the faith and doctrines on any one. The Lord will not reveal himself to everyone. We cannot behold His face having impurity in our life. If you love me you keep my commandments. For divine healing we need a higher faith. When there is sin in our life we cant have that higher faith in God. One major requisite for that higher faith is Good conscience(I Tim1:19).

    To receive that higher glory we are trusting our Lord Jesus. We all labour here to see Jesus as He is. There is abounding Joy and Peace in His presence. Who would not love to see the king and enjoy His presence in a close proximity? To be with that saviour we are toiling here. So no matter even if our life is on the line we will trust in that living Lord who has called us by name and delivered our soul from outer darkness. Glory be to Jesus.

    There are many things from Bible which exhorts us to yield for Divine Healing.

    I am not typing all these here to Justify us or to wage war, weaker souls may come across this page sometime, they shouldn’t be offended in their faith by your comments. Thats the only reason I am typing susan. And the God who called me by Name has clearly revealed me and gave the vision about Zion and New Jerusalem. Then who can turn us from the fellowship of the Father, Son and the Holy Ghost and from the fellowship of the Apostles.


  135. DEAR ROBINSON,

    1. YOU SAID, “God is not demanding anyone. He has given a free will to choose. Now taking medicine is not a sin. Did God say anywhere in the Bible like that?”

    THEN YOU SAY, “There are many things from Bible which exhorts us to yield for Divine Healing.”

    YOUR ABOVE 2 STATEMENTS APPEAR CONTRADICTORY TO EACH OTHER. WOULD YOU PLS CLARIFY.

    2. JIM PROCLAIMS THAT DOCTORS ARE EQUIVALENT TO WITCH DOCTORS. YOU CAN READ HIS POST ON JAN 7, ’09. BUT HE HAS NOT YET ANSWERED AS TO WHY COMMUNION & BAPTISM IS GIVEN TO THEM. WOULD YOU PLS CLARIFY.

    3. YOU SAID THAT TPM DOES NOT PROHIBIT BAPTISM AND COMMUNION FOR THOSE WEARING JEWELS. IF SO DO THEY PROHIBIT COMMUNION FOR THE WORKERS AND SUNDAY SCHOOL TEACHERS?

    4. REGARDING THE WORKERS’ MELCHIZEDEK’S CALLING. WOULD YOU CLARIFY?

    5. PAUL CLAIMS HIS RIGHT TO GET MARRIED AS THE OTHER APOSTLES. JESUS CALLED MARRIED PEOPLE AS APOSTLES. JESUS NEVER STIPULATED CELIBACY AS A PRECONDITION FOR APOSTLESHIP. THE FOUNDER RAMAN KUTTY WAS MARRIED AND HAD CHILDREN IN THE MINISTRY. WHY IS THEN CELIBACY STIPULATED AS A PRECONDITION FOR A WORKER?

    HOPE TO HEAR YOUR CRISP REPLY IN SHORT.


  136. One word of suggestion to Robinson. Hope he abstains and refrains from referring to doctrinal discussions and highlighting of truth as “condemnations” etc.

    Let not truth be suppressed. Let ways be opened for TPM people to be enlightened regarding the truth and the errors.


  137. SUSAN

    “1. YOU SAID, “God is not demanding anyone. He has given a free will to choose. Now taking medicine is not a sin. Did God say anywhere in the Bible like that?”

    THEN YOU SAY, “There are many things from Bible which exhorts us to yield for Divine Healing.

    ”YOUR ABOVE 2 STATEMENTS APPEAR CONTRADICTORY TO EACH OTHER. WOULD YOU PLS CLARIFY.”

    My comment: I meant that there are verses which gives you the courage and faith to stand for divine healing. Taking Medicine is not a sin, to have a greater glory there are verses which gives faith and courage to get healing from God rather from men. Does it contradict each other?

    “2. JIM PROCLAIMS THAT DOCTORS ARE EQUIVALENT TO WITCH DOCTORS. YOU CAN READ HIS POST ON JAN 7, ‘09. BUT HE HAS NOT YET ANSWERED AS TO WHY COMMUNION & BAPTISM IS GIVEN TO THEM. WOULD YOU PLS CLARIFY.”

    I am in no position to understand Jim’s statement and so I would refrain myself from commenting on it.

    “3. YOU SAID THAT TPM DOES NOT PROHIBIT BAPTISM AND COMMUNION FOR THOSE WEARING JEWELS. IF SO DO THEY PROHIBIT COMMUNION FOR THE WORKERS AND SUNDAY SCHOOL TEACHERS?”

    First of all you can’t be a Worker and a Sunday School Teacher wearing jewels. Wanna know the reasons? Workers and Sunday School Teachers are in a position to lead others close to God. Believers and kids will look unto them for their edification. Its a church which prepares the bride of christ. Zion and New Jerusalem are meant for the Bride of Christ. So Workers and Teachers, filled with the Love of God had forgone the jewels for the sake of Christ. Need further clarification?

    “4. REGARDING THE WORKERS’ MELCHIZEDEK’S CALLING. WOULD YOU CLARIFY?”

    I would like to clarify it, but before that i would like to know your comments on it first.

    “5. PAUL CLAIMS HIS RIGHT TO GET MARRIED AS THE OTHER APOSTLES. JESUS CALLED MARRIED PEOPLE AS APOSTLES. JESUS NEVER STIPULATED CELIBACY AS A PRECONDITION FOR APOSTLESHIP. THE FOUNDER RAMAN KUTTY WAS MARRIED AND HAD CHILDREN IN THE MINISTRY. WHY IS THEN CELIBACY STIPULATED AS A PRECONDITION FOR A WORKER?”

    From the above two statement of yours, I could understand that you must have left CPM/TPM for a reason. I may not know the reason, but you must have been a former member of the body of Christ. I am sure you know the doctrines behind your 4th and 5th statements. But you are here to find faults in the TPM Doctrines and Principles. So you go this way.

    First you tell the shortcoming or misinterpretations or whatever you find in our doctrines, then according to the Grace God bestowed upon me I will explain.

    “One word of suggestion to Robinson. Hope he abstains and refrains from referring to doctrinal discussions and highlighting of truth as “condemnations” etc.”

    Can you make it clear.

    “Let not truth be suppressed. Let ways be opened for TPM people to be enlightened regarding the truth and the errors.”

    R u saying now the doctrines of Jewels and Divine healing are wrong? Tell us in what way should the Lord enlighten us or else in what matter?

    “HOPE TO HEAR YOUR CRISP REPLY IN SHORT.”
    I am trying to be short but whatever statement the Lord puts in my heart I will type.


  138. Susan

    A small example for you, so that you may stop criticizing on the saints or the people who are doing Lords work. Because TPM workers are called and chosen by God Himself. They are saints or apostles of God.

    In Gen 9:21-27 – we read Noah was drunk and was uncovered within the tents. His son Ham looked at it and went out to inform this matter to his two brothers.
    And Shem and Japheth took a garment, and laid it upon both their shoulders, and went backward, and covered the nakedness of their father; and their faces were backward, and they saw not their father’s nakedness. And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him. And he said, Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren. And he said, Blessed be the LORD God of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant. God shall enlarge Japheth, and he shall dwell in the tents of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.

    When you find fault in the saints the Lord has kept before you, you are no one to tell their faults to anyone. Its the Lords work and He knows how to deal with it. He knows whether to correct them or punish them. If you are so much concerned about the matter you pray to God so that the Lord may forgive them or correct them or He teaches you whether you have mistaken them.

    Your tone in this Blog is like you are spending your whole time in blaming the doctrines God has delivered to the saints and the consecration they are making out of love. Its not like you are vessel to God. You are blaming the Lords Chosen vessel. If ever you did find fault in them or in their doctrines God didnt allow you to criticize them. Anyway awaiting your comments for your 4th and 5th statements.


  139. Susan

    A small example for you, so that you may stop criticizing on the saints or the people who are doing Lords work. Because TPM workers are called and chosen by God Himself. They are saints or apostles of God.

    In Gen 9:21-27 – we read Noah was drunk and was uncovered within the tents. His son Ham(canaan) looked at it and went out to inform this matter to his two brothers.
    And Shem and Japheth took a garment, and laid it upon both their shoulders, and went backward, and covered the nakedness of their father; and their faces were backward, and they saw not their father’s nakedness. And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him. And he said, Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren. And he said, Blessed be the LORD God of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant. God shall enlarge Japheth, and he shall dwell in the tents of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.

    When you find fault in the saints the Lord has kept before you, you are no one to tell their faults to anyone,lest you be cursed.Its the Lords work and He knows how to deal with it. He knows whether to correct them or punish them. If you are so much concerned about the matter you pray to God so that the Lord may forgive them or correct them or He teaches you whether you have mistaken them.

    Your tone in this Blog is like you are spending your whole time in blaming the doctrines God has delivered to the saints and the consecration they are making out of love. Its not like you are vessel to God. You are blaming the Lords Chosen vessel. If ever you did find fault in them or in their doctrines God didnt allow you to criticize them. Anyway awaiting your comments for your 4th and 5th statements.


  140. ROBINSON

    HOPE YOU STOP USING THE TACTIC OF ACCUSING ME (TO ESCAPE FROM THE MATTER IN HAND) AND INSTEAD DEBATE PROPERLY:

    1. YOU SAID, “Taking Medicine is not a sin, to have a greater glory there are verses which gives faith and courage to get healing from God rather from men.”

    WHERE DOES THE BIBLE SAY THAT THERE IS GREATER GLORY IF MEDICINES ARE REFUSED? POINT ME TO THE VERSE.

    2. YOU REFRAIN FROM COMMENTING ABOUT JIM’S STATEMENT BECAUSE MAYBE YOU DO NOT WANT TO OFFEND HIM THOUGH YOU KNOW THAT HE TALKS NONSENSE WHEN HE CALLS DOCTORS AS WITCHES.

    3. YOU SAID, “Zion and New Jerusalem are meant for the Bride of Christ.”

    DOES IT MEAN THAT YOUR WIFE WHO WEARS JEWELS CANNOT ENTER THESE PLACES WHICH YOU MENTIONED?

    BECAUSE YOUR WIFE WEARS JEWELS DOES IT MEAN THAT SHE SHOULD NOT LEAD A LIFE OF EDIFICATION TO OTHERS AND TO CHILDREN?

    WHERE DOES THE BIBLE SAY THAT BELIEVERS OTHER THAN WORKERS AND SUNDAY SCHOOL TEACHERS ONLY CAN WEAR JEWELS? PLS ANSWER.

    4. REGARDING THE FALSE DOCTRINE OF MELCHIZEDEK CALLING FOR WORKERS MY COMMENTS ARE IN 18TH DECEMBER ‘08, 4TH JAN ‘09 AND 8TH JAN ‘09 IN THIS BLOG SITE. YOU CAN READ AND RESPOND.

    5. I STATED, “PAUL CLAIMS HIS RIGHT TO GET MARRIED AS THE OTHER APOSTLES. JESUS CALLED MARRIED PEOPLE AS APOSTLES. JESUS NEVER STIPULATED CELIBACY AS A PRECONDITION FOR APOSTLESHIP. THE FOUNDER RAMAN KUTTY WAS MARRIED AND HAD CHILDREN IN THE MINISTRY. WHY IS THEN CELIBACY STIPULATED AS A PRECONDITION FOR A WORKER?”

    JUST REPLY TO THE ABOVE. DO NOT CRITICISE ME AND TRY TO ESCAPE FROM AN ANSWER WHEN IT APPEARS THAT YOU DO NOT HAVE AN ANSWER.

    STOP DEFENDING TPM WORKERS MEANINGLESSLY. SHOW YOUR ZEAL FOR CHRIST RATHER THAN FOR TPM WORKERS. LET TRUTH BE MORE IMPORTANT THAN WORKERS.


  141. on January 13, 2009 at 5:25 am rachel varghese

    Hope Robinson does not involve in cheap accusing tactics just like Jim did when scriptural and doctrinal misinterpretations are put to the test.

    Remember, there will be no one who will buy into your tactic. All are watching. Instead of giving an appropriate reply if you accuse lamely, people do in fact easily notice that.

    If you do not have a reply, just yeild to truth. Or just say that you do not have an answer. Instead of that do not accuse.

    That shows that have nothing more to debate. Do not cover up your lack of content or the misinterpretations by involving in making sweeping accusations that deviates from the topic in hand.

    Stick to and focus on the topic.


  142. i go to the tpm in australia


  143. “Hope Robinson does not involve in cheap accusing tactics just like Jim did when scriptural and doctrinal misinterpretations are put to the test.

    Rachel, What do you mean by the above statement??? “scriptural and doctrinal misinterpretations are put to the test”??? what is it?? Please explain….

    I’m continuosly reading all the posts… All that is.. I’ve stopped posting on athiesm. Because I tried and opened all the doors of options for Rachel Chitra to get her eyes opened… She even just took a small step of faith (Hope she did). It never worked for her…

    What kind of debate you want to have now?? tpm?? what pleasure does it give you?? How has this helped you to open the eyes of an athiest (Rachel)?? you are trying and opening the eyes of poeple?? How many have got their eyes opened…?? You better read Ps.14:1 (for Rachel Chitra too)… and then ask yourself if the time you are spending on these debate is worth…

    Jim.


  144. on January 17, 2009 at 12:48 pm rachel varghese

    DEAR BROTHER JIM

    What pleasure does it give you TO DEFEND TPM IRRATIONALLY?? How has this helped you to open the eyes of THE TPM BELIEVERS AND WORKERS?? ARE you are trying and opening the eyes of TPM poeple?? How many have got their eyes opened…?? You better read HEB 4: 16 AND HEB 10:19 and then ask yourself if the time you are spending on YOUR USELESS DEFENSE OF TPM IDENTITY is worth YOUR TIME?

    1. PLEASE STOP YOUR IDOLATRY OF TPM’S FALSE DOCTRINE OF WORKERS-IN-THE-ORDER-OF-MELCHIZEDEK.

    2. PLEASE ALSO STOP CALLING DOCTORS AS BLACK MAGICIANS. IF DOCTORS ARE BLACK MAGICIANS ASK TPM TO STOP GIVING COMMUNION TO THE DOCTORS AND NURSES IN TPM.

    3. ANSWER TO THIS:

    IT WAS STATED, “PAUL CLAIMS HIS RIGHT TO GET MARRIED AS THE OTHER APOSTLES. JESUS CALLED MARRIED PEOPLE AS APOSTLES. JESUS NEVER STIPULATED CELIBACY AS A PRECONDITION FOR APOSTLESHIP. THE FOUNDER RAMAN KUTTY WAS MARRIED AND HAD CHILDREN IN THE MINISTRY. WHY IS THEN CELIBACY STIPULATED AS A PRECONDITION FOR A WORKER?”

    4. I AM ALSO WAITING FOR ROBINSON’S REPLY TO SUSAN’S QUESTIONS.

    GOD BLESS YOU JIM. RATHER THAN USE THE STRATEGY OF ACCUSATION, STICK TO THE TOPIC IN HAND.


  145. Heb 10:19 says: My friends, the blood of Jesus gives us courage to enter the most holy place 20by a new way that leads to life! And this way takes us through the curtain that is Christ himself.

    This is so good… So whts wrong in this??

    21st says: We have a great high priest who is in charge of God’s house. 22So let’s come near God with pure hearts and a confidence that comes from having faith. Let’s keep our hearts pure, our consciences free from evil, and our bodies washed with clean water. 23We must hold tightly to the hope that we say is ours. After all, we can trust the one who made the agreement with us.

    and 24th says: We should keep on encouraging each other to be thoughtful and to do helpful things. 25Some people have gotten out of the habit of meeting for worship, but we must not do that. We should keep on encouraging each other, especially since you know that the day of the Lord’s coming is getting closer.

    “Are you encouraging each other or falling into accusation games wasting precious time when coming of our Lord is so very near?? Who says or calls doctors as black magicians?? I explained you the origin of the word “medicine”. Its YOU who concluded this senselessness as always… because not all doctors prescribe medicines… they examine, prescribe and advice about the have(s)/have not(s) of the food habits.

    About Paul of Corinthians…

    What do you conclude?? Did Paul get marry?? NO.. Why??? because thats HIS way of consecration… and tpm workers chose that to be the most examplary way of consecration… No one has got the authority to question anyone’s personal way of consecration. There are many workers in tpm too who are married… But since this is the best way of consecration as defined by Paul by LIVING that way, most of them have chosen that and now considered to be a protocol in tpm. Do you have any personal problem with this protocol??

    And most of all…. Who is defending or offending tpm here??? Its all about refraining and trying to refrain others from this kind of devil’s work.

    And what do you think… that all other churches are free from all kind of scriptual misintepretations??? Are they all perfect and holy?? Just do let me know the name of the church you go and I’ll explain you the scriptual and doctrinal distortions there…. But I wont do that cos its a very bad game and devil’s work.. Wisdom is to refrain from these. And you too refarain from them.


  146. Robinson…

    I’ve been reading your posts right from the beginning… It makes high level of sense compared to the accusation-game that some sisters are playing in here… Shall we pray for them… tpm MIGHT be having some negativeness so does it has 100 times more in other churches too… Rememer.. Although we may be going to tpm church every Sunday, we belong to Christ’s body and not some tpm or any church. Jesus is never going to come seeking for tpm believers. His second coming is for them who has finished a good race and… Zion for them… “Who lived like Him”

    My humble suggestion: Never be defensive or offensive… Just keep yourself in the diplomatic stand… Remember once you start defend or offend, the devil’s work begins. “This is my experience” I want to see how far the devil would make them play this game. Meanwhile all we can do is pray for them. Every good/bad thing that begins has an end too…


  147. JIM

    1. FIRSTLY, IT IS DEVIL’S WORK TO CLAIM THAT DOCTORS IN TPM NEVER PRESCRIBE MEDICINES. THEY HAVE UNDERGONE TRAINING AND CERTIFICATION TO PRESCRIBE MEDICINES.

    2. SECONDLY, THE EXEMPLARY LIFE OF CELIBACY WHICH YOU CLAIM FOR TPM WORKERS WAS NOT FOLLOWED BY THE TPM FOUNDER RAMAN KUTTY PAUL. DID HE LACK AN EXEMPLARY LIFE?

    IF CELIBACY IS EXEMPLARY AS YOU FALSELY CLAIM, THEN JESUS WOULD NOT HAVE CALLED MARRIED PEOPLE AS APOSTLES. IF CELIBACY WAS EXEMPLARY THEN PAUL WOULD NOT HAVE STATED THAT APOSTLES WERE MARRIED AND HAD THE AUTHORITY TO BE MARRIED.

    PAUL TALKED ABOUT CELIBACY IN 1 CORINTHIANS 7 TO BELIEVERS AND NOT TO THE FULL TIME TPM WORKERS. DEVIL WANTS TO CONFUSE THE SCRIPTURES. DO NOT BE HIS TOOL!!

    3. THIRDLY, JIM AND ROBINSON, WHO PRAISE EACH OTHER FOR THE FALSE REASONS, ARE VERY SILENT ABOUT THE FALSE DOCTRINE AND DECEPTION OF “MELCHIZEDEK’S CALLING FOR TPM WORKERS”.

    4. ROBINSON SAID, “Zion and New Jerusalem are meant for the Bride of Christ.”

    DOES HE MEAN THAT HIS WIFE WHO WEARS JEWELS CANNOT ENTER THESE PLACES WHICH YOU MENTIONED?

    BECAUSE HIS WIFE WEARS JEWELS DOES IT MEAN THAT SHE SHOULD NOT LEAD A LIFE OF EDIFICATION TO OTHERS AND TO CHILDREN?

    WHERE DOES THE BIBLE SAY THAT BELIEVERS OTHER THAN WORKERS AND SUNDAY SCHOOL TEACHERS ONLY CAN WEAR JEWELS? COULD HE ANSWER.

    5. ROBINSON SAID, “Taking Medicine is not a sin, to have a greater glory there are verses which gives faith and courage to get healing from God rather from men.”

    WHERE DOES THE BIBLE SAY THAT THERE IS GREATER GLORY IF MEDICINES ARE REFUSED? POINT ME TO THE VERSE.

    CONCLUSION: SATAN WANTS TO HIDE THE FALSE DOCTRINES IN TPM FROM BEING EXPOSED. JUST BEWARE OF THAT STRATEGY. HAVE ZEAL FOR TRUTH RATHER THAN FOR TPM AND THEIR FALSE DOCTRINES.

    TRUTH TAKES YOU TO HEAVEN NOT TPM!!


  148. I DO READ THE POSTINGS HERE AND FEEL THAT SUSAN AND RACHEL DO GIVE AN ACCURATE PRESENTATION BOTH ABOUT THE HISTORY OF TPM AND ABOUT THE FALSE DOCTRINES OF TPM.

    IT IS BETTER TO UNDERSTAND THE FOLLOWING REGARDING TPM:

    FIRST OF ALL, TPM BELIEVERS DO NOT WANT THE FALSE DOCTRINES IN TPM TO BE EXPOSED. THUS THEY LOVE TO “FEEL GOOD” ABOUT TPM RATHER THAN FACE THE TRUTH AND GIVE UP THEIR FALSE DOCTRINES.

    THEY ALSO WANT GLORY TO GO THE WORKERS RATHER THAN TO GOD.

    THEY JUST PRETEND TO LOVE TRUTH BUT IN ACTUALITY, THEY CRAVE TO SING PRAISES ABOUT THE CONSECRATION OF THE WORKERS.

    TPM CRAVES FOR AN IDENTITY FOR THEIR DENOMINATION. THEY WANT TO PROJECT THEMSELVES AS “SUPERIOR”.

    MOREOVER, THEY CRAVE TO KEEP THEIR BELIEVERS TOTALLY DEPENDENT UPON THE WORKERS LIKE SUCKLING BABES.

    IT IS THE ABOVE ATTITUDES THAT HAS LED THEM AND FORCED THEM TO FABRICATE MANY FALSE DOCTRINES TO SUIT THEIR “FALSE IMAGE” WHICH THEY HAVE CREATED FOR THEMSELVES.

    TPM WILL BE DELIVERED WHEN THEY GIVE UP THEIR CRAVING FOR “SUPERIORITY” AND THEIR CRAVING TO KEEP THEIR BELIEVERS LIKE BABIES DEPENDENT ON WORKERS.

    MAY GOD OPEN THE EYES OF TPM BELIEVERS WHO VISIT THIS SITE ESPECIALLY THE YOUNG GIRLS AND BOYS WHO ARE DECEIVED.

    ON BEHALF OF RESOURCE CENTRE, SUSAN AND RACHEL, KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK.


  149. “Truth takes you to heaven not tpm!!! Thats what my message is….

    You better read what I wrote to Brother Robinson… The second coming of Christ is not for tpm but for…. (u know the rest)

    PAUL TALKED ABOUT CELIBACY IN 1 CORINTHIANS 7 TO BELIEVERS AND NOT TO THE FULL TIME TPM WORKERS. DEVIL WANTS TO CONFUSE THE SCRIPTURES. DO NOT BE HIS TOOL!!

    This is what I’ve been trying to tell you since loong… tpm workers are those believers who personally chose to be in that manner and do full time ministry. So if you are a believer, why dont you also follow what Paul said in Corinthians?? If you do, you’ll also become like one of them. That is a SIMPLE rather COMMON sense.

    “IF CELIBACY WAS EXEMPLARY THEN PAUL WOULD NOT HAVE STATED THAT APOSTLES WERE MARRIED AND HAD THE AUTHORITY TO BE MARRIED.”

    But then again the question is… did he get marry?? Did Jesus get marry?? May be tpm workers went for the best consecration like our High Priest Jesus and St. Paul…

    Again my message for you is same “truth takes you to heaven and not tpm or some rachel or susan or any kind of blame-games”


  150. TPM WILL BE DELIVERED WHEN THEY GIVE UP THEIR CRAVING FOR “SUPERIORITY” AND THEIR CRAVING TO KEEP THEIR BELIEVERS LIKE BABIES DEPENDENT ON WORKERS.

    I really find it very difficult to believe this. Do you know Bro. David that we have area meetings every week where one of the senior believer conduct and lead the meetings?? We are taught to pray for all our needs ourselves and we are totally independant when it comes to praying for our needs and wishes.

    TPM CRAVES FOR AN IDENTITY FOR THEIR DENOMINATION. THEY WANT TO PROJECT THEMSELVES AS “SUPERIOR”.

    Now what if tpm has got its identity worldwide??? It s called prosperity of Lord’s work. Its the work of Holy spirit and high level of obedience which binds the whole ministry of tpm world-wide… Are you jealous?? Refrain from that siprit.. It s the sign of satan is lurking around you.

    THEY ALSO WANT GLORY TO GO THE WORKERS RATHER THAN TO GOD.

    This is 100% false accusation. The devil’s work at its best !!!

    ON BEHALF OF RESOURCE CENTRE, SUSAN AND RACHEL, KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK.

    Let me remind this to both our sisters… This is 100% devil’s comment to “keep up the good work”.. get your eyes opened.


  151. Brother David..

    TPM WILL BE DELIVERED WHEN THEY GIVE UP THEIR CRAVING FOR “SUPERIORITY” AND THEIR CRAVING TO KEEP THEIR BELIEVERS LIKE BABIES DEPENDENT ON WORKERS.

    I really find it very difficult to believe this. Do you know Bro. David that we have area meetings every week where one of the senior believer conduct and lead the meetings?? We are taught to pray for all our needs ourselves and we are totally independant when it comes to praying for our needs and wishes.

    TPM CRAVES FOR AN IDENTITY FOR THEIR DENOMINATION. THEY WANT TO PROJECT THEMSELVES AS “SUPERIOR”.

    Now what if tpm has got its identity worldwide??? It s called prosperity of Lord’s work. Its the work of Holy spirit and high level of obedience which binds the whole ministry of tpm world-wide… Are you jealous?? Refrain from that siprit.. It s the sign of satan is lurking around you.

    THEY ALSO WANT GLORY TO GO THE WORKERS RATHER THAN TO GOD.

    This is 100% false accusation. The devil’s work at its best !!!

    ON BEHALF OF RESOURCE CENTRE, SUSAN AND RACHEL, KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK.

    Let me remind this to both our sisters… This is 100% devil’s comment to “keep up the good work”.. get your eyes opened.


  152. “Make yourself an honest man (women), and then you may be sure there is one less rascal in the world”.
    Thomas Carlyle

    “The hand we work is holier than the mouth we speak”

    MG


  153. JIM (WHO ACTS AS A DEVIL’S AGENT TO SUPPRESS TRUTH ) HAS NOT UNDERSTOOD MY QUERY.

    1. PAUL TALKED ABOUT CELIBACY BUT HE NEVER TOLD LIES WHICH TPM DOES WHEN TPM SAYS THAT CELIBACY IS A PRECONDITION FOR FULL TIME MINISTRY.

    DOES TPM ALLOW MARRIAGE FOR WORKERS IF AS YOU PRETEND THAT TPM ALLOWS FREEWILL IN THE MATTER OF CELIBACY?

    2. JESUS NEVER ADVOCATED CELIBACY AS A PRECONDITION TO APOSTLESHIP. SUCH A PRECONDITION IS A FABRICATION OF TPM JUST TO BOAST ABOUT THEIR IDENTITY.

    PAUL CLAIMS HIS AUTHORITY TO MARRY. BUT TPM DOES NOT ALLOW MARRIAGE FOR WORKERS. RAMAN KUTTY WAS NEVER A CELIBATE. THUS TPM IS BLATANTLY DISTORTING SCRIPTURE AND THE TPM FOUNDER’S VISION.

    3. TPM HAS NOT GIVEN UP THEIR LIE OF THEIR FALSE DOCTRINE OF MELCHIZEDEK CALLING FOR WORKERS AND UNTIL THAT ALL CLAIMS OF BELIEVER INDEPENDENCE IS AN EYEWASH.

    4. TPM IS A SMALL PUDDLE OF A LOT OF FALSE DOCTRINES IN COMPARISON TO THE POPULATION OF THE ENTIRE PENTECOSTAL COMMUNITY WORLDWIDE. TPM IS NOT EVEN 2 % OF THE WHOLE PENTECOSTAL POPULATION WORLDWIDE. SO IT IS NOT JEALOUSY BUT RATHER YOUR VAIN PRIDE ABOUT TPM. AND MOST OF THEIR SOUL WINNING IS BY STEALING SHEEP FROM OTHER DENOMINATIONS BY BOASTING ABOUT THEIR FALSE SUPERIORITY.

    JUST BEWARE OF JIM WHO IS A TPM GLORIFIER RATHER THAN ONE WHO PURSUES TRUTH. HE IS AN ACCUSER OF THOSE WHO SPEAK TRUTH.


  154. Jim,

    I’m just curious..I thought you said you were not a full-time member of TPM and you rarely go to church. Correct me, if I am wrong…but somewhere along the lines I got the idea that Anil was a Methodist and you were not a regular church-goer.
    Not that going to church or not going to church has anything to do with your relationship with Christ…But its just that if you didn’t go to church that often, I don’t see why you are so upset about the comments here..


  155. I’m just curious..I thought you said you were not a full-time member of TPM and you rarely go to church

    Full-time “member” ?? I didnt get that point. You dont need to be a member of tpm as far as I know. Although not regular but I do go to church and I know about the glorious ministry compared to many other pentacostal denominations. I’ve been to many other pentacostal churches where my friends go. ‘Rajasthan Pentacostal Mission’ belongs to my Brother-in-Law in Udaipur. But then since years I’ve seen and experienced that tpm ministry is the most glorious one.

    David says “TPM IS NOT EVEN 2 % OF THE WHOLE PENTECOSTAL POPULATION WORLDWIDE” This is something like whole bunch of pentacostal denomination churches compared with some little of tpm. And again… all these bunch of pentacostal denominations fight among themselves pointing each other’s faults and shortcomings. But the question is… which pentacostal ministry has the most well-coordinated and properly channeled ministry world-wide with one apostle controling from Chennai-India?. Not even catholics match this order of obedient-ministry. This is because… its not the work of man but Holy Spirit which purely guides them.

    But its just that if you didn’t go to church that often, I don’t see why you are so upset about the comments here..

    I’m not concerned about the comments here but the people who do that. I always wonder how they benefit when the ‘Coming of Our Lord’ is so very near, when clear signs of finacial meltdowns, rumours of war, poverty and so on are showing up.

    David,

    Your comment:(entire one is same as Susan and Rachel who does ‘copy-paste’ of each other’s comments) TPM SAYS THAT CELIBACY IS A PRECONDITION FOR FULL TIME MINISTRY. Its not a “PRECONDITION ” but its something which is expected from those who want to do full-time ministry. its comfortable too to hold together the ministry. Ministry doesnt want disobedience when a pastor is given transfer, ,ministry doesnt want futher problems which arises due to family issues and other head-achs of workers.

    If you want to do full time ministry with the family, you can do. Its not a sin or something forbidden. There are so many saints of God and evagelists doing the ministry who are married and have family.

    But then again… I would request Brother David to refrain from ‘copy-paste’ these statements from Rachel and Susan’s postings. I’ve compared them.. Most of the statements are exactly the same.


  156. TPM IS NOT EVEN 2 % OF THE WHOLE PENTECOSTAL POPULATION WORLDWIDE”

    This is something like whole bunch of pentacostal denomination churches compared with some little of tpm.

    Thannk you for this privilege, which I humbly decline.


  157. Jim,

    Sorry for asking again, but I want to know if you belong to the TPM which was earlier CPM or the Pentecostal Mission, which has its base in Chennai.
    To clarify, I think all of us here were discussing the TPM/CPM and not the activities of the Pentecostal Mission in Chennai. Ok: To further clarify – the TPM/CPM has a huge church in Irumbuilyur on the outskirts of the city, near Tamabaram. The Pentecostal Mission is in Purasawalkam in Chennai.
    The reason I want to know is because the TPM/CPM is far more radical than the Chennai Penetcostal Mission……and we don’t want to be barking up the wrong tree


  158. This is something like whole bunch of pentacostal denomination churches compared with some little of tpm. And again… all these bunch of pentacostal denominations fight among themselves pointing each other’s faults and shortcomings. But the question is… which pentacostal ministry has the most well-coordinated and properly channeled ministry world-wide with one apostle controling from Chennai-India?.

    Are you claiming the TPM has the most organised church? I thought the TPM had the maximum in-fighting among the Pentecostal churches. I remember Pastor Alwin was very pro-Singhalese and banned Tamil in the worship services…Later due to his extreme anti-Tamil, pro-Singhalese stance he was ex-communicated from the church by Freddy Paul and went to the US. And I thought there was a fight between Freddy Paul and Phillip Chandrapillai. Phillip Chandrapillai died a few days later from injuries sustained in the fight.
    Then again the fight over the name change from CPM to TPM.

    Not even catholics match this order of obedient-ministry.

    Obedient-Ministries are not be applauded. Absolute, un-questioned obedience paves the way for maximum spiritual, emotional, physical and sometimes sexual abuse.
    I am an Ex-Pentecostal myself (though from AG and not TPM) so I do know what I am talking about. The more obedient the congregation, the more they are laying themselves open for spiritual abuse.

    This is because… its not the work of man but Holy Spirit which purely guides them.

    Are you saying that the other Ministries like the Lutheran Church, Assemblies of God, New Life Fellowship or the Catholic church are not guided by the Holy Spirit?

    Are these other Ministries the work of man, and not guided by God?


  159. Is it rachel Chitra commenting?? How are you concerned?? How are you benefitted in any way from this discussion?? You are an athiest right??

    And I thought there was a fight between Freddy Paul and Phillip Chandrapillai. Phillip Chandrapillai died a few days later from injuries sustained in the fight.
    Then again the fight over the name change from CPM to TPM

    I’ve elaborately explained many times about the name change from cpm to tpm and why it had to take place.

    About pas. Allwyn being ex-communicated from the ministry, there are many… not just Alwyn who has been ex-communicated. And this is so true. the fight betn and Fredy and Pas Philip is being again and again taken to the topic… the fights in tpm ofcourse takes place often are just countable in the finger tips. But in other pentacostal denomination churches??? forget finger-tips, hair-tips would be less for its counting for very sure…


  160. Are you saying that the other Ministries like the Lutheran Church, Assemblies of God, New Life Fellowship or the Catholic church are not guided by the Holy Spirit?

    Are these other Ministries the work of man, and not guided by God?

    This post of yours is a pure proof that you believe in God. But your ego and the pride of your knowledge reigns over you… (Read Ps. 14:1)

    And please dont you talk of New life Fellowships… I happened to hear one New life’s pastor’s testimony… He says.. God blessed me with a TV and DVD player…


  161. Its me alright! One of the factors in my turning atheist, was the strict, legalistic doctrine and total lack of sympathy in most churches.
    About the discussion, I felt your claim that TPM was most organised was not true. All churches have their strengths and weakness. And as Christians it might be better to admit the weaknesses and work towards strengthening the church, than to think “my Church is perfect, the other churches are not.”


  162. Are you saying that the other Ministries like the Lutheran Church, Assemblies of God, New Life Fellowship or the Catholic church are not guided by the Holy Spirit?

    Are these other Ministries the work of man, and not guided by God?

    Jim,

    Maybe it would be clear if I had written:

    Are you saying that the other Ministries like the Lutheran Church, Assemblies of God, New Life Fellowship or the Catholic church are not guided by your (Jim’s) Holy Spirit?

    Are these other Ministries the work of man, and not guided by your (Jim’s) God?

    Sorry to say, I’m still an atheist!

    God blessed me with a TV and DVD player.
    That was hilarious :-)
    I remember one of our college profs in the religious studies class thanked God For “a nice Estello, in replacement of the other Maruti 800 car, which thanks to God she was able to sell at a good price……God keep these girls away from boys. Let them not lust. Let them marry all the boys their parents choose for them”
    We had to stuff hankies into our mouths to stop ourselves from laughing! :-)


  163. Even, my grandma believed in praying for trivial things. She would pray “the biriyani was cooked nicely” …”the clothes in Sarvanna stores will be cheap and within our budget”…..”that we catch the train on time.”
    The best prayer came from my aunt. She wrote a letter saying, “Thank God, we got a Green Card. Praise the Lord we are now American citizens and have nothing to fear…”
    Don’t ask me what they had to fear in India :-)

    I still can’t stop grinning over your “God blessed me with a TV and DVD player” comment.
    I thought your (Jim’s) Christ was all about renouncing the material world and fighting in the spiritual realm.
    Sorry, if I am wrong but materialism is the basis of Karl Marx’s socialism. It was Engel’s who advocated spiritualism. So when these people pray for all the goodies of the world, I wonder where your (Jim’s) Christ is? Did he not say it is tougher for a rich man to enter (your) heaven than for a camel to enter the needle of an eye.


  164. And Jim you shouldn’t be suprised about my knowledge of the “power plays” in the Pentecostal churches, I have been in the Christian circuit for 20 years now. Its not like I am outsider just because I’m an atheist…I was very much a close observer of the “power dynamics” in both Pentecostal and Anglican churches as many of my close relatives have held some position of authority in diff churches.


  165. Ok. the 20 is a bit of an exaggeration…I left the church when I was 20…so I can maybe say that for the last 5 to 10 years I have observed whats going on in the church circuit


  166. Rachel Chitra,

    Its more like being rebellious against the churches because of your bad experiences there than being an athiest. I say this because, if you are advocating that theres no God, and that you are an athiest, then existence of any church would be senseless for you. When you are saying “my God” or “His God”, what exactly do you conclude??

    If you read my posting carefully, I’ve clearly mentioned there that tpm MIGHT have negativess but so do 100 times more in other churches too… and that when Christ comes He’s not going to look around for any tpm or any pentacostal denominations but people…. (you know the rest). I’ve been diplomatic and dont want to turn offensive against any individual or denominations.

    And yes.. My Lord talks about spiritual blessings and not material blessings but then when you are in this world, My Lord provides what is required for a living and prosperity comes to those who works hard and struggle in thier life. My Lord’s word says, “My grace is sufficient for thee”

    So you were a part of church for 10 yrs…. That means you have experienced just a breeze compared to the storm what I’ve seen and come across in tpm, rpm, ipc, cog, aog, oc and so on for more than 20 yrs, young lady… Among all these I’ve found tpm to be a wonderful ministry but certainly cannot be termed as the best. As you know every church has its own short-comings, even tpm has its own…

    But the spirit of accusations, blaming others should be avoided as this is purely devil’s work as I always say. I’m just trying to avoid others so that devil fails. For you infact if God doesnt exist, Devil too dont.


  167. No, No..I was part of the church since my birth – that is 20 years…But I was of an age to observe and probably question things only from the time I was 10 and upwards.


  168. Jim,
    So you were not a TPM member from the beginning? Are you a first-generation Christian or do you come from the CSI church?
    Which other churches did you attend? What attracted you to the Pentecostal way of life?
    Is your wife also a Pentecostal?


  169. If you were part of AG, do you stay in Chennai? Have you attended the AG church in Little Mount, Saidapet?
    I ask because I grew up in that church and I might have seen you before


  170. Jim,

    You said,

    But the spirit of accusations, blaming others should be avoided as this is purely devil’s work as I always say. I’m just trying to avoid others so that devil fails.

    When questions are raised about your beliefs it is better to answer them…my friend Cindy Kunsman from http://undermuchgrace.blogspot.com/ says, “in legalistic churches the group’s doctrine or ideology is considered to be the ultimate Truth, beyond all questioning or dispute. We should be Berean Christians, keeping the Bible as the ultimate authority not church leaders.”

    So don’t treat questions from others as the Devil’s work. What they say can have some validity. So we must examine at length criticism we receive, because it could be “constructive criticism” that would help us.

    Cindy Kunsman, who is a practicising Christian says, “People see truth as something they must prove and defend, as if they are personally responsible for truth. People like me see themselves as secondary to the truth, and truth does not need me to prove it’s validity. Truth helps me far more than I can ever help the truth. I need to be able to give an account of my faith, but truth can provide its own defense. That is Biblical. The Word does not return void.”


  171. Jim,

    Don’t immediately tell me I’m not an atheist and therein shouldn’t talk about matters pertaining to Christianity. Its just that I see a lot of me in you. Earlier, I too was like you…..I couldn’t bear one word of criticism about “Christianity”….but only after I started listening to what others – critics (who were also friends) – had to say did I start growing as a person.
    Earlier, I was a strictly black and white person. Either this was right or it was wrong. Now I see that there a lot of grey areas in life.
    For instance, I know of a pastor who lives a very simple lifestyle and helps many charitable institutions, yet he is guilty of tax evasion and still believes in the caste system.
    The earlier me would have rejected him outright – because of the tax evasion & casteism. But now as I have grown older, I realise people have shades of good and shades of bad….
    So, while the church has been responsible for many good things like starting many good educational institutions, it also has another shadier side to it (deals with politicians, funding, tax evasion, sectarian discrimination, gender bias, etc)


  172. Jim,

    So if we want to be true friends to a church leader/ church we will be happy about the good aspects, while strongly opposing the bad things in the church; for isn’t noble to fight for reformation in an institution you care for…?


  173. 1. YES, TPM IS WELL COORODINATED TO BRAG ABOUT WORKERS AND EXPLOIT THE YOUTH WITH FALSE DOCTRINES. AND CLAIMING THAT THE HOLY SPIRIT IS GUIDING THEM. DO NOT USE THE NAME OF GOD TO JUSTIFY YOUR FABRICATIONS.

    2. JIM COPIES AND PASTES FROM TPM. SO HE JUST SUSPECTS OTHERS OF THE SAME HABIT WHICH HE NORMALLY DOES.

    3. TPM DOES NOT ALLOW WORKERS TO REMAIN IN MARRIAGE. EITHER THEY HAVE TO SPLIT OR ENTER MINISTRY AS AN UNMARRIED. JIM CONFUSES BETWEEN PRECONDITION AND EXPECTATION WHEN BOTH ARE THE SAME.

    4. TPM IS NOT JUST LITTLE BUT ALSO A DIRTY PUDDLE WITH LOTS OF FALSE DOCTRINES WITH JINGOISTIC SUPPORTERS LIKE JIM. VERY ORGANISED DECEIVERS!!

    5. JIM LIKES TO DIVERT THE MODERATOR TO A DISCUSSION TO ATHEISM FROM EXPOSING TPM. THE MODERATOR MUST RECOGNISE THIS CUNNING STRATEGY OF JIM.

    6. PHILLIP CHANDAPILLAI WAS SEVERELY PHYSICALLY ASSAULTED DURING A GENERAL BODY MEETING IN KERALA BECAUSE HE CHANGED NAME FROM CEYLON PENTECOSTAL MISSION TO THE PENTECOSTAL MISSION. TPM IS VERY ORGANISED!! OF COURSE!! LOL.


  174. on January 20, 2009 at 10:27 am rachel varghese

    JEWELS VERSUS TRUST – A GLIMPSE

    Question: Is it possible for a person who wears jewels to trust in God?

    1. With regard to the above question on jewels there are two aspects:

    a. First is “trusting” in jewels.
    b. Second is “wearing” jewels.

    Can you tell what is the difference between “trusting” and “wearing”?

    Trusting in jewels means the following:

    1. Always boasting about jewels before others.
    2. Always thinking about jewels.
    3. Unwilling to come closer to Christ.

    On the other hand, trusting in God means the following:

    a. Boasting about the crucified Christ.
    b. Preaching the crucified Christ to unbelievers.
    c. Meditating about the crucified Christ.

    The above applies to money as well. We can have money and use it but if we do not glorify Christ in our life then we will be considered to be “trusting” in money.

    Note:

    Just because a person wears jewels does not mean that he/she is “trusting” in them. Why?

    Because, the Pentecostals themselves have millions of money in their bank account. They also buy the best dress, best house, work overseas etc. Do they “trust” in them?

    CONCLUSION: Therefore a person can wear jewels and still “trust” God. So teach people to trust in God rather than make them remove their jewels.

    Furthermore, be cautious when Pentecostal pastors threaten you by saying, “If you wear jewels you are trusting in jewels and not in God”.

    Moreover, be cautious of pastors when they say, “You are not having a sacrificing attitude because you wear jewels”.

    Just reply to those pastors saying, “I have considerable money in the bank account. Does it mean that I have to give up all of those to show that I am having a sacrificing attitude?”

    Just remember: Pastors want your jewels and money to promote their denominations. So give money for those who do gospel work and for those who train Christians to be gospel workers.


  175. And Jim,

    Since you believe in Christ, I am sure you must regard Susan, Rachel V and Daniel Raj as your brothers and sisters in Christ.

    That way, there is a saying “DON’T SHOOT THE MESSENGER.”

    And remember, Susan, Rachel V and Daniel Raj have all been members of TPM…..They have seen first-hand some of the practises in TPM, so when they raise questions do try to answer them.

    Ask them what incidents made them leave the TPM? Try and see if their greivances against the TPM church can be addressed…


  176. Jim,

    Do read the Ex-Pentecostal Forums. In this forum, Christians who have been abused by the church comment.

    http://expentecostalforums.yuku.com/forums/1/t/Azusa-Street-Survivors.html

    Another good resource maybe The South Indian Pentecostal Movement in the Twentieth Century
    By Michael

    http://books.google.com/books?id=XGiv3riaunQC&dq=%22A+somewhat+different+development+took+place+in+the+Ceylon+Pentecostal%22&source=gbs_summary_s&cad=0

    In the South Indian Pentecostal Movement, Michael tells us the origins and history of the charismatic churches in south India.
    And this link was forwarded to me by a TPM member


  177. Jim,

    I think you had no problem with Anil being a Methodist.
    If you want I can mail you a book, called Ex-Pentecostal Thoughts by Joe Istre, an Ex-Pentecostal Pastor, who is now an engineer and attends the Lutheran Church.
    Joe explains in a more rational way what went wrong with the Pentecostal Movement.
    All the resources I have given you are those written by Christians.

    You might also want to check out Cindy Kunsman’s blog on spiritual abuse http://undermuchgrace.blogspot.com/
    She has dealt with at length how some charismatic movements have been guilty of spiritual abuse.

    Cindy Kunsman is a Christian and also the gift of tongues (in your language) or glossalia (in my language).

    If you are more comfortable debating theology with a Christian than an atheist like me, I could also provide you with her email ID.


  178. Jim,

    The reason why many people get so agitated over the TPM, is because so many believers die due to this ideology from lack of medical attention.
    I personally know TPM members (in Chennai Irumbuilyur church) whose close relatives died because they didn’t receive medical treatment.

    Why did they not go for medicines? Because they strongly believed God would heal them. That means, their faith in God was strong, they were willing to die for it.

    Yet do you know what the TPM pastors said? They said these believers had died because they did not have “enough faith” that God would heal them.”

    Imagine how devasted the family must have felt…Not only do they lose their son or daughter, they also have to be told they died because they were not “faithful enough.”

    Jim, forget the no-jewels business. This concept of not taking medicine is very serious, because it is causing so many believers’ deaths.

    That is why Jim, people get so worked up about the TPM.


  179. JIm,

    If you believe your Christ is loving, merciful and kind, you will not support such a cruel belief that has caused the death of so many people.

    Do you know that the neighbours wanted to file a police case against the parents for not taking their child to the doctor?
    Everyone was horrified.
    I know you love your church. But if you really loved it try rectifying some of its “crueller aspects.”


  180. on January 20, 2009 at 10:58 am rachel varghese

    Dear Brethren,

    The following is a letter sent to a TPM friend. Read and be blessed.

    Hi

    You said, “however, the death of His saints is glorious in His eyes.”

    The truth: God promised in Psalms 91: 16, “16 With long life will I satisfy him and show him my salvation.”

    It is not glorious in the sight of God for TPM pastors and sisters to die at 30 yrs and 40 yrs. Most of the TPM workers die from sicknesses.

    They claim the verse, “I am the Lord that healeth thee” and consider it sin to take medicines. But what happens? They are not healed as per the verse. Instead they die. Then they give an excuse saying that they are going to Zion in heaven. Thus they deceive themselves and others by falsely interpreting that verse.

    Is there any verse in the Bible which says that taking medicines or going for surgery is sin? A doctor is created by God. The position of a doctor is also created by God. Jesus said that a sick man needs a physician or a doctor.

    Jesus performs miracles and heals people not to close hospitals and pharmaceuticals but to show His love and save people. But at other times He has appointed doctors, teachers, lawyers, judges etc.

    God appoints principalities and powers in this worldly kingdom. He also rules them.

    Doctors treat people. They never heal people. Just like teachers teach but victory comes from God. TPM workers do not understand that.

    TPM thinks wrongly that doctors heal. Doctors just operate and prescribe medicines.

    TU Thomas never admitted the false doctrines of TPM though he preached in volumes. God is not happy about that.

    Hope you understand.


  181. JIM LIKES TO DIVERT THE MODERATOR TO A DISCUSSION TO ATHEISM FROM EXPOSING TPM. THE MODERATOR MUST RECOGNISE THIS CUNNING STRATEGY OF JIM.

    Perhaps David is unaware of the fact that the moderator is an athiest and the greater reward lies heaven for briniging in a soul than to play blame game on them who already know Christ and when God’s LIVES to judge them.


  182. PERHAPS JIM IS UNAWARE OF THE DOCTRINAL DECEPTIONS IN TPM WHICH MAKES BELIEVERS LUKEWARM TO THE WORK OF EVANGELISM WORLDWIDE.

    TPM DOCTRINAL DECEPTIONS MAKES TPM BELIEVERS HAVE NO BURDEN FOR CHRIST. ALL THEY KNOW IS TO BRAG ABOUT WORKERS, BE DEPENDENT ON WORKERS JUST LIKE CATHOLICS WHO BOAST ABOUT THEIR PRIESTS.

    BECAUSE OF TPM’S DECEPTIONS THE CAUSE OF EVANGELISM SUFFERS WORLDWIDE. THAT INVLOVES MILLIONS OF SOULS.

    HOPE JIM UNDERSTANDS THAT RATHER THAN JUST HELP TPM BUILD THEIR “IMAGE” AND THEIR DENOMINATION AND THEIR COFFERS.

    TPM DECEIVES ITSELF IN CALLING THEIR CHURCHES AS “FAITHHOME” WHEN THE ORIGINAL COMMITTMENT NOT TO OWN LANDS AND BUILDINGS HAS BEEN GROSSLY FORSAKEN.

    THIS IS WORSER THAN WHAT JIM COULD ASSUME.

    IN ADDITION, MANY DIE DUE TO THE FALSE DOCTRINE OF A DISTORTED DEFINITION OF “DIVINE HEALING” WITHOUT HAVING TO SERVE GOD OR TO FULFILL THEIR CALLING IN THIS WORLD. ISN’T THIS WORSE? YES, OFCOURSE.


  183. If you are more comfortable debating theology with a Christian than an atheist like me, I could also provide you with her email ID.

    This is like somebody is paying for debate games. Well sorry I’m not paid. I want to know if you are also not paid, then how you all are benefitted by these discusions??

    So if we want to be true friends to a church leader/ church we will be happy about the good aspects, while strongly opposing the bad things in the church; for isn’t noble to fight for reformation in an institution you care for…?

    Firstly, I dont care for any institutes cos time of His coming is almost at hand…. And moreover, does that mean that if we all debate and debate and go on debating on this topics, we’ll be able to bring the so called REFORMATION in the church?? This is not a process of reformation but a process of bringing-in the spirit of doubt and dividing the people among themselves. Rachel V, Susan, David, all of them, they arent gentiles but those who believe in Chirst, and we are all a part of body of Christ.

    If I have a bad experience in any church, it doesnt mean I should bark around accusing and blaming them. I HAVE SO MANY WORST EXP WITH OTHER CHURCHES…. DO I BARK AROUND?? Its just that you are showing off that you are unable to face such a situation in life. Situation of denial, deception… and ask me what more… You keep calm, pray and leave everything to God. IF not then it indicates you are not fully trusting in Him.

    The WORD of my Lord says, “Be still and know that I’m God”… “If Christ be for me, who can be against me?? ” So why worry??

    The best example is you.. This kind of critisism and blame-game has taken away you from God, and God knows how many more…

    I know you love your church
    I dont love mine or any church, but Christ.

    God appoints principalities and powers in this worldly kingdom. He also rules them.

    This is very much true. Read the verses very carefully. Doctors are NOT a part of “principalities and powers” of the society.. Read it carefully “Doctor” word is never mentioned. It gives more emphasis on law of the land and paying tax to the goverment.

    That is why Jim, people get so worked up about the TPM.

    I told you earlier.. people getting worked up is fine. I understand that. But expressing it.. is NOT going to bring any change. EVERY CHURCH HAS GOT PROBLEMS WITHIN… let me repeat….. EVERY CHURCH…

    IF THEY ARE WORKED UP THEN WHY DONT PEOPLE WHO ACCUSE, COME FORWARD AND CREATE A CHURCH of thier own…. WITHOUT BLEMISH, WITH EXACT DOCTRINAL LAYOUTS AND AS PER WHAT THEY THINK IS PERFECT…???

    Anyways.. Since this debating-game isnt helping me or helping any church institutes in bringing so called “reformations”, I QUIT.

    BUT THEN, IF ITS HELPING SOME OTHERS TO BURN-UP THIER ANGER, ANGUISH, FRUSTRATION, STERSS ETC OR WHATEVER…… LET THEM CONTINUE DOING SO…

    Remember.. I’ve LIVED these discussions and debates… but gained NOTHING out of it…. And I bet.. NOBODYS GONNA BENEFIT ANYTHING OUT OF IT…

    Before I quit… a warning to all of you::::::::

    “The coming of out Lord is very very near. Its not any church or tpm or any religious institutes which are going to give you redemption and make you prepare to be caught up in His coming but your virtue. Time is nigh and its time to check your heart” ARE YOU READY???

    Rachel C, : Ps 14:1 is esp. for you !!!!

    Goodbye.


  184. TPM BUYS LANDS AND BUILDINGS IN VIOLATION OF 2 PRINCIPLES:

    – FIRSTLY, THEY VIOLATE THE ORIGINAL COMMITTMENT MADE BY THE TPM FOUNDER WHO VOWED TO ONLY LIVE AND WORSHIP IN RENTAL HOUSES. THAT IS WHY THEY CALLED THEIR RENTAL HOUSES AS “FAITHHOMES”.

    NOW TPM USES THE NAME AND HAS SWALLOWED THE WHOLE COMMITTMENT.

    – SECONDLY, THEY VIOLATE THE PRINCIPLES OF THE EARLY CHURCH APOSTLES WHERE BELIEVERS BROKE BREAD IN HOMES AS PER ACTS 2:46. THE EARLY CHURCH APOSTLES CELEBRATED THEIR MEAL AS COMMUNION. THEY DID NOT DIFFERENTIATE BETWEEN THEIR MEAL AND THE COMMUNION TABLE.

    HOWEVER, TPM WORKERS VISIT BELIEVER’S HOUSES ON THE FIRST WEEK OF EVERY MONTH IN THE NAME OF “HOUSE VISITING” JUST TO COLLECT THE “TITHES”.

    THEY USE THESE TITHES TO BUILD LANDS AND BUILDINGS AND CALL THEM “FAITHOMES”. WHEREAS THE BIBLE SAYS IN ACTS 17:24, “The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by hands.”

    THE APOSTLES USED HOUSES TO PREACH, BREAK BREAD AND PERFORM MIRACLES. BECAUSE JESUS PROMISED, “WHEREVER 2 OR 3 ARE GATHERED IN MY NAME, I WILL BE IN THE MIDST.”

    THE MILLIONS OF MONEY WHICH TPM MOBILISES WAS GIVEN TO GOD TO BUILD UP THE TRUE CHURCH WHICH REFERS TO THE HEART OF THE BELIEVER AS PER 1 COR 3:16.

    INSTEAD OF BUILDING THAT TRUE TEMPLE IN EVERY BELIEVER, THOUSANDS OF TPM BELIEVERS’ HOUSES ARE LOCKED TIGHT EVERY SUNDAY MORNING AND THEY ALL GATHER IN A BUILDING MADE BY HANDS AND FOR WHICH MILLIONS HAVE BEEN WASTED.

    HENCE, BEFORE GIVING MONEY THINK TWICE. GIVE TO MINISTRIES WHO EQUIP YOU TO PREACH AND TEACH THE WORD.

    GIVE TO MINISTRIES WHO TEACH YOU TO BRAG ABOUT CHRIST AND HAVE A BURDEN FOR LOST SOULS AND WHO TRAINS YOU TO DO A MINISTRY WHEREVER YOU ARE.

    GIVE TO MINISTRIES WHO HELP YOU TO FULFILL YOUR CALLING OF A PRIEST.

    LET NOT YOUR MONEY GO TO BUILD TEMPLES WHERE GOD DOES NOT DWELL. LET NOT YOUR MONEY GO TO TPM WHO BUILD A FABRICATED FALSE IMAGE FOR THEMSELVES USING A FALSE DOCTRINE OF “MELCHIZEDEK SUCCESSORSHIP”.

    REMEMBER, YOU ARE A PRIEST WHO CAN ENTER THE MOST HOLY PLACE WHERE EVEN AARON THE HIGH PRIEST COULD NOT ENTER WITH CONFIDENCE. JESUS DIED TO TAKE YOU TO HIS FATHER AND NOT TO SING PRAISES OF TPM.

    YOU DO NOT NEED TPM WORKERS AS MIDDLE AGENTS OR BROKERS WHO HAVE FORSAKEN THE FOUNDERS COMMITMENT TO LIVE ONLY IN RENTAL HOUSES.

    (Jim again diverts the Moderator from the topic of this blog site. This is satan’s strategy. The topic is TPM not atheism.)


  185. TPM BUYS LANDS AND BUILDINGS IN VIOLATION OF 2 PRINCIPLES:

    – FIRSTLY, THEY VIOLATE THE ORIGINAL COMMITTMENT MADE BY THE TPM FOUNDER WHO VOWED TO ONLY LIVE AND WORSHIP IN RENTAL HOUSES. THAT IS WHY THEY CALLED THEIR RENTAL HOUSES AS “FAITHHOMES”.

    NOW TPM USES THE NAME AND HAS SWALLOWED THE WHOLE COMMITTMENT.

    – SECONDLY, THEY VIOLATE THE PRINCIPLES OF THE EARLY CHURCH APOSTLES WHERE BELIEVERS BROKE BREAD IN HOMES AS PER ACTS 2:46. THE EARLY CHURCH APOSTLES CELEBRATED THEIR MEAL AS COMMUNION. THEY DID NOT DIFFERENTIATE BETWEEN THEIR MEAL AND THE COMMUNION TABLE.

    HOWEVER, TPM WORKERS VISIT BELIEVER’S HOUSES ON THE FIRST WEEK OF EVERY MONTH IN THE NAME OF “HOUSE VISITING” JUST TO COLLECT THE “TITHES”.

    THEY USE THESE TITHES TO BUILD LANDS AND BUILDINGS AND CALL THEM “FAITHOMES”. WHEREAS THE BIBLE SAYS IN ACTS 17:24, “The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by hands.”

    THE APOSTLES USED HOUSES TO PREACH, BREAK BREAD AND PERFORM MIRACLES. BECAUSE JESUS PROMISED, “WHEREVER 2 OR 3 ARE GATHERED IN MY NAME, I WILL BE IN THE MIDST.”

    THE MILLIONS OF MONEY WHICH TPM MOBILISES WAS GIVEN TO GOD TO BUILD UP THE TRUE CHURCH WHICH REFERS TO THE HEART OF THE BELIEVER AS PER 1 COR 3:16.

    INSTEAD OF BUILDING THAT TRUE TEMPLE IN EVERY BELIEVER, THOUSANDS OF TPM BELIEVERS’ HOUSES ARE LOCKED TIGHT EVERY SUNDAY MORNING AND THEY ALL GATHER IN A BUILDING MADE BY HANDS AND FOR WHICH MILLIONS HAVE BEEN WASTED.

    HENCE, BEFORE GIVING MONEY THINK TWICE. GIVE TO MINISTRIES WHO EQUIP YOU TO PREACH AND TEACH THE WORD.

    GIVE TO MINISTRIES WHO TEACH YOU TO BRAG ABOUT CHRIST AND HAVE A BURDEN FOR LOST SOULS AND WHO TRAINS YOU TO DO A MINISTRY WHEREVER YOU ARE.

    GIVE TO MINISTRIES WHO HELP YOU TO FULFILL YOUR CALLING OF A PRIEST.

    LET NOT YOUR MONEY GO TO BUILD TEMPLES WHERE GOD DOES NOT DWELL. LET NOT YOUR MONEY GO TO TPM WHO BUILD A FABRICATED FALSE IMAGE FOR THEMSELVES USING A FALSE DOCTRINE OF “MELCHIZEDEK SUCCESSORSHIP”.

    REMEMBER, YOU ARE A PRIEST WHO CAN ENTER THE MOST HOLY PLACE WHERE EVEN AARON THE HIGH PRIEST COULD NOT ENTER WITH CONFIDENCE. JESUS DIED TO TAKE YOU TO HIS FATHER AND NOT TO SING PRAISES OF TPM.

    YOU DO NOT NEED TPM WORKERS AS MIDDLE AGENTS OR BROKERS WHO HAVE FORSAKEN THE FOUNDERS COMMITMENT TO LIVE ONLY IN RENTAL HOUSES.

    (Jim again tries to divert the Moderator from the topic of this blog site. This is satan’s strategy. The topic is TPM not atheism.)


  186. Hi Jim,

    You know your comments are quite insulting, I sometimes find it hard to believe you are a practicing Christian. You said things like “Little Susan..” “stupid” “fool” “Devil’s work” “a desperate emotional fool” “your love for sin” (you have no knowledge about my life-style), “this is like somebody is paying for debate games. Well sorry I’m not paid. I want to know if you are also not paid” “I should bark around accusing and blaming them” (we are quite human, we can assure you ;-)”

    But its not just Jim, as far as I know everyone here has been accusing other people of “Devil’s work”….Hmmmm

    “Firstly, I dont care for any institutes. I dont love mine or any church, but Christ.”

    Then why are you defending the church, if you don’t love it?
    And being in love with an institution is not a bad thing either as long as we can be rational about it.


  187. on January 22, 2009 at 5:13 am rachel varghese

    WHAT DAVID STATED WAS TRUE.

    WE NEED TO GIVE TO MINISTRIES WHO ENCOURAGE HOUSE CHURCHES SO THAT MILLIONS NEED NOT BE WASTED ON LARGE BUILDINGS.

    IT WAS A GOOD THOUGHT! “HOUSES OF BELIEVERS ARE LOCKED EVERY SUNDAY MORNING AND THEY ALL GATHER AT ONE LARGE BUILDING”.

    THAT RAISES THE QUESTION, “WHY CANNOT THE HOUSES OF INDIVIDUAL BELIEVERS BE OPENED FOR WORSHIP AND MINISTRY ON SUNDAY MORNINGS?”

    TPM HAS TO GIVE UP THEIR “TPM IDENTITY” AND SEEK THE IDENTITY OF THE KINGDOM OF GOD. THEN THEY SHOULD TRAIN EVERY BELIEVER TO PREACH AND TEACH THE WORD OF GOD.

    LET THE TITHE MONEY OF BELIEVERS GO FOR GOSPEL WORK WHERE SOULS COULD BE WON FOR THE KINGDOM OF GOD. LET NOT THE MONEY BE WASTED ON BUYING LANDS AND BUILDING LARGE BUILDINGS.

    LET RENTAL HOUSES BE CALLED AS “FAITHOMES”. LET NOT TPM SUPPRESS THE INITIAL COMMITTMENT OF THE FOUNDER AND THEREBY DECEIVE PEOPLE. TPM BELIEVERS! WAKE UP FOR TRUTH!!

    MAY GOD OPEN THE EYES OF EVERYONE WHO VISIT THIS BLOG SITE!! MAY GOD BLESS THE MODERATOR.


  188. MAY GOD OPEN THE EYES OF EVERYONE WHO VISIT THIS BLOG SITE!! MAY GOD BLESS THE MODERATOR.

    HAHA… God can never bless the moderator untill she believes in one… Jim rightly said that Ps 14:1 is for Rachel Chitra… What an ultimate definition of a fool !!! I really liked the way Word of God defines the term “Fool” I know this statement would bring a grin on the moderator’s face… but then thats wht the Word of God says.

    WE NEED TO GIVE TO MINISTRIES WHO ENCOURAGE HOUSE CHURCHES SO THAT MILLIONS NEED NOT BE WASTED ON LARGE BUILDINGS.

    IT WAS A GOOD THOUGHT! “HOUSES OF BELIEVERS ARE LOCKED EVERY SUNDAY MORNING AND THEY ALL GATHER AT ONE LARGE BUILDING”.

    LET THE TITHE MONEY OF BELIEVERS GO FOR GOSPEL WORK WHERE SOULS COULD BE WON FOR THE KINGDOM OF GOD. LET NOT THE MONEY BE WASTED ON BUYING LANDS AND BUILDING LARGE BUILDINGS.

    Notice the most common word used here:

    I’m not a supporter but “Large buildings”: usage of this word again and again only goes on to prove how jealous she is about how God has been blessing this ministry”

    I happened to go to Mulund faith home… its big… I couldnt blieve it was built without any foriegn aid. Its too gud.. the Sunday worship was great… The speech-topic was “forgiveness”… truly a great blessing.. but since the faith home is very far from my place.. its sad I wont be going every Sunday.

    This is for Susan, Rachel, David and all the same kind:
    Pls go thru 2 Timothy 3:13,14 and Romans 16: 17,18

    “Now I (God) beseech you, brethren, mark THEM (susan, rachel, david and all belonging to same catagory) which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned (every christian has learnt in some or the ther way and there can be differences in them, as I’ve learnt it differently, Jim has learnt it differently and all others); and AVOID THEM.

    For they (susan, rachel, david and all belonging to same catagory) that are such serve NOT our Lord Jesus Christ, but THEIR (susan, rachel, david and all belonging to same catagory) OWN belly (As Jim said rightly “BUT THEN, IF ITS HELPING SOME OTHERS TO BURN-UP THIER ANGER, ANGUISH, FRUSTRATION, STERSS ETC OR WHATEVER…… LET THEM CONTINUE DOING SO…”); and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple (Eg: Rachel Chitra and many such others).”

    I sometimes wonder how the “Word of God” is so precise in defining people.

    And this is right… Even I’m not benefittig nything here… debating isnt life… but practising what you learnt would be something that would make some sense.


  189. Anil,

    Daniel Florein says in reply to Psalm 14:1:

    “I thank you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that you have hidden these things from the wise and understanding and revealed them to little children; yes, Father, for such was your gracious will.”
    (Jesus, Luke 10:21)

    I find it telling that God hides himself and true understanding from “the wise and understanding” (the smart, the educated, the strong), but reveals himself to “little children” (the ignorant, the weak, the needy).

    The Bible itself admits that Christianity doesn’t stand up to those who are searching for truth, who are educated, who are open-minded. God has hidden the teachings of Jesus from the wise and instead reveals them to the ignorant and misguided.

    Of course this is what you’d expect the Bible to teach. The early Christians generally weren’t educated rich folks. They were poor and uneducated. It didn’t appeal to the wise. It appealed to uneducated fisherman and people like the Apostle Paul who saw visions. It’s comforting for Christians to know that the wise object because God is blinding their eyes, not because there are any real objections to Christianity.

    This teaching often fills Christians with pride. It comes out especially among fundamentalists, who look down on those who are educated. They believe Christians are the really smart ones. They’re the ones who understand the universe and God, not those stupid scientists. And they’re the ones who know all about the life and teachings of Jesus, not those stupid secular bible scholars and historians.

    I’m throwing my lot in with the “wise” scientists and scholars, not the “little children” who can be convinced to believe anything.


  190. Anil & Jim’s “scientific responses” to my questioning the Bible was “I believe this because the Bible says so.”

    If you mean: “I believe this because the Bible says so.”

    Translation:
    “I have no clue about the history of that big book I’m in love with, and I don’t care either, because it’s God’s Word, and if God said it, it must be true.”
    Acceptable Response: “Amen.”
    Unacceptable Response: “It also says to kill homosexuals.” They might heartily agree to that one, which in case the unacceptable response becomes, “It also says to kill your children when they talk back. Have your children ever talked back?” Or, “Explain to me the authorship and transmission of the Bible, and why you think it’s God’s Word.” Or especially, “Jesus said to give anything to those who ask of you – and not only to give what they ask, but more. So please give me your wallet and your car.”


  191. Anil,

    Calling ‘atheism’ a religion is like calling ‘bald’ a hair color.” (Don Hirschberg) Or, “If atheism is a religion, then not collecting stamps is a hobby.


  192. Jim,

    You say: “Sorry I can’t take the time or effort to answer your questions on TPM, because the Lord is coming soon…”

    “We’re in the end times.”

    Translation: “My pastor said we’re living in the end times.”
    Unacceptable Response: “Did you know that out of the millions of times Christians have claimed this throughout history, they’ve always been wrong?” Or, “If you’re so confident, I’m sure you’ll be confident in putting some significant money towards a bet on that.”


  193. Anil & Jim,

    Sometimes I feel so frustrated…talking to you is like talking to a wall.
    You ask questions.
    I give answers.
    You ignore the answers & ignore my questions.
    You next engage in nasty name-calling, “idiot” “fool”, etc. Is this Christ-like?
    You next insult every one else commenting here.
    They ask questions.
    You ignore their questions also.
    Why do you ask questions, if you don’t want to listen to the answers?
    Or can’t you handle the truth?
    You know the Bible was written by men and says bizarre things like “Stone slaves to death for theft..” “Homosexuals must be killed.”
    “Atheists are fools…” “People can talk to the dead..” etc
    You know that many Christians have died because they didn’t take medicines.
    Your response: I don’t care to answer your questions, the end time is near.
    You call Susan, Rachel V and Daniel religious fanatics.
    You used words like “love for sin” “fool” “are you getting paid for this?”
    When I said I felt “insulted and hurt”
    You ingore that also.
    And continue to insult me and everyone else here.
    If you can’t answer questions, don’t bring up such issues
    If you can’t apologise, don’t add insult to injury …by continuing to insult the person
    If you can’t be Christian, atleast be gracious & secular


  194. Jesus said

    For there are eunuchs who were born that way from their mother’s womb; and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men; and there are also eunuchs who made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. He who is able to accept this, let him accept it.”


  195. Ace,

    Can you be a little more clear….where you quoting the verse with regard to the TPM workers practise of remaning celibate?


  196. This verse is for any one who believe it.


  197. Hi Everyone.

    Greetings in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.

    Very happy that God has given the right verses in right time through Anil (2 Timothy 3:13,14 and Romans 16: 17,18) and Ace (Mat 19:12).

    Mat 19:12 would silence many of the critics by rachels, susans, davids and likes.

    I have seen many brethren testifying that they never knew before, a church called tpm. They prayed to God to reveal them the church with which they should be associated with. Praise God, God has revealed to them that tpm is the church they should have fellowship with.

    And to Jims, Anils and likes Please read this verse before commenting anymore here.

    Mt 7:6 – Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

    This is the verse that Jesus has put in my mind, so that i souldn’t comment here with these people. Hope you understand the intensity of the above verse. When you keep on debating here, then the last part of the verse may come true beloved brethren. ” they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you”. Our spiritual life may be rived or rend here.

    Hope you understand the spiritual meaning of the words ‘HOLY’ and ‘PEARL’ in Mt 7:6. It refers the Word of God or the precious gospel/revelation of kingdom of God, that God has given us.

    This is the reason I didn’t reply here for many of their Q.

    Thanks for defending the truth Jim, Anil, Ace and many more .


  198. Robinson,

    I thought Jim and Anil were being insulting, but you take the cake with labelling me (an atheist) and the others (your brothers and sisters in Christ) “dogs” & “pigs”

    How about me quoting the Bible to you and telling your actions were like those of the “pharisees”?……………………..but that wouldn’t work right? Coz I’m the Devil quoting the Scriptures


  199. Robinson,

    There’s something called blog etiquette. When you visit a person’s house and sit on their sofa, you won’t call them a dog or a pig, Right?
    You are visiting my blog, using my space (I have disabled comment moderation because I believe in freedom of expression) and calling me and my friends “dogs + pigs.”
    If you disagree with a view, abuse the view. Never abuse the person.
    Is this how Christ taught you to love your enemies (who by the way are Christians)?


  200. Jim, Anil & Robinson,

    You have called me & others here “fool” “idiot” “desperate” “love for sin” “dogs” and “pigs”.
    Yet not once have I replied in kind.
    Have I ever engaged in name calling?
    You have changed every debate into “personal attacks.”
    So who is more Christian – me or you?


  201. ROBINSON HAS NOT ANSWERED MANY QUESTIONS. HE UTTERED RUBBISH WHICH HE THINKS IS “PEARL”.

    HE CANNOT ANSWER QUESTIONS. THIS IS ANOTHER TPM STRATEGY TO ACCUSE AND EVADE.

    1. ROBINSON SAID, “Zion and New Jerusalem are meant for the Bride of Christ.”

    DOES HE MEAN THAT HIS WIFE WHO WEARS JEWELS CANNOT ENTER THESE PLACES WHICH YOU MENTIONED?

    BECAUSE HIS WIFE WEARS JEWELS DOES IT MEAN THAT SHE SHOULD NOT LEAD A LIFE OF EDIFICATION TO OTHERS AND TO CHILDREN?

    WHERE DOES THE BIBLE SAY THAT BELIEVERS OTHER THAN WORKERS AND SUNDAY SCHOOL TEACHERS ONLY CAN WEAR JEWELS? COULD HE ANSWER.

    2. ROBINSON SAID, “Taking Medicine is not a sin, to have a greater glory there are verses which gives faith and courage to get healing from God rather from men.”

    WHERE DOES THE BIBLE SAY THAT THERE IS GREATER GLORY IF MEDICINES ARE REFUSED? POINT ME TO THE VERSE.

    3. ROBINSON AND ANIL (JIM) THINKS THAT THEY HAVE PEARLS WHEN IN TRUTH THEY HAVE NONSENSE WHICH DOES NOT SQARE UP TO THE SCRIPTURES.

    RATHER THAN PROVE FROM THE SCRIPTURES THEY LIKE TO HOLD ON TO LIES LIKE THE PHARISEES!!

    THEIR TRUST IS NOT IN TRUTH BUT IN THE FABRICATED DOCTRINES OF TPM. AND THEY CALL IT PEARL!! VERY FUNNY!!!


  202. wait wait wait Ms. Moderator

    I didn’t engage here in name calling, did I? Please read my comments with patience. I have just quoted what the Holy Scripture says. Thats it.

    If ever my comments hurt you kindly pardon me.

    If that is the name Bible gives for those who doesn’t accept the truth (for Ex. Psm 14 :1 – fool. Mt 7:6 – Dogs and Pigs) I cant make any change in it dear sister. It has been foretold thousands of years before. Who am I to change the course of Lord’s way? At the same time why should I fear to mention that which is Quoted in the Bible.

    I never engage in name calling sis. I just quoted what is what.


  203. Robinson,

    Can I also quote the scriptures. Jesus calls religious people “O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.”

    Can I now take the verse and say Jesus was talking about you when he said that?

    I can’t!

    So, you also cannot take a verse out of context and use that to villify someone


  204. If the Bible says so,

    “Why not bless those who curse you (none of us here cursed you, remember)” and “love your enemies”
    Why are you not quoting these verses?
    Was it really Christian of you, to have called fellow-Christians “dogs & pigs” because they questioned “extra-Biblical teaching” which has led to the death of so many believing Christians.


  205. Robinson,

    This approach might work better. “I know you hold different opinions. However, these are mine….Even if we never agree, I hope we can still remain friends.”
    Atleast, this way we can ensure debates lead only to discovering new views and never get personal :-)


  206. Sis did I take that out of context? No never did I.

    “O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.”

    You please read the whole of that chapter. You will find Jesus saying the above words to those who are speaking ill of the Holy Spirit and the Son of Man. If I had spake anything in that manner you own every right to quote that verse.

    “Why not bless those who curse you (none of us here cursed you, remember)” and “love your enemies”

    Sis I didn’t curse anyone here. And it says Love you enemies and not love those who condemn God’s word or His revelations. These tpm critics are not my enemies to love them sis. If they do some harm to me I would love them. But these people here are mocking at Gods revelation. I think I don’t need any part with them nor does the Bible say so. Actually the Bible warns us to leave from such people. God forbid that I have any part with them. From all their comments I could clearly understand that they are ex-tpm members. They had left for their own reasons.

    When you quote the bible verse sis, ensure that you quote the right verse for the right context.

    I can keep on justifying all the comments they post here. From the way they are commenting its quite clear they wanna dig our doctrines.

    It is actually they who condemns us and not we(jim, anil and myself). I don’t tell my own words. I just past the scriptures here. Thats it sis.


  207. Robinson,

    One of our Christian bloggers said this:

    Matthew 7:6

    “Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces.”

    To me, standing by itself that verse looks like a warning not waste our time trying to share the things of God with people who just won’t listen. It appears that Jesus is saying that there are some people who aren’t going to get it, they are Pigs, they are Dogs, and as a matter of fact it is dangerous to try and share the Gospel with them so don’t even bother, Right? We’ve all heard the saying. whenever someone disagrees or won’t listen we go to this verse and say we shouldn’t have thrown or Pearls before swine. But there is a problem with that… The problem is that it goes against everything else Jesus teaches even what he said in Matthew 7:1

    “Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.”

    How can we decide who we should not share with, without deciding who is a Pig, or who is a Dog. So is Jesus contradicting himself? Is he telling us in one place “Don’t Judge others” and then just a few minutes later. “OK sometimes you have to Judge others?”

    Throughout his ministry Jesus reached to people that society would have thought of as Pigs and Dogs. Prostitutes, Tax collectors, Adulteresses, he talked and befriended them all. Do we really believe Jesus was telling his disciples not to? What if we look at the context of these two statements. They occur near the end of the Sermon on the Mount. Jesus had just spent a lot of time explaining to the crowds what was expected of them as disciples and as his followers. Now what if this section was about Jesus understanding the condition of the Human heart. What if it was about Jesus understanding the temptation of our hearts to want to use this information against those around us. At the end of all this teaching Jesus says, Now don’t use what I have just given you to judge others, because he knows that we will have a tendency to compare ourselves to everyone around us to look down on others judging them if they aren’t “as good” as we are. (Ever done that? I’ll admit I have)

    Judging others by the Law only proves one thing. It proves we know the Law. So if we then make a mistake we will be judged harsher than someone who may not have known the Law. So we are warned not to Judge. Jesus talks about looking at ourselves first, getting the plank out of our own eye before we take the speck out of someone else’s. So where does verse 6 fit in?

    What if Jesus was being sarcastic? What if he was trying to teach by overstating? What if he was showing people what to avoid. What if he was really following up the judging point by saying. If you decide that other people are Pigs, and you throw these teachings out to them as judgements against them, then don’t be surprised when that same attitude rubs off on them and they turn on you. Judging you by the same Law and your mistakes in it.

    For years and years there have been some who’s biggest sounding call in the name of Christ is to tell others in the world how bad they are. They picket and talk on TV poking fun and cutting down a world that is filled with fallen and confused people. People who make mistakes and don’t know God. People who when scorned will wait for a Christian to fail, to fall, to make a mistake and then the turn and tear him to pieces. And here is the really sad part of that. When they turn and tear that person to pieces it is not just the person who is dishonored, it is Jesus Christ who takes the brunt of the attack, because we represent Christ to the world.

    When we spend so much time Judging others, instead of Loving them through their falleness, the way Jesus loved me through my faults. We turn that Judgment back on ourselves and through us The world Judges our Lord.


  208. Robinson,

    These tpm critics are not my enemies to love them sis.

    If we are not your enemies, talk to us.
    We are not all that bad. I can assure we don’t have two horns on our heads and a forked tail ;-)

    I think I don’t need any part with them nor does the Bible say so. Actually the Bible warns us to leave from such people. God forbid that I have any part with them. From all their comments I could clearly understand that they are ex-tpm members. They had left for their own reasons.

    From what I know of Christ – he extended grace to everyone – not just to Jews but also to prostitutes, tax collectors, fishermen Samaritans, Romans, etc. Remember Thomas who doubted? Jesus had to convince him.
    Try convincing us, we are not anti-Christ, remember.
    And also what would be life, If you spoke only to TPM members, Susan spoke only to ex-TPM members and I spoke only to atheists – Life would be dull, boring & we would never get a new perspective.

    I can keep on justifying all the comments they post here. From the way they are commenting its quite clear they wanna dig our doctrines.

    Truth will stand. Truth does not need you, me or Susan to defend it. It can stand by itself.

    It is actually they who condemns us and not we(jim, anil and myself). I don’t tell my own words. I just past the scriptures here. Thats it sis.

    Do they condemn you? I am not sure….I should read all the comments more carefully. Scriptures can be misintrepreted.
    Many Christian husbands I know use the verse “Wives should obey and submit to their husbands” to justify why they beat their wives.
    So the usage or mis-use (intentional or un-intentional) of Scriptures can happen. It is human to commit mistakes.
    I am sure you will agree with me that none of us have our theology 100% right……we all have doubts, shortcomings and failings.


  209. Sis RC – Your are giving your hundred percent to protect your friends. (since all of you sail in the same boat of criticizing tpm). Right?

    I accept what you pasted above. Its no work of mine to judge others, lest I be judged.

    I prefer you read that comments a bit patiently. I quoted that verses to my fellow brethren. When I knew the wiles of the devil, Its my duty to protect them at all cost. I just informed them to refrain themselves from answering the Tpm critics.( I think i am doing the same now). These susans and rachels (including you) are playing it for months.

    A debate on politics, sports and corporate world etc is commendable. But not with God and His ways. Right?


  210. Robinson,

    Why should only ex-TPM members be my friends? I would love to make friends with you. I hope that my views never prejudice my interactions with people.

    Then I knew the wiles of the devil, Its my duty to protect them at all cost. I just informed them to refrain themselves from answering the Tpm critics.( I think i am doing the same now). These susans and rachels (including you) are playing it for months.

    A debate on politics, sports and corporate world etc is commendable. But not with God and His ways. Right?

    Robinson…………..its something like this……………..I don’t know if I can state it clearly.

    Cults are defined as groups in which the doctrine or ideology is considered to be the ultimate Truth, beyond all questioning or dispute.
    So, if the TPM is not a cult, then all its practises should be able to stand up to questioning.

    And even if the TPM is 100 % right and other denominations are not. “Now abide by these – faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.”

    Abide by your faith – the TPM faith. But also remember that love – extending love to all – sinner, Christian, non-Christian, TPM member, Ex-TPM member – is what St Paul tells us to do.
    So don’t refuse outright to talk with them. They might have been hurt by someone or something in the church – to make them ex-TPM. If you probably explained your ideology – your love for them, despite differences of opinion – then you may be able to bring them back to the TPM church.

    Obviously, you like the TPM church and they don’t. Find out what they don’t like about TPM. Tell us what you love about TPM. With a healthy debate – people can get new insights.


  211. Susan, Rachel Verghese & Daniel,

    It might be better to refrain from saying “its the Devil’s work.” Robinson, Anil & Jim love Christ. By that definition they are Christians and hence cannot do the devil’s work (No man can serve two masters). If you disagree with their views, maybe you could use the words “Un-Christian” “not-Christ-like” or “extra-Biblical teaching.”
    And also it might help if you didn’t use all caps – all captials make it more difficult to read.
    In the blog world,
    lower case – means talking
    all capitals – means shouting or emphasising a point


  212. Hi

    1. Robinson said, “Zion and New Jerusalem are meant for the Bride of Christ.”

    Does that mean that his wife who wears jewels cannot enter zion and new Jerusalem?

    Because his wife wears jewels does it mean that she should not lead a life of edification to others and to children?

    Where does the Bible say that believers other than workers and sunday school teachers only can wear jewels?

    2. Robinson said, “Taking Medicine is not a sin, to have a greater glory there are verses which gives faith and courage to get healing from God rather from men.”

    Where does the Bible say that there is greater glory if medicines are refused? Point the verse.

    3. Jesus said that the sick need a physician. This clearly means that doctors are part of the dominion that is ruled by Jesus.

    4. If Doctors do not belong to the dominion created by Jesus and if they are outlaws as Anil (Jim) states, why does TPM give communion to those doctors? All TPM Doctors as well are trained by the govt. of India to prescribe medicines and do surgery. Why are such TPM doctors and nurses given communion if they do not belong to the dominion created by Christ?

    Rather than escape and evade by accusing and not assuming wrongly that what they hold as “pearls”, let them (Jim-Anil), Robinson etc come out and answer.


  213. on January 24, 2009 at 6:29 am rachel varghese

    Robinson says, “When I knew the wiles of the devil, Its my duty to protect them at all cost. I just informed them to refrain themselves from answering the Tpm critics.( I think i am doing the same now). These susans and rachels (including you) are playing it for months.

    A debate on politics, sports and corporate world etc is commendable. But not with God and His ways. Right?”

    1. Is Robinson protecting them from the wiles of the Devil or is he protecting the “wiles of the devil”(in Robinson’s own words)? Robinson has not still proved that his and the TPM false doctrines to be otherwise. He still wants to hold fantastically that his theory is “pearl”.

    2. There are no TPM critics here. There are only those who highlight the false doctrines of TPM. Robinson has to understand the difference between “TPM” and “TPM false doctrines”

    3. These Susans and Rachels are not “playing” it for months. It is the TPM and you Robinson and Jim have been “playing around” without proving your false doctrines otherwise by your games of accusation and attention diversion. (And also by desperately trying to divert the Moderator to a discussion on atheism though you knew very well that atheism was not the topic of this blog). You were “playing” not anyone else!!

    4. Robinson thinks that his unbiblical false doctrines (unable to be proved to be true yet!!) and those of TPM are “God’s ways”!! TPM’s false doctrines has deceived thousands of youth who cannot discern between right and wrong. Are they God’s ways? That is very strange.

    Hope Robinson and those who play similar tricks face the truth rather than keep on evading!!


  214. Rachel & Susan,

    I am suprised that you take hints from me with such good grace. I am thankful that you can bring out the theological discrepancies….
    I wanted to know if the TPM has excommunicated anyone during the Singhalese vs Tamil issue….Maybe you could give me some background on it


  215. I ask because someone mentioned that there are some inaccuracies…it would help, if you could site some references.


  216. The person, who asked is himself a Sri Lankan Tamil, so I was curious….


  217. Dear Moderator

    If you could provide more background information on the matter, I could recollect relevant information or could enquire very reliable sources.

    Or could you point me to the blog message date or which decade of the incident etc. What did the Sri Lankan Tamil person ask precisely and what was the alegged innaccuracy?

    Hope to hear from you on the above.

    Please read the following for your information:

    HISTORY OF A TPM PASTOR BY NAME “LUKE” OR “LOOKKA”

    He is an ex-catholic. Then, after the experience of salvation, he was ministering as a pastor with Sis. Sarah Naoroji. Who is Sister Sarah Naoroji? She was the chief founding song composer in CPM.

    She left CPM around 1969 because of the adulterousness that was prevailing in CPM at that time, the author being Pastor Alwin who was the master Founder of all the “pet” doctrines of TPM like Eunuch-Celibate-Apostleship, Melchizedek priesthood for workers, 144,000 workers etc.

    Sister Sara left CPM and was ministering in her own church in Kelly’s in Chennai. God also used her as a mighty apostle with signs, wonders and miracles.

    Pastor Luke left her ministry and joined TPM. What is the reason for this transition? I believe the predominant reasons are the following:

    1. In Sarah Naoroji’s church, there are no sisters to cook chicken fry in coconut milk and provide apple juice every one hour.

    2. There are no facilities of carpeted floors, western closets, cars, A/c’s etc.

    Pastor Luke left for the above reasons and most probably not for the reasons, which he states (bluffs) in conventions. Those reasons, which he states, are just to please the TPM establishment (which certainly would get him special treatment (chicken fry) from Moopathi Chaechi for lunch.

    Sometimes he even speaks ill of Sister Sarah Naoroji’s ministry. Thus, his goal is to praise TPM and not Jesus Christ.

    Not realizing the above, the TPM believers in thousands naively sit and hear his bluffs and utter tens of vociferous “hallelujahs” as well.

    Remember, I love Looka and his calling but certainly not his “trust” in moopathi’s chicken fry and his bluffs (of TPM superiority-which works against the unity of the body of Christ for which Jesus yearned in John 17) as well!


  218. on January 25, 2009 at 10:09 am rachel varghese

    Hi,

    Thanks for your appreciation and you are welcome.

    God is using your blog site as an instrument to open the eyes of thousands of TPM believers who visit here.

    Let us pray that TPM follow a true sanctification process by shedding all their self-glorification and their false doctrines fabricated specifically to achieve that purpose.

    May God bless you.


  219. on January 25, 2009 at 1:09 pm rachel varghese

    Yes, ace, all the false doctrines of TPM will not be seen in the new earth and heaven.

    It will be seen only in TPM. People who rationalise and justify the false doctrines will also be seen only in TPM.

    He that is unjust (by fabricating worker -glorifying doctrines), let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy (by following Pas. Alwin’s unbiblical celibacy doctrines who later fell in adultery) , let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous (by willing to forsake TPM’s false doctrines), let him be righteous still: and he that is holy (by glorifying Christ rather than TPM workers), let him be holy still.

    And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.


  220. God is a devouring fire. You must first remember that, you ace and company.

    God does not tolerate your deceptions of the word of God which you do time and again just to glorify your workers.

    Do not accuse people who expose the truth. They are God’s servants.

    First you stop distorting the scriptures. God will judge you in TPM who distort the scriptures and not those who speak the truth.

    Do not think people will be fooled by your threats!!


  221. Phew ! Ace is next in line…….
    After Robinson, Jim and Anil, its next Ace’s turn to tell us how we are all going to get hell……..for rape, murder, extortion? No! We are all going to go to hell because we are free thinkers and have dared to question.
    So listen, everyone, free thinking is banned! Listen to your church! Listen to your pastor! If there’s abuse going on, shut up about it! If you don’t shut up about it, you’ll go to hell for being rebellious against the church! ;-)


  222. TPM CREATES A TERROR OF FEAR. HOW ??

    TPM wants to suppress the believers. Why? So that they can enjoy the money from the believers. How do they do it? By creating a terror of fear using the following statements.

    1) Firstly, TPM threatens believers saying, “Don’t speak against the Lord’s anointed”

    How to respond to them?

    Tell them, “The truth is that even the believers are anointed to be Holy & Royal priests as per 1 Peter 2 : 5, 9. Just because you are anointed does not mean you are licensed to misinterpret the Bible verses”.

    2) Secondly, TPM threatens believers saying, “Korah and his sons rebelled against Moses and they were destroyed”.

    How to reply to this?

    The truth is that Korah wanted to become a priest. But in the Old Testament, priesthood status and access to the Most Holy Place were given only to Aaron and his sons. However, in the new testament all believers of Christ are priests as per 1 Peter 2: 5, 9 and they also have access to the Most Holy Place as per Hebrews 10:19 which says, “Therefore, brothers, since we have confidence to enter the Most Holy Place by the blood of Jesus…”

    Thus TPM does not know that believers have the authority which Korah never had”.

    Tell them that exposing the misinterpretations of TPM has no relation to what Korah did. Exposing the misinterpretations of TPM is not rebellion. It is the TPM misinterpretations which are rebellion against God and His truth. Tell them this.

    3) TPM threatens believers saying, “Uzzah touched the ark and he was killed”.

    TPM does not know that Uzzah died not because of his sin but because of the sin of the Priests. The law was that the ark should be carried by the priests in their shoulders and not in an Oxen-cart. But the priests forgot that law and were careless. TPM hides this truth and instead passes the blame to Uzzah.

    Tell them that the Ark was holy but the misinterpretations of TPM are not holy.

    Conclusion: Thus TPM tries all hooks and crooks to threaten the believers to keep them as slaves & dependent on TPM. So do not be afraid of their threatening. Fear God and truth and not their lies.

    Their curses and threats will turn against them. Our God is a God of truth. Those who speak the truth, do not fear.


  223. Just beware!! Another instrument in a stack of cards (in the likes of Jim and Anil) trying desperately to divert the discussion away from the topic of this blog site!!

    This is one of the type of instruments in TPM which deceives thousands of young girls using doctrinal deceptions.

    People like this ace is one grim reminder of the extent TPM believers are brainwashed by the establishment.

    Do not give up before these male chauvinists!! Rise up for truth.

    Ace will come and go but the truth of God will prevail!! Just remember, God used Deborah, Hannah, Mary Magdalene and many others for His glorious ministry!! Some demons do not like women.

    I would request the Moderator not to permit this ace to put up posts any further. Such posts do not contribute to the purpose of this blog and furthermore, it is unscripturally abusive against women.


  224. By blaming those who speak the truth, you ace are storing curses for you and your wicked worker-glorifying generations like as Jews said let His (Jesus) ” let his blood be on me (ace) and all our (ace’s) children!!

    All TPM gossipers like ace and worker glorifiers and doctrinal distorters, remember it!!


  225. on January 26, 2009 at 2:23 pm rachel varghese

    SISTER VS A WIFE?

    An apostle needs no permission to take a sister to work along with him. That is why we see Paul the apostle had many sisters who worked with him in the ministry. Eg. Phoebe (Rom 16:1), Tryphosa, Tryphena, Persis (Rom 16:12),

    However, in 1 Corinthians 9:5, Paul claims his authority to marry. Why? Because the other apostles also were married. No apostle renounced their marriage life because Jesus said, “What God has joined together let not man put asunder”. Jesus commanded to renounce marriage & property only if the wife or property hindered the husband from following Jesus and thus gain eternal life (Matt 19:29).

    However, TPM falsely teaches to renounce marriage before doing ministry. Bible nowhere says that celibacy is a prerequisite to be an apostle. That was the fabrication of Pas. Alwin.

    That is why Pastor Manohar, Pastor Joseph lived with their wife and had children born in the faith home just like Pastor Paul the founder. Because Pastor Paul was not from a catholic background but was a catechist in a Baptist church where Pastors marry.

    Pastor Alwin celibacy doctrine from Catholicism and Buddhism which was prevalent in Ceylon. This Alwin committed adultery in France faith home and was excommunicated in India.

    People who do not know the above keep bragging about celibacy consecration and about the TPM pastors instead of bragging about Jesus Christ.

    Such people display zeal for TPM workers and not for Christ.


  226. Ace,

    You are hilarious! Women are evil! Women’s best friends are demons! Demons like women! Eve got sued (by which lawyer, may I ask?)! A woman is behind every man’s fall!
    Are you even real? or is this supposed to be satire!
    I have heard of Christians being misogynist, but you are misogynist to the point of being thought insane.
    If a Christian church can accept you with your intense hatred for women, am I glad I don’t belong to it!


  227. Dear Moderator and my friends,

    I think Jesus loves women more and first appeared to a woman after His resurrection. The men did not get this opportunity.

    God chose women to be mighty prophets of God like Kathryn Kuhlmann etc.

    TPM believers cannot think beyond what they are trained or brainwashed to think. Actually it might appear that they spend more time for God. However, their knowledge of the scriptures is very poor.

    The reason is because they are made to depend on the workers like suckling babes. You should see them run on Sundays for the sermon and especially the Irumbuliyur convention just like people flock to Sabari Mala.

    TPM believers are not trained to hear the voice of the Holy Spirit and get a word of encouragement and knowledge let alone share that knowledge as gospel to others.

    Only thing they know is defend the workers irrationally.

    You would have observed ace by now. There was no quotations from scriptures. Just copy and paste from a chapter and with a distorted interpretation. All TPM people like these know to threaten and curse meaninglessly.


  228. Ineffeminate usually means gay. Not that I have anything against that community. But I can assure you neither me nor David Raj are gay.
    And isn’t calling some ineffeminate, hitting below the belt?

    And David pl call me Rachel, I am no longer the moderator i.e. I don’t moderate comments. I have disabled comment moderation.
    David,
    Maybe it was your defense of Godly women, that made Ace say you were ineffiminate….though why he should I don’t know. Ace is highly illogical! I wonder if he’ll next call Christ ineffiminate…… because Christ wanted women to take part in theology (Mary – Martha story) and highly respected women from all strata of soceity (including prostitutes).


  229. why to argue when there is no time,the coming of the lord is very nigh,i wish and pray,no single soul should go into satans hands


  230. Is there a remedy for ace’s sickness of abusing and accusing just like the Accuser in Rev 12?

    Is there a remedy for the scriptural distortions of TPM?

    The Lord’s coming is nigh. So try to have a real sanctification not just in white dresses but also in giving up the doctrinal distortions.

    Sherly seems to be reluctant to pray for TPM to stop their scriptural misinterpretations and their deception of youth with false doctrines.

    Pray also for the deceived and brainwashed souls in TPM who are elslaved by false doctrines.


  231. Dear Sherly,

    why to argue when there is no time,the coming of the lord is very nigh,i wish and pray,no single soul should go into satans hands
    Well, you have just joined the argument or debate by stating your view ;-)


  232. That was Rachel’s excellent logic!

    Sherly’s statement, “why to argue…” is self refuting. Sherly has already got into an argument and seems to disprove the meaning of argumentation.

    TPM loves to be vociferous on their doctrinal claims but when their falsities are challenged theologically they turn back and say, “Do not argue”. That is ridiculous!!

    TPM believers seem to buy into this same habit and follow suit in their statements.

    The sad part is why Rachel refuses to function as a moderator since some posts as those of ace which do no good to the purpose of this blog could be disallowed.


  233. Susan,

    The reason I have stopped moderating comments is because I am not online regularly. So there is always a backlog of comments…..People don’t like it if their comments are kept pending for days on end..
    And about ace…well …..I’ll edit his comments


  234. Making a come-back… And this is me.. very ME reloaded…

    The Bible itself admits that Christianity doesn’t stand up to those who are searching for truth, who are educated, who are open-minded.

    You shud be open minded, but not soo much OPEN that your brain leaks…

    God chose women to be mighty prophets of God like Kathryn Kuhlmann etc.

    How come this “etc” comes here wen not more than 1 name is mentioned?? May be because they numbered in the finger tips??

    Is there a remedy for ace’s sickness of abusing and accusing just like the Accuser in Rev 12?

    You wud have never asked this if you believed in the existence of God to have a remedy.. Is there any remedy for David’s lack of understanding in interpretting Rev 12?? —- YES.. Kneel and pray to God to give you wisdom..

    The Lord’s coming is nigh. So try to have a real sanctification not just in white dresses but also in giving up the doctrinal distortions.

    Wen Lord’s coming is nigh, how can you pray for others wen you are not sure if you are ready?? btw, do you wear white sarees and dress?? if there are some of them, why u worried?? PREPARE YOURSELF David…

    Pray also for the deceived and brainwashed souls in TPM who are elslaved by false doctrines.

    Please pray if you have time and ASSURED that ur name is already there in the book of life… btw, It is “enslaved” not “elslaved”

    Ineffeminate usually means gay

    Arent you sure sure about it— (USUALLY) and you are a journalist!!! I hope now you know its meaning.

    correct your rotten organization or denomination where you belongs,

    I strongly support this because I’ve experienced the true color of it…. its dirtier than what you can ever think… beyond imagination… not mentioning names here.. not worth… theres a difference betn u murmuring and complaining natured people and ME.

    If a Christian church can accept you with your intense hatred for women, am I glad I don’t belong to it!

    Theres no hatred for the women.. but respect, love and care…. God created man and woman with seperate identity with different qualities. Men has what women dont… Women posseses what men dont… eg: patience, grace, love, fullness of care, a loving heart, a peaceful nature, soothing smile, and so on. And men… I dont need to mention them. And so is their role accordingly in the society…

    Its the law of nature crafetd out by the Mighy hand above. (For Rachel Chitra this is stupidity… but ready to accept adamantly that world popped up into existence with a Big Bang from nowhere) SHE deserves a painful delivery of babies… cos that is the law of nature and that how God cursed HER. Painless delivery these days are artificially done which is going against the law of nature… In the same manner so was the man cursed that he will earn for the family and will run the household with sweat and struggle… So they are strong, sturdy and good in every way…. cos that is the law.

    Cooking is considered to be a woman’s work… Right?? But have you noticed that Men are the world’s best chefs and bartenders??? You think of any such examples of what woman do mostly and you’ll notice that the man is stands out in them, cos they are created that way.

    However, in 1 Corinthians 9:5, Paul claims his authority to marry. Why?

    Hmmm.. I’m tired now trying to explain this again and again…. My question to this question is: Was Paul the Apostle who wrote Corinthians married??? Theres a whole chapter explaining why NOT….. Marrying and serving the Lord IS NOT A SIN and is a HIGH calling thats right. But the apostles in this context chose the BEST way to minister the Lord and that is a HIGHER calling… Does this makes sense NOW?? I hope YES.

    Who abuse? Only your supporters made this coloumn for gossiping and labelling our TPM workers as adulters!

    RIGHT. Bad use of internet again…. its gosipping more than labelling… Its way of becoming popular in the internet. The thing is if the authir had been an athiest, she would have pulled downt the whole blog as these gossips makes no sense at all for her. And as far as she is thinking of reconstruction or bringing change to the religious institutes as she has claimed before, its a self-contradiction…. u can make out.. she already popular…

    EG: Tomorrow if you begin a blog with heading as “I’m an aliegn from Mars” with some attractive postings and fancy pictures, people wud flock into your blog like never before. And the result..???? YOU ARE FAMOUS !!!!

    that is why Pastor Manohar, Pastor Joseph lived with their wife and had children born in the faith home just like Pastor Paul the founder.

    Do you know that Pas Manohar spent more than 20 yrs in Delhi center doing the kitchen duty??? No sister, no mother in the whole of tpm holds that kind of record… “Men topping the kitchen duty too !!!!” and you say, Sisters should be allowed to preach, when they are told to sit and take rest instead of giving speaches which wud leave them exhausted within 15 mins ??

    Are you even real? or is this supposed to be satire!

    What do you mean.. that you are so popular on the internet that people have started using malicious programing codes and hacking tools to automatically generate posts here??

    All TPM gossipers like ace and worker glorifiers and doctrinal distorters, remember it!!

    Point me a blog where tpm believers have flocked together to gossip like you people here about other faiths and cursing thier doctrines when even young sunday school students of TPM can point out the faults in other churches…. but we dont do that dirty business nor encourage our generations for it… Mind it.

    We are all going to go to hell because we are free thinkers and have dared to question.

    Not “Free-thinkers” but this is “open-mindedness”… so wide open that all your brains have already started falling down.

    …and “WE Dared to question/ WE are free thinkers”… wht does that mean?? that you are not an athiest but fanatics like Susan and the other Rachel ORSusan and Rachel are also athiests??? Explain the “WE”

    Do not accuse people who expose the truth. They are God’s servants.

    Why dont you all God’s servants please COME FORWARD leave all your education, Job and everything and begin His ministry?? Start a new church…. WHY CANT YOU??? TAKE UP THE SWORDS (BIBLE) AND COME OUT AND DO HIS MINISTRY… CREATE A TRUE CHURCH, IF YOU KNOW TRUTH MORE THAN WHATEVER…. HAVE GUTS????

    I ASK YOU AGAIN… “U HAVE GUTS to do that ???”

    God is using your blog site as an instrument to open the eyes of thousands of TPM believers who visit here.

    First technically, a “blog” is never a “site” and a “site” is never a “blog”. So this is a blog and not site and also NOT so called “blog site”

    Secondly God is never using this blog as some instrument to open eyes of blah blah blah…. wen the author/owner/moderator herself is an athiest, the greatest fool accordning to the “Word of God'”…. So here Susan is trying to justify what?? or Susan is trying to make fun of the owner of this blog??? I doubt…

    Just beware!! Another instrument in a stack of cards (in the likes of Jim and Anil) trying desperately to divert the discussion away from the topic of this blog site!!

    Frankly asking…. btw, what is the main stream discussion or… gossip topic here…??? What I feel is tht its a blog created by someone who has undergone harsh sufferings of Chrstian life which is indeed a tough job as a christian esp in TPM.

    About that test for me (Do remember this is not high-school) by rachel Chitra when I gave her the Athiest’s test…

    I very well know that you are not in the high-school and nor am I… I know that you are much more matured now.. So why cant you answer all my questions??? I believe they are easy for you and so is for every man… Cos ur afraid that you’ll be proven a ‘fool’ and so will the ‘word of God’ be.. as in Ps. 14:1. Afraid or dare to answer the simple questions??

    JIM LIKES TO DIVERT THE MODERATOR TO A DISCUSSION TO ATHEISM FROM EXPOSING TPM. THE MODERATOR MUST RECOGNISE THIS CUNNING STRATEGY OF JIM.

    The moderator can never recognise anything which doesnt even exist.. and esp.. when she is an athiest…


  235. Anil might get offended, he’s Methodist.

    So what if I am a methodist…. ?? I’m not at all offended… Most importantly, I’am a Christian who follow Christ and not some pentacostal or Catholic or Methodist…


  236. Your spellings are atrocious! I sometimes can’t even make out what you are trying to say. I think you can write legibly, but in your anger you choose not to.

    Understand the content not the spellings.. Spellings arent important here wen you can really understand them. if you understand, well and gud. If not you can ask for an explanation….

    That was Rachel’s excellent logic!

    Rachel Chitra here refers the words from Bible, which means nothing to her.. (shes an athiest) and if you think this was so called a “logic” of hers wen Ps 14:1 screams to declare her as a fool, then I think you dont respect the Law of God and you too belong to the same category…

    The sad part is why Rachel refuses to function as a moderator since some posts as those of ace which do no good to the purpose of this blog could be disallowed.

    I challenge the moderator if she can supress or hide any of the posts from anybody unless theres any usage of of “vulgarity” or “obsceneness” and that every postings should be prohibited from being getting posted which promotes strife. Check out the votings on the top…. “This blog acts as cause of strife” stands out with highest in the online votings.

    And the good purpose??? What is it here that is good… Everybody spitting venom and are calling themselves as “free-thinkers”


  237. Ok, guys listen up!

    According to Jim, “my brain leaks.”

    Kathryn Kuhlmann…..whom else to list? Amy Carmichael, Florence Nightingale, Joan of Arc, Saint Brigid, Jocye Meyer, Catherine Marshall, Ruth Munce, Francine Rivers, Corrie Ten Boom, Elisabeth Elliot, Joanna southcott, Catherine Booth, Elizabeth Fry, Ellen G White, Evangeline Booth, Hannah Whitall Smith, Li Tim-Oi, Louisa Maria Hubbard, Mother Ann Lee, Phoebe Palmer, Mary Baker Eddy, Jackie Pullinger, Mother Teresa, Mme Guyon, Mother Cabrini, Elizabeth Ann Seton, Fuastina Kowalska, Katherine Drexel, Rose Philipine Duchesne, Teresa of Avila, St Catherine, St Therese’, Antoinette Bourignon, Heloise, Julian of Norwich, Clotilde.
    In the New Testament there were women like Lydia, Phoboe, Mary Magdalene, Mary of Bethany, Mary – mother of Jesus and Prsicilla.


  238. Jim corrects David’s English: It is “enslaved” not “elslaved”
    But then he says “Understand the content not the spellings.. Spellings arent important here wen you can really understand them. if you understand, well and gud. If not you can ask for an explanation….”
    He also further corrects us: “First technically, a “blog” is never a “site” and a “site” is never a “blog”. So this is a blog and not site and also NOT so called “blog site”

    That was Rachel’s excellent logic!

    Rachel Chitra here refers the words from Bible, which means nothing to her.. (shes an athiest) and if you think this was so called a “logic” of hers wen Ps 14:1 screams to declare her as a fool, then I think you dont respect the Law of God and you too belong to the same category…

    Jim,

    Susan was referring to my comment to Sheryl and I didn’t refer to any Bible verse.


  239. I challenge the moderator if she can supress or hide any of the posts from anybody unless theres any usage of of “vulgarity” or “obsceneness” and that every postings should be prohibited from being getting posted which promotes strife. Check out the votings on the top…. “This blog acts as cause of strife” stands out with highest in the online votings.

    Jim,

    This is my blog, I can do what I please with it ;-)
    And about the voting and poll, you are forgetting I was the one who posted it.


  240. My father is not a British man. i make mistakes while writing english. With little English, you gossiping menials are writing too much. It seems you are all graduated from oxford university and Harvard university. sick women!

    Ace,

    I am sorry I did not mean to make fun of your English. I thought you were doing it purposely to tease us. And even if ur English is bad, I am sure you can get the names of people right – you called Susan “Susuan.” I am sure you will not like it if someone misspells your name.
    But calling us “gossiping menials” and saying we are “sick women” is quite Un-Christian of you.


  241. Jim,

    Making a come-back… And this is me.. very ME reloaded…

    Well we are glad you got your batteries recharged ;-)

    Daniel Florein of http://unreasonablefaith.com says “The Bible itself admits that Christianity doesn’t stand up to those who are searching for truth, who are educated, who are open-minded.”
    But I do agree with the sum and substance of the article.

    “You shud be open minded, but not soo much OPEN that your brain leaks…”

    Jim,

    You say my brain leaks because of my atheist beliefs, if I said the same thing to you, how would you react? How can you constantly keep insulting someone? How do you pray at night with the knowledge that you have hurt someone?

    God chose women to be mighty prophets of God like Kathryn Kuhlmann. How come this “etc” comes here wen not more than 1 name is mentioned?? May be because they numbered in the finger tips??

    Why shouldn’t God bless women as well and why can’t women preach the gospel? Are men and women not equal in Christ? I have already provided a long list of Christian godly women. If you want I can even make a list of 100….there are countless women dedicated to the service of God. Why should one’s sex determine one’s pastoral abilities?

    You wud have never asked this if you believed in the existence of God to have a remedy.. Is there any remedy for David’s lack of understanding in interpretting Rev 12?? —- YES.. Kneel and pray to God to give you wisdom..

    How can you say you are holier than David that you can stand on a high pedestal and advise him to “Kneel and pray to God to give you wisdom.” Are you saying he does not have wisdom? He’s supposed to be your brother in the body of Christ.

    Ineffeminate usually means gay Arent you sure sure about it— (USUALLY) and you are a journalist!!! I hope now you know its meaning.

    Insulting as usual! Phew!

    <i>correct your rotten organization or denomination where you belongs,

    I strongly support this because I’ve experienced the true color of it…. its dirtier than what you can ever think… beyond imagination… not mentioning names here.. not worth… theres a difference betn u murmuring and complaining natured people and ME.

    You do not want other Christians criticizing the TPM, yet you criticize their churches. Whats the difference?

    For Rachel Chitra this is stupidity… but ready to accept adamantly that world popped up into existence with a Big Bang from nowhere. SHE deserves a painful delivery of babies… cos that is the law of nature and that how God cursed HER. Painless delivery these days are artificially done which is going against the law of nature…

    Well if God can come from nowhere, then I guess the universe can also. I can’t believe you want women to suffer from labour pain without medication. Quite heartless!

    Cooking is considered to be a woman’s work… Right?? But have you noticed that Men are the world’s best chefs and bartenders??? You think of any such examples of what woman do mostly and you’ll notice that the man is stands out in them, cos they are created that way.

    Cooking is considered to be a woman’s work? How sexist! And are you saying the fact that there are more male bartenders than female bartenders, makes men superior to women?
    On another thought, I thought you’d be happy there are not too many women bartenders because of all your preoccupations with morality.


    Who abuse? Only your supporters made this coloumn for gossiping and labelling our TPM workers as adulters!

    RIGHT. Bad use of internet again…. its gosipping more than labelling… Its way of becoming popular in the internet. The thing is if the authir had been an athiest, she would have pulled downt the whole blog as these gossips makes no sense at all for her. And as far as she is thinking of reconstruction or bringing change to the religious institutes as she has claimed before, its a self-contradiction…. u can make out.. she already popular…

    EG: Tomorrow if you begin a blog with heading as “I’m an aliegn from Mars” with some attractive postings and fancy pictures, people wud flock into your blog like never before. And the result..???? YOU ARE FAMOUS !!!!

    Who is to decide what is bad use of the internet and what is good use? Its just a matter of personal opinion. “Gossip” – is the idle talk or rumor, especially about the personal or private affairs of others. Talking about a very “public church” and its very “public doctrines” is not gossip. If I debated on Dravidian politics, would you call it gossip? No! Because you know its in the public forum.

    Fame? You wouldn’t be further off the mark. I have written for Deccan Chronicle and Indian Express – both paper’s circulation is more than a few lakhs..my blog readership is hardly 40,000. If I wanted readers, I already have my job. I don’t need the blog.
    Again, this post was written more than a year ago and is just one of more than 200 posts I have written.

    Why do I post on Christianity if I am not a Christian? Because I don’t support spiritual abuse.

    that is why Pastor Manohar, Pastor Joseph lived with their wife and had children born in the faith home just like Pastor Paul the founder.

    Do you know that Pas Manohar spent more than 20 yrs in Delhi center doing the kitchen duty??? No sister, no mother in the whole of tpm holds that kind of record… “Men topping the kitchen duty too !!!!” and you say, Sisters should be allowed to preach, when they are told to sit and take rest instead of giving speaches which wud leave them exhausted within 15 mins ??

    I wish you wouldn’t grossly underestimate the working capabilities of women or maybe you have too little exposure. Women in the workforce work just as long and just as hard as men; they don’t get any special privileges.

    Are you even real? or is this supposed to be satire!

    What do you mean.. that you are so popular on the internet that people have started using malicious programing codes and hacking tools to automatically generate posts here??

    As usual you miss the point. I thought it might be you posting as Ace.

    Point me a blog where tpm believers have flocked together to gossip like you people here about other faiths and cursing thier doctrines when even young sunday school students of TPM can point out the faults in other churches…. but we dont do that dirty business nor encourage our generations for it… Mind it.

    Jim, you are contradicting yourself. You and Ace have just now spoken about how rotten other congregations are.

    Not “Free-thinkers” but this is “open-mindedness”… so wide open that all your brains have already started falling down.

    Can’t you talk sense? Must it always be insult, insult and more insults!

    You know pretty well Susan and Rachel V are Christians. You knew what I was referring to when I talked about “free thinking.”
    Why should Ace condemn us to Hell for our views?


    Why dont you all God’s servants please COME FORWARD leave all your education, Job and everything and begin His ministry?? Start a new church…. WHY CANT YOU??? TAKE UP THE SWORDS (BIBLE) AND COME OUT AND DO HIS MINISTRY… CREATE A TRUE CHURCH, IF YOU KNOW TRUTH MORE THAN WHATEVER…. HAVE GUTS????

    I ASK YOU AGAIN… “U HAVE GUTS to do that ???”

    When you are not willing to give up your education or job in favour of full-time ministry, why must David, Susan or Rachel V do that just so that they can de-bunk the doctrines of the TPM?
    If you have the guts to give up every ambition of yours to work with the TPM, then you can ask other people whether they have the guts to start a church opposing the TPM.

    Secondly God is never using this blog as some instrument to open eyes of blah blah blah…. wen the author/owner/moderator herself is an athiest, the greatest fool accordning to the “Word of God'”…. So here Susan is trying to justify what?? or Susan is trying to make fun of the owner of this blog??? I doubt…

    Susan is only blessing me. I might not believe in god, but I am touched that she can show such kindness. And here you are again, insulting me ….the greatest fool accordning to the “Word of God'”.
    Can I say you are like the Pharisees and Saducees and claim I am speaking the Word of God? The Old Testament also approves of slavery. Do you also approve of slavery?
    The Old Testament also wants homosexuals stoned to death. Do you also want the homosexuals stoned to death?
    You quote the Bible to me and call me a “fool,” can I quote Bhagat Singh to you?

    What I feel is tht its a blog created by someone who has undergone harsh sufferings of Chrstian life which is indeed a tough job as a christian esp in TPM.

    Harsh is a very relative term. In fact I don’t have much to complain about my old church other than I found the teaching irritating. I never thought I’d say this but the AG church that I was a member concentrated more on conversions than on strict and over-legalistic doctrine. My friends, however, have been spiritually abused. And I am not a member of the TPM. I never was a member. And even if someone had suffered harshly, does it make their opinion invalid?

    About that test for me (Do remember this is not high-school) by rachel Chitra when I gave her the Athiest’s test…

    That test was insulting to say the least. You ask me to answer a question in which the only choices are either “I am an idiot” or “I am in denial.”

    Can I give you a similar test. Can I say if you believe in God a) you don’t know anything b) you are a fool or c) you are arrogant and in denial?

    I have asked you so many questions on God and science. Not one did you answer.
    Afraid to answer simple questions?
    Stop being so melodramatic. Its just a discussion not World War III


  242. Ceylon Pentecostal Mission (now TPM) Founder Pastor Paul or Ramankutty had accepted several married people into full-time TPM ministry and even had children.
    Pastor Paul ordained Pastor K.E. Abraham, who was married, as the founder of Indian Pentecostal Church (IPC). This event has also been mentioned in Pastor Paul’s biography.
    Though Pastor Paul advocated pastors to take the vow of celibacy like the Apostle Paul, he never demanded celibacy from anyone or rejected anyone for priesthood on the grounds that they were married.
    If Pastor Paul had rejected anyone from ministry for being married, then it would violating the principles of 1 Timothy 4:1-3 (Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.)

    Chief Pastor Alwin de Alwis introduced some controversial doctrines in the latter part of 1950’s and early part of 1960’s. Pastor Alwin supposedly taught that the only reason for marriage is lack of self-control and that an essential requirement for being a pastor was celibacy. These were not the teachings of Pastor Paul, so Pastor Freddy and the council of senior ministers rejected these.

    Pastor M. Daniel formally excommunicated the sitting Chief Pastor Alwin of CPM on charges of sexual impropriety while both of them were in France. After Pastor Paul’s son Freddy Paul became the Chief Pastor, the first announcement he wanted to make was that it would be perfectly acceptable for pastors and sisters to marry and remain in the ministry. With that in mind, he called a meeting of the senior ministers. However, the majority of the senior pastors suggested that if they make such an announcement, majority of the young male workers and female workers might pair up and request to be married.
    Remember, they were/are living in a communal environment (faith homes). That would have caused irreparable reputational damage to the then CPM in the eyes of the world. In addition, their argument was that CPM has a tradition of celibate ministers and if many ministers got married, it would completely change that tradition.

    Therefore, the decision was that they would not make such an announcement and would just remain silent on the issue of celibacy. That is why, I think, we are not able to find any official statement on this issue from TPM. They also decided that if anyone wanted to get married and wanted to continue in the ministry, he/she would be heavily discouraged or encouraged to leave the ministry and then marry. However, if any one insisted that he wanted to marry and continue in the ministry then he will be allowed to do so.

    After the Pastor Alwin crisis, several pastors left the ministry to get married. Some of the pastors in India got married and continued in the ministry. The TPM church in USA has married ministers.


  243. I just read some of Ace’s comments …..found it too nasty and deleted it!
    Ugh!


  244. Anil,

    I happened to go to Mulund faith home… its big… I couldnt blieve it was built without any foriegn aid. Its too gud.. the Sunday worship was great… The speech-topic was “forgiveness”… truly a great blessing.. but since the faith home is very far from my place.. its sad I wont be going every Sunday.

    I am happy for you, if you found the TPM church a blessing.

    This is for Susan, Rachel, David and all the same kind:
    Pls go thru 2 Timothy 3:13,14 and Romans 16: 17,18

    2 Timothy 3:13,14But evil people and impostors will go from bad to worse as they deceive others and are themselves deceived.But as for you, continue in what you have learned and found to be true, because you know from whom you learned it.

    Anil, you say I am evil and I am an imposter? Can you list out my evil actions? Or if you feel being an atheist automatically makes me immoral, don’t bother answering. Or do you think commenting is the evil action here? If so don’t you think you are over-reacting?
    And Imposter? There is definitely a person Rachel with a ration card, identity card, etc behind this blog. And Rachel Chitra is not a pen name, it is my real name, so I don’t see in what way I’m an imposter.

    Every christian has learnt in some or the ther way and there can be differences in them, as I’ve learnt it differently, Jim has learnt it differently and all others); and AVOID THEM.

    All of us have differences of opinion, granted. You avoid dicussions or participate. Its solely upto you.

    For they (susan, rachel, david and all belonging to same catagory) that are such serve NOT our Lord Jesus Christ, but THEIR (susan, rachel, david and all belonging to same catagory) OWN belly.

    Anil, when did you become knowledgable about my eating habits? For all you know, you might be much fatter than me. If you are fatter than me, can I accuse you of the sin of “gluttony”?For all you know I maybe anorexic…Your statements are Quite ridiculous!

    (As Jim said rightly “BUT THEN, IF ITS HELPING SOME OTHERS TO BURN-UP THIER ANGER, ANGUISH, FRUSTRATION, STERSS ETC OR WHATEVER…… LET THEM CONTINUE DOING SO…”);

    If you are saying my blog is a stress-buster, thanks for the compliment. And also thanks for letting us “continue doing so..” ;-)

    and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple (Eg: Rachel Chitra and many such others).”

    What nonsense! Where is the deception? Whom have I deceived? And why do people who agree with me automatically have to have a low IQ?

    And this is right… Even I’m not benefittig nything here… debating isnt life… but practising what you learnt would be something that would make some sense.

    If you are not benefiting from this dicussion. Why do you check my blog so often? Your visits get registered, if you didn’t know that.


  245. Can I give you a similar test. Can I say if you believe in God a) you don’t know anything b) you are a fool or c) you are arrogant and in denial?

    Yes. I have an answer to this. My choice is (b) I am a Fool !!!!.. The Word of my Lord telles me in Acts 5:41 “And they departed from the presence of the council, rejoicing that they were counted worthy to suffer shame for his name.”

    Now ur turn to answer my questions !!! Ready??

    You say my brain leaks because of my atheist beliefs, if I said the same thing to you, how would you react?

    My reaction will be as cool as above. Read Acts 5:41

    I have already provided a long list of Christian godly women. If you want I can even make a list of 100….there are countless women dedicated to the service of God. Why should one’s sex determine one’s pastoral abilities?

    I know many godly woman exists… You can find them in every tpm church as sisters and mothers… yea they are countless… Sex doesnt determine the pastoral abilities, what determines is the way they have been created. Turn to the history pages and tell me how many were woman desciples among the 12 that Jesus had?? How many Gospels do we have written by woman??

    How can you say you are holier than David that you can stand on a high pedestal and advise him to “Kneel and pray to God to give you wisdom.” Are you saying he does not have wisdom? He’s supposed to be your brother in the body of Christ.

    Who says I am holier than some David?? Did I ever say tht?? My brother or sister or whatever in Christ… How is that making any sense to you?? You are an athiest I suppose…

    Jim, you are contradicting yourself. You and Ace have just now spoken about how rotten other congregations are.

    Thats because of the existence of this rotten blog, I was telling you all to point a blog dedicated to criticising other faith by tpm people. Can you point me one?? We indded said other congregations are rotten but never named them.

    Well if God can come from nowhere, then I guess the universe can also. I can’t believe you want women to suffer from labour pain without medication. Quite heartless!

    the Word says God is Alpha and Omega, Omnipotent, Omnipresent, and Omniscient. Now dont say Bible was written by man and blah blah blah… btw woman not taking medicines is their personal faith and consecration. Any questions on personal faiths?? ??

    When you are not willing to give up your education or job in favour of full-time ministry, why must David, Susan or Rachel V do that just so that they can de-bunk the doctrines of the TPM?
    If you have the guts to give up every ambition of yours to work with the TPM, then you can ask other people whether they have the guts to start a church opposing the TPM.

    I am happy with my church and its ministry… a hanfull of people cant determine or shake my faith in my Lord of how I’ve been taught about my Lord. So why I must give up my jobs and education to start a new church wen I’m already happy with my church’s doctrines. And debunking??? Even I can debunk many of the “pet” and idiotic doctrines of other churches. But since I’m contended with mine, I dont have to look anywhere else. This only proves that they are still digging in for truth and are not satisfied going around blaming and criticising other churches and their doctrines for the satisfaction of their own belly, spitting out venom and creating confusions and division among the Christians.

    So I ask them again, DO YOU HAVE GUTS to start a new church if you know the truth to its completeness??? IT IS LIKE ONLY THEY CAN BRING FORTH A TRUE PENTACOSTAL REVOLUTION IN THE WHOLE WORLD.

    Now c’mmon leave your “holier-than-thou” attitude and stop criticising others.

    And here you are again, insulting me ….the greatest fool accordning to the “Word of God’”.

    Sorry if you took it as an insult… But my intention was not that. Its just the general fact I wanted to bring forth to everyone’s attention, fact about everyone who believe that “Theres no God”. May God forgive me for typing those lines within inverted comas.

    Can I say you are like the Pharisees and Saducees and claim I am speaking the Word of God? The Old Testament also approves of slavery. Do you also approve of slavery

    You can call me whatever from a “dog” to “monster” or “Pharisees” or whatever.. Frankly.. I wont mind as loong as I have Acts 5:41 with me.

    I wish you wouldn’t grossly underestimate the working capabilities of women or maybe you have too little exposure. Women in the workforce work just as long and just as hard as men; they don’t get any special privileges.

    All I can comment about the above is “Women who seek to be equal to men, lack ambition and goes on to prove the same, time and again whenever this topic is talked about.”

    I have asked you so many questions on God and science. Not one did you answer.

    The concept of God is beyond the reach of concept of science. And far as the Word says, blessings are for them who believe in Him blindly, as human or its brain cannot percieve them. Thats the reason why Jesus chose simple men to be His disciples. The more knowledge, more is pride and arrogance and it can be clearly seen in all the athiets.
    So Rachel, if you go on with kind of attitude, you can never understand God. Faith is the only way, by how God can be experienced.


  246. I’m not here to insult anyone but expose actual dirty intentions of creating confusions among other weaker souls who are new in this faith and are recenly saved. People posting in here with this intension must understand this. Sorry if anyone has personally taken it as an insult.


  247. Kathryn Kuhlmann…..whom else to list? Amy Carmichael, Florence Nightingale, Joan of Arc, Saint Brigid, Jocye Meyer, Catherine Marshall, Ruth Munce, Francine Rivers, Corrie Ten Boom, Elisabeth Elliot, Joanna southcott, Catherine Booth, Elizabeth Fry, Ellen G White, Evangeline Booth, Hannah Whitall Smith, Li Tim-Oi, Louisa Maria Hubbard, Mother Ann Lee, Phoebe Palmer, Mary Baker Eddy, Jackie Pullinger, Mother Teresa, Mme Guyon, Mother Cabrini, Elizabeth Ann Seton, Fuastina Kowalska, Katherine Drexel, Rose Philipine Duchesne, Teresa of Avila, St Catherine, St Therese’, Antoinette Bourignon, Heloise, Julian of Norwich, Clotilde.

    Whos next?? Can we expect Rachel Varghese and Susan George to be included among these names for their work here in the blog??

    Do something useful, something fruitful for the people around you like they did. Learn from them.


  248. Jim,

    Yes. I have an answer to this. My choice is (b) I am a Fool !!!!.. The Word of my Lord telles me in Acts 5:41 “And they departed from the presence of the council, rejoicing that they were counted worthy to suffer shame for his name.”

    Now ur turn to answer my questions !!! Ready??

    As usual you miss the point! Phew! What I was trying to say was I found the test insulting and hence didn’t answer.

    I wasn’t saying “because my brain leaks, your brain also leaks.”
    I was saying don’t insult me.

    tell me how many were woman desciples among the 12 that Jesus had?? How many Gospels do we have written by woman??

    Christ lived in a patriarchal society. Even Paul said, “Women should be silent in church.” In a patriarchal set-up, how will women be allowed to minister the gospel? When women aren’t allowed to be pastors in the 21st Century, how would they be allowed 2,000 years ago?

    Who says I am holier than some David?? Did I ever say tht?? My brother or sister or whatever in Christ… How is that making any sense to you?? You are an athiest I suppose…

    If you are not holier than David, you have no right to command him to “kneel or pray.” David is capable of doing that without your admonision.
    Me being an atheist does not mean I do not believe in fair play or the relevance of what Christ said.

    Thats because of the existence of this rotten blog, I was telling you all to point a blog dedicated to criticising other faith by tpm people. Can you point me one?? We indded said other congregations are rotten but never named them.

    Oh! So we can criticise everyone, we just shouldn’t name them…..twisted logic

    This only proves that they are still digging in for truth and are not satisfied going around blaming and criticising other churches and their doctrines for the satisfaction of their own belly, spitting out venom and creating confusions and division among the Christians.

    You told David to start his own ministry. I retorted by asking why don’t you do the same before asking others to do so?

    You can call me whatever from a “dog” to “monster” or “Pharisees” or whatever.. Frankly.. I wont mind as loong as I have Acts 5:41 with me.

    Again you miss the point. I said can I…I didn’t say you are.
    The point I was trying to make was don’t insult me.

    All I can comment about the above is “Women who seek to be equal to men, lack ambition and goes on to prove the same, time and again whenever this topic is talked about.”

    Women don’t seek to be equal to men. They know they are equals.

    So Rachel, if you go on with kind of attitude, you can never understand God. Faith is the only way, by how God can be experienced.

    Jim, …I told you more than 50 comment ago, that your faith is your personal conviction. You said you could prove it with science. Now, you say you can’t prove God with science.


  249. Dear Bro and Sis, give all things in the hand of God. Let us pray for one another. Let all the denominations be broken. We are all one body in Christ. We have one God, therefore let us be one. The strength of Christianity is in Unity and oneness of mind. We all belong to the same Father who is in heaven. Let us lift the name of Jesus high above all the names and denominations. Amen.


  250. Noble thoughts David…


  251. Oh! So we can criticise everyone, we just shouldn’t name them…..twisted logic

    So you mean someone HAS a blog where tpm people have flocked together and are criticising other faiths but not naming them..??? In short what I meant to sum up is to stop this useless business of criticising. Its not bringing any fruits.

    You say you are sorry if you insulted me. In the same line you again insult me by saying I “have actual dirty intentions.”

    Its not YOU as per you’ve mentioned.. It was a general statement for all those with “so and so intentions I’ve mentioned” its the way how you want to percieve because you know that its the truth. Now dont you say.. I’m insulting you again… Now its like you are hitting me… and that perhaps I wud need an apology from you.

    Christ lived in a patriarchal society. Even Paul said, “Women should be silent in church.” In a patriarchal set-up, how will women be allowed to minister the gospel? When women aren’t allowed to be pastors in the 21st Century, how would they be allowed 2,000 years ago?

    Thats what even I am trying to explain you.. Put in the other way “When women aren’t allowed to be pastors 2,000 years ago how would they be allowed in the 21st Century??” Christ lived ofcourse in the patriarchal society but his teachings should be taken as… as new as the breaking of the new day. So words are words… when its said woman should be silent, they should be silent in the church.


  252. Jim,

    You are illogical to the extreme and there’s no way I can hold a sensible discussion with you. So lets just drop the topic.

    Regards,
    Rachel


  253. I think I might close all comments. I don’t see why I should be allowing such mud-slinging matches.


  254. David,

    I agreee with you and stand by the moderator’s comments on the same…. “Noble thoughts David…”

    Thats indeed a noble thought.

    Jim


  255. Rachel, our God is not dead God. He is living and His eyes are upon us continually. Only He alone can convince us, comfort us, lead us, uphold us, no one or no one’s comments can guide you, convince you etc.. Different people have different opinions. But Word of God is lamp unto our feet and light unto our path. Are you disaapointed or discouraged in your life. Jesus is ready to speak with you. Are you ready? Make a small prayer from the depth of your heart though you might be in whatever state. I assure you that peace of God that passeth all understanding shall flow through you. Amen in Jesus.


  256. You are illogical to the extreme and there’s no way I can hold a sensible discussion with you. So lets just drop the topic.

    The whole of this blog and all these discussions were already illogical beyond extreme right from the beginning… I just dropped in from nowhere to add some logic but I’ve already failed. But dont you please drop the topic… but rather do good and please be kind enough to pull down the whole page of this blog…. Its spreading strife and divisions among Christians esp. weaker souls who just got to know Christ. You being an athiest is ok but please dont spread YOUR gospel among the weaker souls by joining hands with other church-critics. Its an appeal, a humble one.


  257. Thanks for the kind words David, the gesture is much appreciated


  258. I think I might close all comments. I don’t see why I should be allowing such mud-slinging matches.

    I think “mud-slinging” was the main objective of this blog against some tpm. When oppositions landed, esp from Mr. ace then you are thinking of closing the comments.

    This is not fair Sis Rachel. We need more positive and soothing posts as of David. Its truly so encouraging.


  259. on January 28, 2009 at 10:18 am rachel varghese

    Dear Ladies and Gentlemen,

    END TIME WORK OF GOD

    The following is an article on the above subject. Hope it will be a blessing:

    We know very well that prophet Elijah had a mantle. While he was taken up, his mantle fell on Elisha. Who gave that mantle to Elijah? Jesus Christ, the Son of God.

    Similarly, before the second coming, our Lord Jesus desires to place the mantle of Elijah upon millions of anointed Believers. Our Lord plans to use the ordinary anointed Believers according to the following verse:

    John 14: 12: “I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.”

    If we remember, this promise is not yet fulfilled. Jesus is going to fulfill this in the End Time.

    Many Christian believers say, “I do not have Bible wisdom”, “I am unable to preach”, “I do not have revelation to preach”, “I do not have the spiritual gifts to heal or prophecy”.

    However, what does the Lord say? “I will give you these. Just have faith. Peter was an illiterate. Paul was taught Judaism not the truth. However, I took these insignificant weaklings and used them. I will likewise use you if you admit your weakness and trust me and my bounty”.

    Will we heed to this call of the Lord? The Israelites despised Canaan because they did not have confidence in God. Will we also despise the Lord and His mantle?

    CONTENTEDNESS:

    We may rest content with our material and financial blessings. However, we must never rest content with spiritual blessings. Let us encourage ourselves & others with this message, to ask & wait for the gifts of the Holy Spirit and to be equipped to preach and teach the word of God. Jesus longs to give the mantle of Elijah to every insignificant Christian. A new era has begun!!

    God bless you.


  260. Sis Rachel V,

    A great insight indeed, but a few corrections here please.

    Our Lord plans to use the ordinary anointed Believers

    How can anointed believers be ordinary?? infact they are extra-ordinary. Dont you think so?

    Jesus longs to give the mantle of Elijah to every insignificant Christian

    Ofcourse yes. Christ came all the way leaving all His glory from above for sinners and insignificants and not for those who are perfect. But when Jesus gives the mantle of Elijah to these insignificant Christians, they are no more insignificant but ANOINTED and very much SIGNIFICANT.

    Every insignificant wordly-namely christians cannot recieve the mantle of Elijah unless they prepare themselves and become anointed and SIGNIFICANT Christians.

    Given the rest of the content; its BEAUtiful.


  261. on January 29, 2009 at 5:14 am rachel varghese

    Jim,

    Good appreciation, but some corrections to some of Jim’s false perceptions:

    Insignificant refers to the perspective of those anointed Christians. Though they are anointed they consider themselves insignificant.

    However in God’s eyes they are significant because He is willing to give the spirit of prophecy to everyone who desires and asks as per 1 Cor 14:1.

    Anointed Christians have to realise that they have entry into the most holy place where the priests and levites, let alone the Israelites, were forbidden.

    Only Aaron was allowed. But when Jesus died the veil (due to Adam’s sin) that separated man from God, WAS TORN.

    Jesus, by His Blood, opened the way to His Father, and longs to take every anointed believer to His Father.

    Jesus has given His Spirit, to enable the anointed to speak tongues which are intimacies with the Father.

    In the most holy place, the Father longs to speak to the anointed people and share secrets.

    Jesus has done a great work. However, the anointed christians have not understood the passage that Jesus created to the Father.

    The anointed are reluctant to know that they are priests. They think they are significant because they were taught so. They depend on middle agents just like the catholics depend on unmarried fathers and saints and nuns.

    The anointed should know that the Holy Spirit could speak to them as per 1 John 2:27 ,

    “As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit—just as it has taught you, remain in him.”

    TPM has to teach this and stop the lie of Melchizedek-calling-for-workers, 144,000, celibate apostleship which were founded by Pas. Alwin.


  262. Very true, all the TPM doctrines that were fabricated to create an identity for TPM were created by Pastor Alwin and promoted fervently by Pastor AC Thomas and successors.

    Those doctrines are the ones stated earlier like Melchizedek-calling-for-TPM workers, 144,000, celibate apostleship, medicine- consumption-is-sinful, women-defile etc.

    We must be very careful of such TPM’s doctrines because these serve to enslave the believers to the workers and hinders the believers from focussing on Christ and serving Him.


  263. My goodness – what a lot of posts here on TPM/CPM … Let me put down a few positives-negatives from TPM …. I have been a member there for around 7 years:

    Positives—
    a. willingness to sacrifice materials things for God

    Negatives—-
    a. heavy emphasis on attending all the meeetings of the week ( around 4-6 meetings a week) – if people dont attend they make them feel guilty and condemned

    b. no emphasis or teaching on evangelism — which results in selfish believers — each believers wants to become perfect … with no concern on perishing souls

    c. having medicine is a strict no there — I ask — is it better to kill or to save (Jesus asked the same question) — is it better to save a human being or soul OR let him die ….

    d. they look at other ministries in a very low manner — calling them as having only the gospel of salvation and deliverance whereas TPM has gospel of glory …… I find that TPM has gospel of selfishness and puffed up knowledge…

    e. Almost NO emphasis on teachings on Christ — exceptions are late Chief Paster TU Thomas , Pastor Don and may be a few others — rest all preach craftily from the Old testament and from Pauls teaching week after week ( 4-6 times a week )

    f. they look down upon the relationship between a husband and wife —- as something sinful —- which could be one reason why so many CPM families are a mess — a majority of whom i have seen dont have a unity in their family — they are hard and adamant and subborn

    I have now come out of that legalistic church — But i have received blessings through the Church too – by hearing sermons there — and my prayers for it to come out of legalism ( attaining perfection by framing up a set of rules and trying to adhere to them ).

    Take care — all of you —- God Be with you all ….


  264. Hi,
    Rachel varghese and susan george,
    I am eagrly looking for a church in this world were i can go with a guarantee to go to heaven. I hope you both might be attending in a perfect church. can you please……. tell where and what is that perfect church?

    John


  265. Dear Brother Moorthy,

    You stated on epositive and many negatives. There are still other very large negatives like terrible scriptural misinterpretations. It is God who took you out of that sel-glorifying group just like Israelites who were taken to Egypt were finally delivered from it.

    You stated one positive as follows:

    Positives—
    a. willingness to sacrifice materials things for God.

    My reply: TRUE SACRIFICE. WHAT IS IT?

    What is sacrifice? God has given us many resources like time, energy, wisdom, money etc. Sacrifice means spending our resources for the work in God’s kingdom.

    God wants us to sacrifice. How can we sacrifice? By spending our time and energy to do the following:

    1. Read and meditate the scriptures with a concordance Bible and a Chain reference. Psalms 1:2.
    2. Ask and wait on the Holy Spirit for a word of encouragement.
    3. Share that word of encouragement with those in suffering and pain.
    4. Gather the family members and neighbors and lead them in worship to God as per Acts 2:46.
    5. Teach them the scriptures as per Colossians 3:16.
    6. Give tithes to gospel workers and pastors in villages as per 1 Cor 9:13,14.

    The above is the sacrifice, which God wants. However, most Pentecostals have chosen the following sacrifice:
    1. Removing jewels.
    2. Wearing white saree and white shirts.
    3. Shaving the moustache.
    4. Depending on pastors like kids.
    5. Pleasing the pastors.

    Dear Brethren, God sees the heart and not your external display. Hence, instead of an external “show” of piety and righteousness like the Hindu sanyasis and Buddhist monks, show your godliness before God by “working” for the kingdom of God as per item 1 to item 6.

    Be a Pentecostal by the “internal” experience shown in preaching His gospel with miracles as per John 14:12 and not by the external display of white dress. Avoid showing off your religion, piety and righteousness to others. God hates that.

    Build the temple inside you rather than the buildings of denominations. Most Pentecostal pastors train the believers to give money while the believers remain as kids. Pastors do this by “feeding” them instead of “equipping” them.

    Seek to give the true sacrifices, which God desires and thus lay treasures in heaven.

    Dear John,

    1. You are the temple of the Holy Spirit. 1 Cor 3:16
    2. God does not live in temples built by hands Acts 17:24
    3. Guarantee to go to heaven is not given by any church but by the Blood of Christ. Maybe TPM has wrongly taught you that they guarantee heaven for you.

    There is just one church or one body of Christ in this world. God gave 5 types of ministries in this one body. Be trained by all the 5 types of ministries and not just by one type of ministry called the pastoral ministry.

    Look for true apostles as per 1 Cor 12:12 and not the vain TPM self-glorifying “talkers” and scriptural distorters.


  266. Hi Susan

    they spend time , energy , money and all — thinking they are spending it in Gods Presence and for him — whereas they are wasting it all in church and in observance of rules laid down by workers in the church …. without a second thought on the kingdom of God —- its all ‘pressing towards the mark of perfection’ – for them – and like blind horse — they dont realise a thing in the world —- and keep going in the direction in which their rider – the workers lead them

    — i am asking out of curiosity — were you a part of TPM — and assuming you are out of it now — can you share something about yourself ….

    regards
    Moorthy


  267. Jim,

    I told you I reserve the right to delete comments


  268. on February 3, 2009 at 11:23 am rachel varghese

    Dear Brother Moorthy,

    It is good that you are out of TPM. May God deliver the TPM believers similarly and bring them out of the false doctrines which was fabricated to create a TPM identity by Pas. Alwin (who was excommunicated from TPM) and promoted by the present lot zealously.

    Jim is a person who seems to know very poor information about TPM. I think maybe he has someone in his family or friends in the TPM ministry. That could explain his zeal for TPM’s false doctrines.

    To the statement, “In the most holy place, the Father longs to speak to the anointed people and share secrets” see Jim’s reply .

    Jim says, “Secrets?? Huh??” Thus His knowledge of the scriptures are also in question.

    Amos 3: 7 says. ” Surely the Sovereign LORD does nothing without revealing his plan to his servants the prophets.”

    Jim appears to know only the doctrinal misinterpretations of TPM workers which he hears on Sundays. If Jim longs to know about TPM’s confusions he could read “Deeper Truth” of TPM and get to know their lies firsthand.

    The problem with TPM is that they make a doctrine out of celibacy which ought to be personal choices.

    Let God deliver the church from TPM’s worker-glorification and doctrines fabricated for that purpose.

    I am really happy that the Moderator has asserted herself saying that she reserves the right to delete comments. May God bless the Moderator.


  269. susan,
    So you mean that no need to be a member of this wordly church and we can go to heaven. If not so….
    I have no idea that which church is best one, defanitely you might be attending in a perfect church, please can you tell me what is that church. Instead, just twisting the words for escaping from my question.
    John


  270. Jim,

    Don’t tell me I should be fair. You call me the devil, doubt my intentions, accuse of me of all ridiculous things….when you are so disrespectful, am I a fool to approve your comments, so that you can further insult me?
    When you have learnt politeness and etiquette your comments will be welcome.
    As long as you cannot respect the views of others, I will continue deleting your comments.


  271. Dear Brethren who visit this site,

    Jesus spoke words of love and compassion. He healed the sick, cast the demons and showed His love to the masses.

    He was surrounded by prostitutes and sinners and publicans. He loved them all and forgive them all.

    Jesus was called “friend of sinners”. Dear Brethren, I request you not to have the dirty attitude of Jim which totally does not reflect Jesus or His teachings regarding evangelism. Jim resembles more like another present day Pharisee. Everyone true christian should boycott Jim’s attitudes and statements. Jim’s statements only reinforce the truth that the TPM he supports is a group of more false doctrines.

    Jim alias Anil, is totally sold to the lies of TPM. He is the first person who should repent. Jim is just one sample reflection of the attitude towards truth that is inculcated in TPM.

    Secondly, John is asking me the address for a building church. John is asking the address for a denomination.

    Church is not a collection of TPM’s fabricated doctrines to glorify workers.

    Church is not a group of whitewashed self glorifiers full of vain pride. Church is not a group which shows sacrificial mentality externally in a white dressed religion.

    There is one church in this world. Denominations are not churches. They are groups in the one church of God. The One Church contains 5 types of ministries. The church is not bound by denominations. The Holy Spirit is the God-Pastor. Jesus is the God-groom.

    Church is one where all denominations are united. Unity is what Jesus prayed for in John chapter 17. Denominations like TPM which destroy this unity cannot be called a church at all.

    Church is a place where songs of all christians irrespective of denominations are sung.

    Church is a place where preachers irrespective of denominations are allowed to preach.

    Church is not to preach the false doctrines (like melchizedek calling for workers, celibate apostleship, self glorifying 144,000) of Pas. Alwin who was excommunicated by TPM.

    Church is not a place where the false doctrines are intertwined in the songs like as seen in TPM.

    On behalf of everyone in this blog, I would thank and appreciate the Moderator for her moderation. May God bless her.


  272. Susan,
    I am still asking you that, so you are not a member of any churches in this world. If i am not right please calrify me. If you don’t want tell that, which church you belong, tell openly that you are not interested to talk about your holy church. Please stop twisting your words.
    Its a simple question asking you again, are you a member of any wordly churches in this world? Please show me that holy church who unites all churches together.

    John


  273. Dear Rachel and others,

    I can fully understand your feelings. One thing I have learnt about these issues discussed is, “KEEP YOUR FOCUS ON JESUS.HE IS THE SAME YESTERDAY, TODAY AND FOREVER”.

    Men(Pastors) may come and men may go. But at the end when we stand before Jesus on the judgement day we are accountable for our lives. Man is prone to make,break rules.

    If we have a correct relationship with God, our hunger for the word of God will increase.
    We will look forward for that time again in our day where we can talk to him. Once this becomes our habit no person/teaching/pastor/medicine/jewels/earthly power can separate us from that love we have for God

    That love will overflow through us to all those who are searching for true happiness and joy.

    He will lead us with his wisdom and knowledge. But the battle will always be there. We are all humans and we are prone to mistakes. But only God’s mercy will take us through.

    We will have the heart to forgive others and accept everybody as Jesus did. Let us all aim for this.

    Love and Prayers.


  274. Jim alias Anil, is totally sold to the lies of TPM.

    What does this mean??


  275. Let God deliver the church from TPM’s worker-glorification and doctrines fabricated for that purpose.

    So why are you worried if God is in charge?? Please pray for them to the Lord that He may save tpm people rather than wasting your time here…


  276. Dear Pauline,

    Let us not only pray for the evil spirit of division working in TPM but also warn others. Let us speak the truth so that the false doctrines in TPM are exposed and destroyed.

    Anil is another name for Jim who tries to make people who speak the truth to abort their efforts.

    God will work but He works through His children what they can possibly do by the capacity that He has given.

    Just like the evil of casteism the evil of denominationalism promoted by TPM must be destroyed.

    Please read the following article circulated by email which is a very good one:

    BUILDING THE BRIDE CHURCH ? WHAT DOES IT MEAN?

    Ephesians 4:11 to 13 says, “It was he (God) who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers, to prepare God’s people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.”

    WHAT DOES THE ABOVE VERSE MEAN?

    1. Firstly, we can clearly see that God gave 5 types of ministries (apostles, prophets, evangelists etc) to the Universal Bride Church all over the world. However, unfortunately the title of “church” is wrongly applied to groups headed by pastors. Thus, the groups like TPM are just pastor- congregations. These pastor-groups do not have the other four types of ministers. They also speak ill of the other 4 types of ministers and create fear of them among the believers, thus preventing them from being ministered by the other four types of ministers. However, God commands that the word “Church” includes all five types of ministries.

    2. Secondly, the verse clearly teaches that the “universal bride church” as a whole can reach “maturity” only if all the individuals present inside the “universal bride church” reach unity in the faith and knowledge of the Son of God. This means that all Christians in the body of Christ must have the similar level of faith and knowledge about Jesus. Only then unity could possibly be achieved among them. Every one of us must look like a “little Jesus” so that the world sees millions of Jesus walking around.

    Like for example, a kindergarten student is not in unity with a junior college student. Only when the kindergarten student reaches the level of junior college both possess unity in knowledge. Thus we understand that the other four types of ministers were certainly given by God to enhance the unity among parts that leads to the maturity of the whole bride church.

    3. Thirdly, the verse teaches that for such a growth in knowledge of individuals, God gave the other four ministries as well. Hence, can you now understand the reason why millions of Christian individuals lack the growth in spiritual knowledge which God desires? Very simple. The reason is because the pastors prevent the believers from being ministered and trained by the other four types of ministers.

    4. Fourthly, one tenth of your salary is to be given to the “universal bride church” which includes the five types of ministers. Most pastors wrongly teach that tithes are meant only for pastors. Thus they are successfully destroying the unity of the “universal bride church” and the maturity that unity brings. Like for example, if the chemistry teacher takes all of the school fees from the student and does not allow paying the physics and mathematics teacher, will the student grow in knowledge? No.

    However, remember that these pastors will be judged by God very soon because the Bible says that judgement starts from the house of God. Unless these pastors stop deceiving the individuals they are going to pay for what they do to the bride church. Pastors are busy building their groups and denominations and not the “universal bride church”. Eventually the individuals remain “dependent” on these pastors which mean that the millions of lost are not reached with the gospel of Christ. Thus they appear to be responsible in sending millions to eternal fire. Dear brethren, if you cannot evangelize, at least motivate and train your fellow believer who has the hidden ability to evangelize. Remember, Jesus is at the door. Let’s hurry up to build and encourage individuals.

    REMEMBER, JESUS DIED TO TEAR THE VEIL AND TO MAKE YOU A PRIEST AND ALSO TO MAKE YOU ENTER INTO THE MOST HOLY PLACE WITH CONFIDENCE, WHERE, EVEN AARON THE HIGH PRIEST COULD ENTER ONLY ONCE A YEAR AND THAT TOO WITH A GREAT FEAR OF DEATH!! PASTORS HIDE THIS GREAT TRUTH OF “PRIESTHOOD OF A BELIEVER” FROM YOU.

    Let us not be quiet


  277. Sister

    Don’t loose your words againt God & God Saints, let lord open your eye of understand, to get closer to god.

    please for your shortcomings

    A beliver in christ
    – Joel


  278. A big hello Rachel,

    Please accept my compliments (from a lay co-blogwriter) towards your flair for conveying your thoughts exceptionally well. Your blog does truly stem from a high quality pen. It was by chance that I drove past your blog when this interesting exchange caught my attention and prompted me to pull over and cast in my two cents. I’ll try giving it a simple intellectual take than load it with a serious religious tone.

    On reading the chain, I thought I’d provide an opener which is a bit off context from your original post but might serve some wonderful people’s interests whose obsessed arguments were not reflective of grown-ups who can see the world more inclusively.

    For the record, I was born into a Protestant household, chose to be estranged from religion and was given to a spirit of super-inquisitive quizzing of anything that smelt or spelt God. This was further accentuated by my having read the Bible five times over among other literature. But, I had my tryst with religion and God in my early twenties and following relentless investigation of divine principles and values, chose to fellowship with the TPM as it was more fulsome to me. Now, that was a personal choice for many good reasons.

    Firstly, I would like to take exception to people reading other people’s (whether they be servants of God or co-believers) lives, to draw inferences about Jesus’ intended interpretation of Christian values. Well, we are the human-kind and have a calling to naturally err on the wrong side. Society for instance, has an entire spectrum of people modeling the behavioral extremes of goodness and badness. But, gray cells also teach us to train our sights on the positives, learn from them and leave the rest to themselves. That said, it is a pessimist’s stand (and also not supported mathematically) to make blanket conclusions about a large mass by tasting a pinch from some individual’s life. Our lives are too complex and unique to be judged by sampling another’s.

    The Bible also does talk of an erring Judas, a servant of God by calling, but one does identify oneself with “Jesus and the better eleven’ who role modeled a better life, rather with Judas, doesn’t he ? Similarly, a bad father need not necessary mean a screwed up family. A cruel Indian politician does not make a cruel Indian populace.

    In short, I’ve learnt to see beyond just people into the heart of principles to rather take sides with. To me, if there are sound principles that could wean one sustainably away from alcoholism, drugs, foul language, anger, lies, pilfering, swearing or any other understandably nasty attributes, this is the best. I do understand that there are transformational therapeutic alternatives to Pentecostal Christian principles, but, I know not any that matches up to it’s intensity and breadth in the end making one a man of better character. Do let me know if there is another, so that I give up on Christ and this Church for good, but I’m darn sure it will be a futile search.

    Now, speaking of some of your comments on TPM’s doctrines, here’s how I view it. Hope they are appreciated in the spirit of blogging.

    White attire :
    The Church does not ever narrow-mindedly condemn a person wearing non-white apparel as not “heavenly bound”. For Jesus’ sake, apologies on behalf of the Church, for preachers or co-believers who led you towards that interpretation. If they all did, I would not have been accepted during my fledgling days too. But, that is never the case. Jesus never professed that nor does the Bible. So, I give you that argument. But, the Church urges followers to keep their attire modest, tidy and perhaps different (that is white or close to anything that is bright) to make it a celebration of the beauty and holiness of ones’ inward life and an after-life. I’m glad the Church doesn’t ask one to be clothed in rags to prove to be different. And I don’t find anything repulsive with the color white either. From a world-view, it is associated with elitism and esteem as with politicians, with corporate life (as I do see every day as a business owner), trendy in the fashion circuit and a choice with the hip and young too. Well, I’m sorry about you having the misfortune of hearing “no white = no heaven” nonsense. But, the Church sure does discourage ostentatious, immodest and flashy apparel that distracts worshippers from their prime reason to be in Church but never condemns to hell. Dressing for the occasion is pure commonsense and is what even our parents would instruct us of, let alone Church leaders.

    Medicines :
    I do share your anguish on the departure of the kid. But, your point got me thinking. I do understand that treatment could have possibly saved the child from death, but you must know that there are thousands of children who have gone through that path and have lived to see this day or slip away into eternal bliss in their ripe old age. Playing with probability, there is perhaps maybe only a 1 in 10000 chance of an adversity of the magnitude of death happening. I think the field of medicine doesn’t do any better either to improve the chances of living, does it ? I have personally seen and heard enough of it to conclude that medicine screws up much-much worse than faith. I’ve seen people succumbing more to ill-administered medicine than to misdirected faith to make me feel more comfortable with the latter. Moreover, interestingly, men resort to God when medicine finally gives up on them. Well, yea, the Bible explains .. and so does the Church, that “perfect faith” even if it be death is essential to partake of the best in heaven. So, it depends on a person’s choice and liking. However, for argument’s sake, just because admission to Harvard Business School is tough doesn’t make the selection process inappropriate. Proverbially speaking, to get the best would mean that one’s got to lay down his best. That’s plain old logic which we find hard to accept when we apply it as a rule to hold up our spiritual standard against.

    But, whether one would savor the hardship and take that path is a personal choice, but, the Bible is written by God’s inspiration once and it will stand as the yardstick for the aspiring from the Church’s standpoint. I think, you and I can’t change that.

    I could write about women’s subordination & removal of ornaments in a later reply perhaps if it serves a good purpose. However, let’s promote one focused constructive discussion at a time to iron out points, if you wish to.

    To good times Rachel .. and happy writing !!


  279. Joel is a believer of TPM, that is for sure, more than he is a believer of Christ.

    Ranjith has not cast two cents but too much cents!!

    1. God likes modesty in your spirit and not the external one. God looks to the heart where TPM has the most false doctrines to “perch up” their false image!!

    2. Medicine screws up. If so why TPM workers die young?

    These Ranjiths and Jim’s and Robinsons, confuse between faith in God and our responsibilities.

    These guys do not know the medicines taken by the workers in their privacy and their faith in faith home made grandma potions.

    Ranjith should understand that God heals but treatment comes from doctors as Jesus said that a sick man needs a physician.

    God heals without the treatment of a doctor, ie, in a supernatural way, only when God plans to use the sickness leads a person to salvation or to a growth in faith. The rest of the times one needs to go physicians.

    Ranjith has forgotten that the thousands of doctors and nurses (people who screw up) in TPM are accepted in TPM and given communion. They screw up from monday to Friday and on sunday morning they are given communion in TPM.

    Ranjith has to think properly before he casts too much cents and not pretend that he is casting only two cents. Hope he reads the articles that exposes TPM’s false doctrines before he starts penning.

    Let the evil of TPM’s denominationalism and identity creation be destroyed. Let unity blossom which Jesus longed for in John chapter 17.


  280. Ranjith has forgotten that the thousands of doctors and nurses (people who screw up) in TPM are accepted in TPM and given communion. They screw up from monday to Friday and on sunday morning they are given communion in TPM.

    wht do you mean by ‘screwing-up’ ???

    Medicine screws up. If so why TPM workers die young?

    What is your probs if they die young.. why dont you make a police FIR, set up a CBI committe to enquire into the same, and approach the media??


  281. God likes modesty in your spirit and not the external one.

    Its because of this, why tpm workers wear white.. as the simplicity that is within, reflects out too…


  282. on February 7, 2009 at 10:14 am rachel varghese

    Doctors do not heal. Instead, they just provide treatment. TPM does not understand this basic difference.

    Because of TPM’s ignorance of this basic truth, they have ended up confusing the whole issue.

    Remember, the truth is that going to a doctor for treatment is not lack of faith. Instead going to a doctor for healing amounts to lack of faith.

    So instead of preventing people from going to doctors altogether, teach people to go to doctors for treatment and not for healing.

    For healing, a person has to set his / her relationship right before God.

    The problem with TPM is that they took their “identity” creating fabricated doctrines from Pas. Alwin and not from Raman Kutty to whom God gave the vision of TPM.

    Such false doctrines fabricated to create an identity for TPM are the following:

    1. False interpretation of divine Healing.
    2. Melchizedek-calling-for-workers.
    3. Celibate apostleship.
    4. TPM celibate workers belong to 144,000.
    5. Women and marriage defiles a person.
    6. Misinterpretation of Matthew 19:29.
    7. Calling TPM buildings as “faith homes”.
    8. Sunday school teachers and workers compulsorily prevented from wearing jewels whereas lately as a compromise other believers are allowed to wear jewels.

    Clarifications:

    1. Jim said, “Admit that you dont have that guts to do it…??”

    Reply: Jim appears to be a nerveless creature to admit the false doctrines let alone warn TPM workers.

    Hell fire is waiting for fabricators of false doctrines and perpertrators of those doctrines.

    2. Jim has forgotten that Bible tells God’s will and you do not have to be a PA to understand that. Hope Jim kneels down and admits TPM’s gross errors rather than rave and rant.

    3. Screw up was the word used by Ranjith. I was using his terms of describing the medicinal profession. Jim. Read passages properly before screaming.

    4. Ranjith said medicines screw up. So that is my counter question. Jim is very poor in understanding. Answer questions rather than yell. Yes Jim you can order Police FIR for those who kicked Pas. Philip leading to his death 3 months later.

    5. Modesty has to be revealed not by twisting doctrines and creating a false identity for TPM. Then showing it off in white is a false display of religion!!


  283. Ranjith said medicines screw up. So that is my counter question. Jim is very poor in understanding. Answer questions rather than yell. Yes Jim you can order Police FIR for those who kicked Pas. Philip leading to his death 3 months later.

    So you are playing counter strike here…well nice and Yell?? me?? can u really hear my voice in my posts (i mean just words), then my thanks to you.. ur insulting me to be powerful… like your southern rotten hero Rajanikant. I dont see the need of filing the FIR, if you want why dont you file an FIR??? so GO and file the FIR rather than showing off your guts by typing away non-sense... Thank you for that remark on me. May God bless you a hundred times more for the same !!!


  284. Jim appears to be a nerveless creature to admit the false doctrines let alone warn TPM workers. Hope Jim kneels down and admits TPM’s gross errors rather than rave and rant.

    OK.. Even I do tht… NOW WHAT?? HOW HAVE YOU BENEFITTED FROM MY ACTION??

    1)IS IT LIKE THE WHOLE PURPOSE OF YOUR LIFE IS EXPOSING TPM’S DOCTRNAL MISINTERPRETATIONS AND NOTHING ELSE??

    2)DO YOU KNW THAT PEOPLE READ YOUR POSTS AND SMILE MAKING FUN OF YOU UNLESS THEY ARE PERSONALITIES LIKE YOU??

    3)DO YOU KNOW AND REALLISE THAT YOUR POSTS ARE CONTRIBUTING A BIG ZERO VALUE TO THE SOCIETY??


  285. on February 7, 2009 at 11:11 am rachel varghese

    It was you who raised the issue of FIR not me. So you must be really interested to file an FIR against the Phillip killers. So please go ahead if you are really concerned about FIT’s.

    I am not typing nonsense. Your fingers do!! First you threaten with hell fire and then follow up with hundred times blessing!!

    Remember, hell fire is waiting for those who promote false doctrines and those who defend them and not for those who proclaim the truth.

    Very soon the disunity of the body of Christ promoted by TPM will be pulled down by God by His power and by His proclamation through His children.


  286. on February 7, 2009 at 11:17 am rachel varghese

    Hello Jim,

    1. Jim’s whole purpose in life is to defend the TPM’s false doctrines?

    2. Yes people praised you when you called doctors as “witches”.

    They also smiled when they saw through your earlier plot to divert the attention from the purpose of the blog site.

    3. Do you think your posts are contributing?

    The posts of those speak the truth contribute better than those who promote and defend false doctrines.

    4. It looks like you are on a serious diet of walnuts. Good experience!!


  287. Hi

    Ranjith just saw ur comment
    Will revert back to you


  288. Dear Brethren,

    The following fact was very interesting to hear:

    “It is a well known fact that the TPM Founder Pas. Raman Kutty had made a committment only to live in rental houses.

    Because they considered themseelves as “strangers and pilgrims” in this world.

    Due to this committment the house churches of TPM were called as “faith homes”.

    However, TPM has violated that committment of living in rental houses and have thus bought lands worth several crores of rupees and also built buildings using the tithes money of people.

    The strange thing is that even after violating the Founder’s committment the present day workers still call their buildings as “faith homes”!!

    The TPM believers who are ignorant of the above fact are deceived as they do not know the background of the name “faith home”.

    Remember, TPM’s talk of faith has lost its meaning with reference to the Founder Pas. Raman Kutty’s committment!!


  289. May God Save you


  290. Hey Rachel,

    Kudos to you for writing this blog…hats off to you..Although I did not understand throughly your blog, I feel the same way you do…Grew up in such a religion bound household, I believe THAT Kerala Pentecostal people are misinterpreting the BIBLE AND Who God really is…He is the ultimate expression of love, and as I read the comments on your blog, it sadens me how people are so quick to judge you…….I think it is sad that the indian culture is so focused in out ward appearance. The bible says God looks at the heart and man looks at the outer appearance…But I believe we have came to an era that God will raise women up and the stima about female prechers will come to an end…I believe that, and I know that God will raise me up to be a preacher and I am a SOUTH INDIAN KERALA Women..I hope that you still believe in God and he is a loving God that put you on this earth for a purpose, and the passion he has instilled in you, may that be used for his kingdom purposes….Anyways, God bless you and I am not going to say I will pray for you like all the hypocrites have said in other comments but I will remember you and Good for you that you took a stand…People might see you as the devil but there are always going to be “nah sayers” know wut I mean?

    Take care,

    ~~Betz~~


  291. Hi Ranjith,
    Was pleasantly surprised to read your comments. I am wannabe-writer so your words are very encouraging.
    We seem to share many similarities – background, orientation, etc.
    But, I had my tryst with religion and God in my early twenties and following relentless investigation of divine principles and values, chose to fellowship with the TPM as it was more fulsome to me. Now, that was a personal choice for many good reasons.
    Firstly, I would like to take exception to people reading other people’s (whether they be servants of God or co-believers) lives, to draw inferences about Jesus’ intended interpretation of Christian values. Well, we are the human-kind and have a calling to naturally err on the wrong side. Society for instance, has an entire spectrum of people modeling the behavioral extremes of goodness and badness. But, gray cells also teach us to train our sights on the positives, learn from them and leave the rest to themselves. That said, it is a pessimist’s stand (and also not supported mathematically) to make blanket conclusions about a large mass by tasting a pinch from some individual’s life. Our lives are too complex and unique to be judged by sampling another’s.
    Am I glad you wrote this. I also feel your religious convictions are your personal choices – not some thing with which you use as the standard to judge others. When people are religious I am happy if whatever they believe in comforts them. I have been trying to tell Jim from the beginning that me being an atheist or Jim being TPM or Susan being anti-TPM is a matter of personal choice or conviction…and we should give others the space to follow their convictions.
    The Bible also does talk of an erring Judas, a servant of God by calling, but one does identify oneself with “Jesus and the better eleven’ who role modeled a better life, rather with Judas, doesn’t he ? Similarly, a bad father need not necessary mean a screwed up family. A cruel Indian politician does not make a cruel Indian populace.
    In short, I’ve learnt to see beyond just people into the heart of principles to rather take sides with. To me, if there are sound principles that could wean one sustainably away from alcoholism, drugs, foul language, anger, lies, pilfering, swearing or any other understandably nasty attributes, this is the best.
    I do understand that there are transformational therapeutic alternatives to Pentecostal Christian principles, but, I know not any that matches up to it’s intensity and breadth in the end making one a man of better character. Do let me know if there is another, so that I give up on Christ and this Church for good, but I’m darn sure it will be a futile search.

    Your argument is that you need religion if people need to be moral – you associate morality with not drinking, smoking, etc. When you say foul language, anger are characteristics of those immoral – then Christians seem to be the most immoral of all….because as far as I know they seem to be engaged in the most amount of name calling.
    And again I feel it is better to be a non-Christian and drink, smoke or do drugs – than be a Christian like George W Bush or Tony Blair.
    Most Christians will be talking about peace and forgiveness but will support Israel’s atrocities against Palestine and have the smug belief that all “Hindus and Muslims are evil.”
    For instance, many of my friend do not believe in God, but they work so hard for social upliftment and have done more for the under-privileged than some of my Christian friends.
    White attire :
    The Church does not ever narrow-mindedly condemn a person wearing non-white apparel as not “heavenly bound”. For Jesus’ sake, apologies on behalf of the Church, for preachers or co-believers who led you towards that interpretation. If they all did, I would not have been accepted during my fledgling days too. But, that is never the case. Jesus never professed that nor does the Bible. So, I give you that argument. But, the Church urges followers to keep their attire modest, tidy and perhaps different (that is white or close to anything that is bright) to make it a celebration of the beauty and holiness of ones’ inward life and an after-life. I’m glad the Church doesn’t ask one to be clothed in rags to prove to be different. And I don’t find anything repulsive with the color white either. From a world-view, it is associated with elitism and esteem as with politicians, with corporate life (as I do see every day as a business owner), trendy in the fashion circuit and a choice with the hip and young too. Well, I’m sorry about you having the misfortune of hearing “no white = no heaven” nonsense. But, the Church sure does discourage ostentatious, immodest and flashy apparel that distracts worshippers from their prime reason to be in Church but never condemns to hell. Dressing for the occasion is pure commonsense and is what even our parents would instruct us of, let alone Church leaders.

    I think there is a higher probability that you are right (due to your close association with the church) and I am wrong. If so I am happy that there is no discrimination based on one’s dress code.
    Medicines :
    I do share your anguish on the departure of the kid. But, your point got me thinking. I do understand that treatment could have possibly saved the child from death, but you must know that there are thousands of children who have gone through that path and have lived to see this day or slip away into eternal bliss in their ripe old age. Playing with probability, there is perhaps maybe only a 1 in 10000 chance of an adversity of the magnitude of death happening. I think the field of medicine doesn’t do any better either to improve the chances of living, does it ? I have personally seen and heard enough of it to conclude that medicine screws up much-much worse than faith. I’ve seen people succumbing more to ill-administered medicine than to misdirected faith to make me feel more comfortable with the latter. Moreover, interestingly, men resort to God when medicine finally gives up on them. Well, yea, the Bible explains .. and so does the Church, that “perfect faith” even if it be death is essential to partake of the best in heaven. So, it depends on a person’s choice and liking. However, for argument’s sake, just because admission to Harvard Business School is tough doesn’t make the selection process inappropriate. Proverbially speaking, to get the best would mean that one’s got to lay down his best. That’s plain old logic which we find hard to accept when we apply it as a rule to hold up our spiritual standard against.
    But, whether one would savor the hardship and take that path is a personal choice, but, the Bible is written by God’s inspiration once and it will stand as the yardstick for the aspiring from the Church’s standpoint. I think, you and I can’t change that.
    Here again, I find nothing to dispute in your view. You hold that taking medicines/ faith healing is a personal choice. I also believe it’s the same. What I can’t abide is people preaching it from the pulpit and making it mandatory for all church members.

    Taking medicines or not taking medicines is a personal choice. But imposing your choice on a minor (your child/ward) is not right. Because the child/minor might want to live.
    I could write about women’s subordination & removal of ornaments in a later reply perhaps if it serves a good purpose. However, let’s promote one focused constructive discussion at a time to iron out points, if you wish to.
    To good times Rachel .. and happy writing !!

    Thanks Ranjith, loved hearing from you.


  292. Hi Betsy,
    Well, I am also a great admirer of Christ. I do love the way he stood up against the pharisees and many of the archaic practises of those times. I also found he never discriminated between the Jew and the Gentile or the women and the men…he was always kind, loving and wise.
    I also wish that there were more women preachers in church because I don’t think God would discriminate based on one’s gender. I hope you are able to preach the gospel in your home town and help usher in a more Christ-oriented Christianity. You might want to read this article.
    Regards,
    Rachel


  293. Dear Rachel,

    Glad to read that you like Christ and you admire Him greatly.
    I undertand that though you like Christ, the way so called christians behave is what has made you denounce your religion and made you an atheist.

    Just because of a handful of bad examples before you doesn’t mean that all are bad. Even today I am
    touched by the generosity and character of a few christian friends. I studied/researched the bible and couldn’t
    stop loving it.

    Life is more important than ministry or church or anything. I have seen people come to christ by just
    drawn to his teachings and miracles happening in their lives which science cannot explain.

    Please don’t think if you accept Christ as your God you will be branded as one among the other bad
    examples you come across. In Christ’s sight everyone is unique and special. You are special too.
    All the best !


  294. However, TPM has violated that committment of living in rental houses and have thus bought lands worth several crores of rupees and also built buildings using the tithes money of people

    You are mistaken David, its not ‘rupees’ but ‘KD (Kuwaitee Dinar)’….

    TPM violated the commitment…?? So what can you do about it ?? Whats your issue…?? Go file an FIR…

    You jealous?? You are burning and it stinks…


  295. I also wish that there were more women preachers in church because I don’t think God would discriminate based on one’s gender. I hope you are able to preach the gospel in your home town and help usher in a more Christ-oriented Christianity.

    Rachel, C… You dont know who you are… You are confused with your own identity I blive. I mean… to say that , “God would not discriminate based on one’s gender…. and blah blah”, you are measuring God to be something existing.

    And I also can see that the whole agenda of this blog is to malign the tpm people, its teachings and workers and serves nothing good for the society.

    And even if theres nothing so nasty about my posts, you are continuing to delete my posts as ur true intentions are being exposed.


  296. And again I feel it is better to be a non-Christian and drink, smoke or do drugs – than be a Christian like George W Bush or Tony Blair.

    you called Bush to be a christian??? Do you know that he a devil-worshiper and that he belongs to a secret society??

    http://www.theresistancemanifesto.com/

    He hides behind the christian faith so that he can fool American public.


  297. Some TPM people like Jim try to divert the attention of people by falsely accusing those who speak the truth, which exposes the misinterpretations of TPM. They are unable to bear and repent when TPM misinterpretations are exposed.

    They try to call it criticizing when they forgot their criticism of those who expose the truth.

    Secondly, they try to divert attention by claiming that those who expose TPM do not belong to TPM and that they belong to other churches. Readers should recognize their trick, which they adopt to stop those who expose the truth.

    People like these in TPM among the Israelites scorned at the prophets of Israel who spoke the truth. Such scorners exhibit an unwillingness to repent or let others be delivered from the false doctrines of TPM, which self-glorify the workers.

    Just remember, in a short while God along with the proclamation of his children will pull down the disunity causing false doctrines in TPM.

    Also, remember, that God will pull down all the worker-glorifying doctrines in TPM, which hinders believers from receiving the prophetic calling (which God had ordained for all believers in the end times).

    Hence, be part of God and not a part of the TPM’s mentality who fabricate identity creating and self-glorifying doctrines.


  298. It was you who raised the issue of FIR not me. So you must be really interested to file an FIR against the Phillip killers. So please go ahead if you are really concerned about FIT’s.

    If I had to file an FIR, I wud have never waited for your advice.. I do what I think, but you type and murmer about what you think rather than taking action… I wonder if you have a high BP or hyper-tension issues.


  299. Sis Rachel Varghese, this is for you, I hope you got a mail from crg regarding this.

    Romans:1:21: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

    Romans:1:22: Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

    In my opinion these are category of people who think they know everything and then dont give glory to God, but to the knowledge or information that they have gained, which they think makes them inherit the kingdom of God. The ultimate result of the same is mentioned in Romans 1:22.


  300. Romans:1:21: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

    Romans:1:22: Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

    David Raj bhai, the above verses are for you tooo… they are Bible. Open up and read if you are even a Christian and examine yourself and stop blabbering about what tpm and other denominations are into by labeling it as the so called “exposing the truth”


  301. Some TPM people like Jim try to divert the attention of people by falsely accusing those who speak the truth, which exposes the misinterpretations of TPM. They are unable to bear and repent when TPM misinterpretations are exposed.

    David Raj Bhai, Even David of old-testament comitted sins but yet mercy of God was upon him to make him worthy of being called as a saint. So is His mercy upon you too…

    Some tpm people like Jim are diverting the diverted attention of diverted people like you to God, whose whole body, soul, and spirit is already diverted to accusing and blaming tpm people, its workers and believers and whose whole life is dedicated to name calling and finger-pointing of those who left everything to consecrate thier life in the Lod’s ministry. Anna… Its not that easy as you think or accuse by words. Its an act… do it or leave it. You are not even worthy to even imagine about it. And you are talking about it??


  302. Was pleasantly surprised to read your comments. I am wannabe-writer so your words are very encouraging.

    Rachel Chitra, we need more of soothing and encouraging posts than that which promotes strife and hatred among the bretheren… Time for the change, time for you to think upon the same.


  303. on February 9, 2009 at 9:00 am rachel varghese

    Jim,

    Jim said, “Romans:1:21: and Romans:1:22

    In my opinion these are category of people who think they know everything and then dont give glory to God, but to the knowledge or information that they have gained, which they think makes them inherit the kingdom of God. The ultimate result of the same is mentioned in Romans 1:22.”

    The above opinion most rightly applies to Jim and CRG who defend the false doctrines of TPM and to TPM who fabricate false doctrines to self glorify themselves.

    First Jim seems to be on a diet of walnuts and now he has high BP too!!

    Jim’s latest strategy is to accuse “truth speaking” as accusing because truth sounds bitter to fabricators and defenders of false doctrines.

    The blood of Pas. Philip cries out against the TPM Cains. Now these cains and his supporters pretend as if nothing has happened.


  304. In my opinion these are category of people who think they know everything and then dont give glory to God, but to the knowledge or information that they have gained, which they think makes them inherit the kingdom of God.

    Rachel, YOUR OPINION !!!!! ???? Its your opinion, that is the worst force which is driving you all this time to think and play the blame-games. which we all understand is the result of what… But here we are talking about the reallity…

    Jim’s latest strategy is to accuse “truth speaking” as accusing because truth sounds bitter to fabricators and defenders of false doctrines.

    This is not some strategy but the reallity which you would like to label it as some strategy.

    We the tpm church-goers are Believers in Christ and we are strong in our doctrines and teaching of the Christ brought to us by our own revelations and saint’s and no man can mar us or shake us from our faith in Christ.

    Lord tells me through Gal 1:8, 9

    8)But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

    9)As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

    Now since YOU dont goto church, you cant expect to push down your so called OPINIONS or ONIONS on other church-goers.

    Matth 24:35 says: The Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. And so as long as Gal 1:8,9 is with me, I shall not be shaken of people like you who are contributing to the negative cause of spreading strife and hatred.


  305. Rachel Varghese,

    If you have opinions you can only express it. You cannot push it down or impose it on others by force. You must understand this.

    And Rachel Chitra,

    This blog as you say, if it is meant for expressing opinions or views, it should be for the same and not for something which Rachel Varghese is into (blaming, accusing, maligning, and spreading hatred and strife among the christian brethren)

    But then if your heart says that somthing which is going on in this blog is wonderful, and if your are enjoying it, then what shall I say??? Its all you blog. Go on… but then also remember that this blog-section of yours would be discussed by everyone in the future as a place of blame-games against tpm and people (even those who are not of tpm, catholics, non-church-goers and gentiles) will hate it more and more giving rise to more hatred in the society.

    Save your blog from becoming a big pot of overcooked stinking stuff.


  306. on February 9, 2009 at 10:29 am rachel varghese

    We do not preach another gospel. It is you and your TPM which preaches additional doctrines to the gospel created by your spiritual father Pas. Alwin.

    It seems the gospel is not sufficient for you people. You want glory to celibate workers.

    You want identity for TPM causing disunity in the body of Christ.

    Such additions will be accursed. Such additions by your founder Pas. Alwin are not reality but lies.

    The blood of Pas. Philip cries out against the TPM Cains. Now these cains and his supporters pretend as if nothing has happened.


  307. Such additions will be accursed. Such additions by your founder Pas. Alwin are not reality but lies.

    Founder is Alwyn?? What do you mean??

    We do not preach another gospel.

    Who “we”.. its just you and a handful of non-church-goers just like you..

    The blood of Pas. Philip cries out against the TPM Cains

    Who are you to judge who are all “Abel” and who are all “cains”?.. I told you if thats ur opinions, mention it as “In my opinion……..blah blah blah”…

    You cannot authoritatively impose your opinions on others. This trick of yours are not going to work for any good means.


  308. on February 9, 2009 at 2:35 pm rachel varghese

    1. All the following confusions were fabricated by Pas. Alwin De Alwis who was with Pas. Raman Kutty.

    1. False interpretation of divine Healing.
    2. Melchizedek-calling-for-workers.
    3. Celibate apostleship.
    4. TPM celibate workers belong to 144,000.
    5. Women and marriage defiles a person.
    6. Misinterpretation of Matthew 19:29.
    7. Calling TPM buildings as “faith homes”.
    8. Sunday school teachers and workers compulsorily prevented from wearing jewels whereas lately as a compromise other believers are allowed to wear jewels.

    Finally he was excommunicated from TPM.

    Now TPM boasts about and promotes the same doctrines founded by that excommunicated Pastor.

    The problem Jim is a novice just like the thousands of other TPM believers and that is the reason for them to exhibit a zeal for TPM which lacks knowledge.

    2. For the brainwashed Jim, church means the four walled TPM building. You must sympathise with Jim!!

    He finds it difficult to understand that God does not live in temples built by human hands. Jim should read Acts 17:24.

    For people like Jim, Irumbuliyur convention visit is like devotees going for pilgrimage. Ofcourse these spiritual kids need pastors to suckle.

    3. TPM pastors in kerala General body meeting killed Pas. Philip because he changed the name of CPM to TPM without consulting pastors from Kerala.

    Cain killed Abel. Now whether TPM is cain or Philip was Cain, people know. At least one must be cain.

    This fact is known by the thousands of TPM believers. No imposition needed!!

    Jim grow up.


  309. Hi susan,
    Do you have backbone to tell that you belongs this or that church. Why are you keeping queit about my question.
    John


  310. Pauline,

    Just saw your comments. Will get back to you as soon as possible.
    Cheers!


  311. This fact is known by the thousands of TPM believers. No imposition needed!! Jim grow up.

    If thousands of tpm believers knew this they wud have been murmuring and complaining just like you… The thing is, they have the wisdom, and they are following how God has been leading them…

    The problem Jim is a novice just like the thousands of other TPM believers and that is the reason for them to exhibit a zeal for TPM which lacks knowledge. 2. For the brainwashed Jim, church means the four walled TPM building. You must sympathise with Jim!! He finds it difficult to understand that God does not live in temples built by human hands. Jim should read Acts 17:24. For people like Jim, Irumbuliyur convention visit is like devotees going for pilgrimage. Ofcourse these spiritual kids need pastors to suckle.

    Now stop this name-callings.. it doesnt make you appear smart from any angle.

    Cain killed Abel. Now whether TPM is cain or Philip was Cain, people know. At least one must be cain.

    your opinions must be firm.. dont keep changing your opinions… NOW what do you mean at least one MUST be Cain?? God looked at Abel and had mercy on him. GOd looked for Cain to be judged… SO you are here acting as GOD to look for Cain??? Who are you to judge or decide whos who???

    Stick on to your opinion about which even you are not firm…

    And John brother… about the backbone??? She doesnt have backbone as well as even the nerve to tell that because she doesnt go to church.. Now just because some PEOPLE dont go to church, THEY cant impose their insane opinions on other church-goers…

    Rachel Varghese…. I just remembered one good old Christian saying Just For You….

    “If you can’t sleep, don’t count sheep. Talk to the Shepherd.”

    Go thru 2 Timothy 3:13,14

    13)But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.

    14) But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have become convinced of, because you know those from whom you learned it,

    Read Romans 16: 17,18

    13) “Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

    14) For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.”

    Read Gal 1:8, 9

    8)But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
    9)As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

    The above is not from me but by the Holy words of God.

    Remember that the Word of God is compared to the two-edged sword. If you can take out verses from Bible to suit your own personality, there are thousands of them that is against it. Read the whole Bible carefully…

    Lets be strong and not be shaken…. and prepare ouselves for the coming of our Lord. May the good Lord strengthen all of us to fly away like an eagle when He comes in His glory.


  312. God sends people like Rachel as, “Go! I am sending you out like lambs among wolves.”

    Wolves who comes in Lamb’s clothing twisting the scriptures to stop the voice from God. This is what they did to the prophets. They scorned the prophets and killed them like they did Pas. Philip.

    Satan works forociously to stop the voice of warning and to keep the flock under enslavement. Imaging what TPM did to Pas. Philip. That same spirit is working even against the prophets.

    Speak the truth Rachel. God’s protection will be upon you as He was with the prophets.

    Luke 11: 49Because of this, God in his wisdom said, ‘I will send them (TPM) prophets and apostles, some of whom they will kill (Pas. Philip) and others they will persecute (Pas. Benjamin).’ 50Therefore this generation will be held responsible for the blood of all the prophets that has been shed since the beginning of the world, 51from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, who was killed between the altar and the sanctuary. Yes, I tell you, this generation will be held responsible for it all.


  313. Susan,

    I really appreciate your concern for me and your kindness. As my friend I know you would want to defend me.
    But I think your statements are a little off the mark.

    God sends people like Rachel as, “Go! I am sending you out like lambs among wolves.”

    Wolves who comes in Lamb’s clothing twisting the scriptures to stop the voice from God. This is what they did to the prophets. They scorned the prophets and killed them like they did Pas. Philip.

    In this statement, you seem to forget I’m an atheist. Many Christians feel as an atheist I have no right to even quote the Bible. So when you liken my actions to the prophets in the Bible, Christians might give less credence to the validity of your other arguments.
    As it is people are accusing me of being the devil, misquoting the scriptures. If you feel what I say is right, please support my argument.
    But backing what you feel about me with the scriptures might only antagnoise Christians.
    And again as far as most Christians are concerned – Jim is ok (no matter how badly he treats anyone) because he’s a Christian – but I am bad because I am an atheist.
    So supporting me – might not be the best thing to do – if fighting against the doctrinal imperfections of the TPM is your objective.

    Your friend,
    Rachel


  314. Rachel Chitra,

    Notice there.. you are cross-lining most of the verses from Bible and not my words….

    And again as far as most Christians are concerned – Jim is ok (no matter how badly he treats anyone) because he’s a Christian – but I am bad because I am an atheist.

    Jim is ok because hes a Christian and has got the option of being getting condemned or forgiven…. But as for an athiest, they are already defined in Ps 14:1, though thier end wud be eternal hell-fire if they dont repent.

    Now plz dont say I’m condemning you to hell-fire or “how dare you”… because it doent matter to you as IT DOESNT EXIST.

    So supporting me – might not be the best thing to do

    She has to support you to get her abusive posts approved from you and you are ok with it since you are in the nutral stand and no one is accusing you. Once I started revealing the the true purpose of this blog, you started deleting my posts.


  315. Because you enjoy others getting insulted and abused in ur blog but cant withstand the accuse on you.


  316. Jim,

    You can post anything you want as long as its not hate mail. And I think I told you that earlier. Now that you have stopped calling others “fools” and idiots” you will notice some of your comments don’t get deleted.


  317. Jim,

    And as far as crossing out lines is concerned. The Bible even talks about sodomy, incest, prostitution, ….but I will not permit you to quote such verses here.
    Your friend Ace did the same thing. Because he didn’t like some commenters, he started calling them prostitutes by quoting Bible verses.
    So, Sorry. Quoting Bible verses doesn’t mean you get let off for being offensive.


  318. Why I Am Offended When Told I Am Going To Hell

    As an atheist I get told “You are going to Hell” quite often, whether it be from a person I know or in an anonymous email through this blog. I get quite offended by this which many might consider odd seeing as I believe that “Hell” doesn’t exist. My reasoning for my offense is quite simple though, and I suspect many atheists feel the same way about things like this.

    If we go by most religious beliefs, Hell is a place where sinners are sent if they do not repent. A lot of religions believe that a murderer can get into Heaven if they repent their sins before they die, or sacrifice themselves to save another. In short, there are quite a few “get out clauses” that one can consider. My “crime” though, isn’t murder, nor is it rape or thieving. An atheist’s crime is simply thinking, or reasoning. So by this definition, I am offended that someone would believe that a murderer, rapist, or thief who has said they are sorry for their crimes would get into Heaven, whilst a person who has done nothing but think would go to Hell.

    Conversely, if we take the religious belief that Hell is a place that all sinners go to regardless of whether they repent or not, I am still offended. It seems that whilst a god may or may not have given us free will (depending on what you believe), we do have it. Therefore it seems ever so slightly unfair that a person should be sent to Hell for using a mental ability that doesn’t cause harm to anyone else. By this definition, I am offended that anyone (gods included) would consider murder an equal crime to using free will.

    As I have said, I do not believe Hell exists, but it can be assumed that anyone telling me I am “going to Hell” believes that it does. Therefore if they believe that I am going to Hell, they must also believe that I deserve it, since their beliefs are based on religion which claims to be the truth, and to question the truth would be a crime equal to my own. By this definition, I am offended that someone would believe that I actually deserve such a punishment for using my own questioning abilities.

    Continuing this line of argument, we get to the believers who say that God doesn’t want us to go to Hell because he loves us. They claim that Hell is only for those who don’t repent, but this entire argument is based on their own questioning of scripture. To appear more neutral in the eyes of an ever-growing secular world, they have questioned their own interpretation of scripture, resulting in the conclusion that a loving God would rather have people in Heaven that Hell, and that some scripture shouldn’t be taken literally. The only difference between us is that I have concluded that the scripture is hypocritical, and they have concluded that the original interpretation is wrong. By this definition, I am offended that others would claim their own questioning isn’t a crime whilst my own is, based solely on the outcome of said questioning.

    There are a lot of reasons why atheists should be offended when told they are hell-bound. Ist doesn’t matter if you personally don’t believe in the place, but that someone does and thinks that blind faith is the only way to get there. It’s not like atheists hate the idea of god, or that if faced with such a being after death would give him the finger. Surely any being who created free will would be more impressed by an honest skeptic than an unquestioning dogmatist?


  319. Dear Moderator,

    Just beware of Jim’s provocations. He again tries to shift the discussion from the topic of this blog.

    Jim would abuse, then quote scriptures wrongly, then defend zealously the false doctrines of TPM lacking knowledge, then talk about theology without any knowledge of it.

    His problem is that he does not understand the whole spectrum of TPM’s false doctrines nor does he have any knowledge of the TPM’s history.

    His only agenda is defend TPM at all costs. He has not quoted any single verse to counter when I exposed the false doctrines of TPM. Please take note of that.

    Neither did any of the TPM zealots like ace or Robinson. All they did was not counter scripturally but abuse and accuse left and right.

    People like these, who lack knowledge or love, shed the blood of Pas. Phillip and persecuted pas. Benjamin and many others.

    God is sure going to act against such. Watch and see. May God bless you for your efforts.


  320. Susan,

    You maybe right and thank you so much for the kind words & the mail.
    The point I was trying to make was…..most Christians think atheists are bad.. So ….


  321. He has not quoted any single verse to counter when I exposed the false doctrines of TPM. Please take note of that

    Do you really think I’m here to play counter-blaming-games?? ur then mistaken… and please note of that?? So instead of God being the judge, u’ve already appointed Rachel-the-athiest as the supreme judge….

    Just beware of Jim’s provocations. He again tries to shift the discussion from the topic of this blog.

    Topic of this blog is to condemn and abuse tpm people and Rachel Chitra likes it very much.. She enjoys it as shes in the neutral stand.

    His problem is that he does not understand the whole spectrum of TPM’s false doctrines nor does he have any knowledge of the TPM’s history.

    Spectrum?? I told you that like every church, even tpm might be having its own shortcomings… I always say that, You tell me ur church’s name and no doubt worms will come out of it. I never said NO to wht u say. Now why should I have knowledge about tpm and its history wen my God is there for me to look upon?? or how will it help me if I learn the history of tpm??? I mean, how is it helping you in getting the blessings of Lord?? You are more like a jehadi among Muslims.

    His only agenda is defend TPM at all costs.

    My agenda is to try and open ur closed eyes and ears so that you all may reallise that we are all called for being the priests and this kind of abusive posts will add more and more strife than doing any good to the society or people as a whole. You are not even worthy to talk bout my agenda dear.

    All they did was not counter scripturally but abuse and accuse left and right.

    Just left and right only??? what about Center?? you are doing that too… how do u want me to counter spiritually??

    Take 2 Timothy 3:13,14 and read it. It applies to you and to me too..

    13)But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.

    14) But as for you, continue in what you have learnt and have become convinced of, because you know those from whom you learned it,

    Read Romans 16: 17,18 It applies to you and to me too..

    13) “Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

    WHY DONT YOU AVOID THEM?? WHY DONT YOU CONTINUE IN WHAT YOU HAVE LEARNT AND HAVE BECOME CONVINCED OF???

    most Christians think atheists are bad..

    Most of the Christians?? 100% of the Christians think the same and beyond that as per mentioned in Ps 14:1 and more than thinking bad, they feel pity on them as I do for Rachel Chitra. Indeed I feel so very pity for you Rachel Chitra… And if Susan doesnt think like that, she disrespects the Word of God and I dont know by what name should I call her.

    God is sure going to act against such. Watch and see. May God bless you for your efforts.

    Yes… watch and see… May God bless you and prepare you for His coming.

    And yes.. God will never bless her as long as she is an athiest. Its a logic…. dont forget that.


  322. Susan,

    You maybe more than right…..I suddenly realised, every time Jim can’t handle questions about TPM, he starts talking about atheism.
    When I counter him on atheism and the questions get too hot to handle…he again goes back to abusing everyone who is anti-TPM.
    Maybe it is a diversionary tactic…..

    Jim’s Course of action: Talk about TPM! Can’t defend their negative actions? Next start hitting out at atheists! Can’t answer the questions raised by atheists? Go back to hitting out at other Christians.

    Maybe I should just stop replying to Jim, then he will have to address only the issues raised by Christians.


  323. Pauline,

    I appreciate your concern for me. I like Christ and still find his teachings revolutionary.
    But it is not bad experiences in the church that made me become an atheist.
    For me science or proof of existence became the sole deciding factor.


  324. And again maybe we shouldn’t get too annoyed with Jim. I checked out his blog..

    http://www.guitarstrums.blogspot.com/

    He looks like he’s in his early 20s….so maybe he’s still in the process of forming his views.
    I only wish he didn’t get so rigid and dogmatic about them.

    Jim,

    In your comments I can feel the displeasure and anger you have against anyone who dares comment about your “beloved church.”
    But don’t hate anyone just because of their views.
    You might learn a lot from us and we might also learn a lot from you.
    I read your blog and found it quite interesting.
    I was also a God-fearing Christian girl once. So its not like I can’t appreciate what you have written in your blog.
    If you could tone down your language towards us and realised you were hurting us with your “harsh comments” we could really engage in meaningful debate.
    But even as I write this I know your reply to this will only be sarcastic.
    This comment was to say: A little kindness and a little thoughtfulness will go a long way.


  325. Hey Rachel…

    I was never a part of countering or hitting-outs… I just tried adding some sense to your nonsense concept of athiesm. Even Susan knows athiesm is a non-sense concept, or you may ask her. Let her express what she feels about athiesm. Infact every one knows it except for them.

    Jim’s Course of action: Talk about TPM! Can’t defend their negative actions?

    So you mean I am talking about TPM and the source of topic is me??.. I’m just diverting all of these people’s attention towards God and not tpm or athiesm… because theres no meaning of athiesm and secondly, bragging about tpm’ credentials or negativity isnt going to take you to heaven.

    Maybe I should just stop replying to Jim, then he will have to address only the issues raised by Christians.

    May be?? Sure.. be sure of it.. cos u cant handle the reality that the main pupose of this blog is to condemn the tpm people and you are helping this cause by joining hands with some church-crtics and who are not even church-goers.

    And that I cant handle, I’m very weak compared to you all… wah wah wah wah…

    HANDLE WHAT??? YOUR QUESTIONS AND COUNTERING SOME QUESTIONS WHICH WILL BRING NO RESULT AT ALL??? WHAT IS GOING TO BE THE GOOD THING OF THIS DISCUSSION?? OR WHT IS IT YOU ALL WANT TO ACHIEVE FROM THESE DISCUSSIONS???

    DONT YOU REALLISE THAT THIS BLOG HAVING MORE THAN A 1000 POSTS HERE HAS COME UP WITH NO GOOD THING AND ITS NOT GOING TO SERVE ANY PURPOSE OF DIVINITY??

    well… I pity you and all those here posting posing as divine people.


  326. Dear Moderator,

    Your assessment of Jim is perfectly right. He plays exactly the same tantrum.

    It is better to ignore this guy who needs to grow up both in attitude and in knowledge of scriptures.

    However, he won’t let you ignore him. He will provoke, then write sarcastically, then poke fun, complain, evade questions, shift topics. All these are to coerce us to address him. Maybe he was a kid who lacked appropriate attention in childhood.

    Let us focus on the topic of this blog i.e the misinterpretations and false doctrines of TPM. Many people who visit this site have written to me that they have been blessed by the insights they get about TPM.

    That helps them to grow up spiritually by the following ways:

    1. Stop bragging about TPM workers.
    2. Start defending Christ and His love rather than defend the TPM workers irrationally.
    3. Start equipping themselves to proclaim Christ.
    4. Stop depending on TPM workers for intercession and spiritual food and start depending on the Holy Spirit as per 1 Jon 2:27.
    5. Loving and mingling with all christian groups and ministries and giving up jingoism for TPM workers.
    6. Uderstanding that the heart is the temple of God and giving up TPM identity.
    7. Giving up show off of the false external white washed, white dressed religion and start showing religion by love for all christian groups by mingling with them and singing their songs.
    8. Create awareness among girls so that they do not get deceived by TPM’s false doctrines and end up washing vessels and lavatories.

    May God bless the Moderator.


  327. Maybe he was a kid who lacked appropriate attention in childhood.

    This comment reflects the quality of your upbringing and the standards of your parents who brought you up. CONGRATULATIONS YOU ARE RATED in 5 STARS (better than me— I’m jealous of you now) !!!

    Many people who visit this site have written to me that they have been blessed by the insights they get about TPM.

    Many of them BLESSED??? I still have the chain mails with me when you could not respond to any of the mails and you stopped maling to us…

    Create awareness among girls so that they do not get deceived by TPM’s false doctrines and end up washing vessels and lavatories.

    Girls are faaar behind in this task… Brothers have already made their place and are number one here too.

    1. Stop bragging about TPM workers.
    We never do that… clear your misconceptions first and then talk.

    3. Start equipping themselves to proclaim Christ.

    Start?? Ask this question yourself 1st… Have YOU started or still among the deads???

    Stop depending on TPM workers for intercession and spiritual food and start depending on the Holy Spirit as per 1 Jon 2:27.

    Who told you this new rotten fact?? intercession for our prayers are “in the name of Jesus” not any workers…

    Loving and mingling with all christian groups and ministries and giving up jingoism for TPM workers.

    We however cannot compromise on this one. Look at yourself.. you expect us to mingle ourselves with people like you??

    We preach gospel so that we may present every man in Christ Jesus (Col 1:28) and not some tpm worker or people like you, who are jingoistic for being against tpm. What difference does it make wheather it be you or any tpm people if you think they are sinners??

    Uderstanding that the heart is the temple of God and giving up TPM identity.

    Give glory to God and not tpm. Heart is the temple of God… And about the identity, It has to have an identity for the goverment and the church-goers like any other christians… you are not a church-goer so for you everyone going to church are bad and if not, you are advocating that tpm should be a secret society, having no identity which against the Word of God. How can tpm exist without having an identity??

    In John 18:20, Jesus said,
    “Jesus answered him, I spake openly to the world; I ever taught in the synagogue, and in the temple, whither the Jews always resort; and in secret have I said nothing.” -

    Ephesians 5:11-14: “For it is shameful even to mention what the disobedient do in secret.”

    1Thessalonians 5:21 says, test everything and hold on to good. and 22 says: abstain from evil. if tpm is evil, are you abstaining from it??

    And about tpm workers?? More than being of tpm workers, they are over us in the Lord and to admonish us and teach us. it also tells us to hold them in the highest regard.

    Thessalonians 5:12,13 says: 12 Now we ask you, brothers, to respect those who work hard among you, who are over you in the Lord and who admonish you. 13 Hold them in the highest regard in love because of their work.

    Start defending Christ and His love rather than defend the TPM workers irrationally.

    Its you who is doing it.. you are always bragging about tpm.. we never do that.. we are taught to defend Christ at all times.

    start showing religion by love … and not by white clothes

    Well I dont believe in any religion, Christ for me is TRUTH.. HIS existence is TRUTH.. its a fact that HE LIVES… And for me, Christ never came down leaving all glory of the heaven to create a religion… but to save you, save me and to redeem the whole mankind form the bondage of sin. And that HE IS COMING back VERY SOON… !!!

    May God bless the Moderator.

    May good Lord open her eys first to reallise that these is a God. May He fill her with divine understanding so that she repends and turns to God, to be worthy of HIS blessings.

    I would like Rachel Chitra to go thru this testimony of a hard-core athiest.

    http://www.gospelguitarcourse.com/main.php?e=&l=&r=0


  328. Satan works forociously to stop the voice of warning and to keep the flock under enslavement. Imaging what TPM did to Pas. Philip. That same spirit is working even against the prophets.

    Voice of warning?? I never hear that and dont want to hear as long as my ears are inclined toward God to hear His voice. Where are your ears and mouth inclined to ??

    “Imagining what TPM did to Pas…. blah blah…”

    First of all, TPM is an identity and not a man. Secondly, even Pas. Philip belonged to CPM (which again was an entity)… CPM still exists in Ceylon with same teachings and doctrines as TPM.. Its just the name that is different.

    In every country, tpm is known with a different name. See wikipedia for more info… a gyst as follows…

    Grace New Covenant Pentecostal Church – Canada
    Universal Pentecostal Church – Great Britain
    Eglise de Pentecote Primitive – France
    Iglesia Communion Cristiana – Puerto Rico
    New Testament Church – Sierra Leone
    New Covenant Pentecostal Church – Australia
    New Testament Church – New Zealand
    New Testament Church– Papua New Guinea
    New Testament Church – Nepal
    New Testament Church – Fiji
    Iglesia del Nueva Testamento – Mexico
    Iglesia Communion Cristiana – El Salvador
    Iglesia Communion Cristiana – Costa Rica
    New Testament Church – Kenya
    Christliche Gnaden Gemeinde – Switzerland
    Neue Testament Kirche – Germany
    The Universal Pentecostal Church – Nigeria
    The Pentecostal Mission (TPM) – India
    Pentecostal Church of Malaysia
    Pentecostal Church of Singapore
    New Testament Church – Middle East (headquartered in Dubai, UAE)

    It now has churches (or Faith Homes) in every continent with close to 2 – 3 million believers worldwide. The church has spread to many parts of Sri Lanka, as well as India, Nepal, Malaysia, Singapore, Hong Kong, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, USA, England, France, Europe, Africa, Caribbean Islands, and the Middle East, and is continuing to expand.


  329. DO PASTORS & APOSTLES NEED TO BE CELIBATES?

    The TPM denomination claims the following:

    1. That apostles and pastors would do better if they remain unmarried.
    2. That TPM pastors are superior to pastors from other denominations.
    3. Apostles should not be married or in case they are married earlier they should forsake their wives.

    WHAT IS THE TRUTH?

    Dear Brethren, 1 Timothy 3: 5 says, “(If anyone does not know how to manage his own family, how can he take care of God’s church?)”

    Thus, God expects the people, especially those who lead and manage congregations, to be married and be able to manage their family.

    Secondly, Jesus never commanded His apostles to remain unmarried. If He had required that apostles should be celibates, He would have selected unmarried people as apostles. However, Jesus chose married people as apostles.

    Thirdly, 1 Corinthians 9:5 says, “5Don’t we have the right to take a believing wife along with us, as do the other apostles and the Lord’s brothers and Cephas[a]?

    The above verse clearly states that apostles never forsook their wives but instead they took them along. Moreover, Paul the apostle claims, in the above verse, that he has a right to marry as the other apostles did.

    Fourthly, in 1 Timothy 4: 1, 2 and 3 the Bible warns saying, “The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. They forbid people to marry…”

    Thus, the Holy Spirit warns that in the last days, false teachers will forbid people to abstain from marriage. Beware of TPM which calls marriage as lustful and defiling.


  330. Paul the apostle claims, in the above verse, that he has a right to marry as the other apostles did.

    Something to be noted here… Apostle Paul claimed his right to be married… this is absolutely correct.. BUT DID HE MARRY ??

    In 1 Cor 7:1 Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman.

    Noted?? It is good… So this is what called as a “higher calling”… because when you marry, you care for the things of this world… (children’s education, cooking, working in the world to make a living, serving husband and fufilling his and her own desires, children’s growth, and lot more…)

    1 Cor 7:34 There is difference also between a wife and a virgin. The unmarried woman careth for the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and in spirit: but she that is married careth for the things of the world, how she may please her husband.

    Apostle Paul says again: 1 Cor 7:32 But I would have you without carefulness. He that is unmarried careth for the things that belong to the Lord, how he may please the Lord:

    Same is said about the man too

    1 Cor 7:33 But he that is married careth for the things that are of the world, how he may please his wife.

    Now you want to know what is calling???

    1 Cor 7:22: For he that is called in the Lord, being a servant, is the Lord’s freeman: likewise also he that is called, being free, is Christ’s servant…

    No go through this one…

    1 Cor 7:6 But I speak this by permission, and not of commandment.

    Remember Susan…. this is NOT a COMMANDMENT… but a CHOICE as Apostle Paul says.. its a choice… Paul doesnt say all these as a commandement. SO again working as pastors as married is NOT a sin but GOOD in the eyes of the Lord.

    Paul says that you MAY do this but you are not COMMANDED to do this… So again this clearly is a choice… tpm is just a name on the registration on a piece of paper for an identity for the goverment formalities… The workers are neither tpm nor tpm is any worker… tpm is an entity.

    When an entire chapter dedicated to serving the lord is clearly there, why theres any need to select only those verses which are suiting as per your choice??

    Remember that the Word of the Lord is like 2-edged sword !!!

    Rachel Chitra,

    The following statement from Susan not cross-lines clearly indicates that you are one-sided… Do you even reallise the depth of hatred she has in her heart for me that she finally targeted my upbringing?? Do you even know that the quality of this comment refelcts the inside-out quality of her character too??

    Maybe he was a kid who lacked appropriate attention in childhood.


  331. TPM makes celibacy a commandment for workers. Married people who joined the ministry have to renounce marriage. This is the deception of TPM.

    If marriage makes a person less caring for the Lord then why do TPM pastors get marriage licenses to promote the attitude of “caring less” for the lord among the people?

    Paul the apostle did not have a marriage licence to conduct marriages. But TPM is marriage club conducting marriages and denouncing marriages at the same time.


  332. TPM makes celibacy a commandment for workers.

    I pity your perception on this. Let me put some light on to this… tpm has workers who are married.. but nowadays, since it has become a headache for the management for handling workers having family when instructed for transfers etc, it becomes a great pain for the entire family to move from one place to anotherand sometime leads to disobedience.. So tpm management doesnt say you cant marry.. but says if you want to marry and serve the Lord, go and evangelise the people independanly…

    As for the licence, I’ll get back to u 2moro.. I’m getting late for an imp meeting and then straightaway for home.. bye.


  333. Jim,

    Susan hinted that you might be an attention seeker…because of not getting enough attention during your childhood.
    You immediately said, “Susan’s parents are bad and so is her upbringing…”
    And anyway at some point I also feel your behaviour is only “attention seeking…” You can’t carry a conversation, answer a question or even address any of the issues.
    You said I’d go to hell, I told you I was offended by your attitude and posted a long reply. You happily ignored that as you ignored my other replies. A decent person would have apologised.
    If name-calling and accusations are the only thing you are capable of, why hold us to account if we think your behaviour is “attention seeking?”
    Do be more careful when you send mail…..you could be arrested for such “hate mail.” I have known of bloggers in the US, who have approached the courts when they didn’t like people sending them hate mail.


  334. 1. Jim said, “…but (TPM) says if you want to marry and serve the Lord, go and evangelise the people independanly…”

    Any person with a very poor IQ also could understand the above statement of Jim to mean exactly what Susan said.

    Susan implied that, “TPM does not allow married workers to remain in marriage after entering TPM ministry”.

    And Jim goes around as if trying to disprove Susan’s point and ends up exactly what Susan stated.

    What Jim is doing is called as twisting and ending up doing nothing.

    The Moderator is right. Jim lacks the decency and in my opinion he lacks intellectual soundness as well.

    2. TPM itself is independent not mingling with other christians with a “holier than thou” attitude. Why does Jim come to mingle here (maybe for attention!) irrationally one wonders?

    All christians who are in Christ are dependent on God. There is no such thing as independent ministry which TPM claims. Pas. Raman Kutty left Pas. Walter Clifford and started a separate fellowship. Did Walter go around telling that TPM was independent? No. Because he was decent.


  335. David,

    Ranjith’s statements make a lot of sense. He says he is with the TPM because he wants to follow their belief system. He doesn’t impose his belief system on others. He doesn’t say like Jim, “No one should criticise TPM. No one has the right to criticise the TPM. If you dare criticise the TPM you are not a Christian.” For Ranjith it was a matter of personal conviction, which all of us can respect.
    And his friend Ace tells us: “And if you dare criticise the TPM it means you are anti-Christ.”
    I had to delete so many of Ace’s comments. He was so abusive! Shocking!
    I wonder if they have at all read the Bible.


  336. He doesn’t say like Jim, “No one should criticise TPM. No one has the right to criticise the TPM.

    Listen up… I said no one should criticise tpm unless you know inside-out of it…

    Any person with a very poor IQ also could understand the above statement of Jim to mean exactly what Susan said.

    So ur here to rate other’s IQ… it seems you lack the Love of Christ.. If youare talking about my IQ, u must keep in mind that I’m an engg having a job in Mumbai. dont blabber around.

    There is a difference between criticising and the way to decently percieve it. May be I want to say exactly wht Susan wants to imply… but then again theres a difference in that too. She looks at it in the negative view-point.

    take for eg this one itself: but (TPM) says if you want to marry and serve the Lord, go and evangelise the people independanly…”

    Now point out to me whats so negative about this?? tpm says go and evangelise independanly as they are not able to manage the married couples in the ministry. I told you about the St Paul’s choice. Its a choice and not a commandment.

    And Jim goes around as if trying to disprove Susan’s point and ends up exactly what Susan stated.

    I never tried to counter any of the posts here… infact I was never here for it… I was trying to make some sense out of your critic posts which in a way are distracting, horrible, full-of-hatred and spirit of divisions among the christians esp new and weaker souls in Christ.

    TPM itself is independent not mingling with other christians with a “holier than thou” attitude.

    I’ve posted my about this earlier… leme come up with again

    “We however cannot compromise on this one. Look at yourself.. you expect us to mingle ourselves with people like you??

    We preach gospel so that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus (Col 1:28) and not some tpm worker or people like you, who are jingoistic for being against tpm. What difference does it make wheather it be you or any tpm people if you think they are sinners??

    And about the attitude, David Anna… I would say improvise on your negative attitude and be happy atleast they know Christ and if they are wrong, God LIVES to judge..be happy smile and go on. This attitude of yours, Susan’s, Rachel V etc will only cause yourself to loose your patience and increase the mental pain and frustation which again may lead to health problems.

    And if you say you are a critic and its your job or hobby is to do that, then I would say….. “I pity a critic’s life… a critic kills himself and adds no value to any one’s life” just like you people.. If you are saying I’m here for attention, I wud laugh at it… because I think the same about you all.

    The Moderator is right. Jim lacks the decency and in my opinion he lacks intellectual soundness as well.

    I again would laugh at it. cos you are talking about my intellectual soundness when and I’ve been thinking about you in this regard. I told you this entire blog is aimed at criticising tpm and people related to it and serves no good thing for the society. Now whos posting here for attention??, Who lacks the intellectual soundness??


  337. All christians who are in Christ are dependent on God. There is no such thing as independent ministry which TPM claims.

    David… I dont want to rate your IQ but then this statement from you has compelled me to do that. The first statement is very much correct… But the 2nd statement.. “theres no such thing…blah blah”.. this is typed out of aggresion because it talks about its financial and support-independency without any aid from any foriegn missionary group; depending only in the faith they have in Christ. And you see the result.

    It now has churches (or Faith Homes) in every continent with close to 2 – 3 million believers worldwide. The church has spread to many parts of Sri Lanka, as well as India, Nepal, Malaysia, Singapore, Hong Kong, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, USA, England, France, Europe, Africa, Caribbean Islands, and the Middle East, and is continuing to expand.


  338. 1. Being an Engineer says nothing about the knowledge of the scriptures.

    2. Jim says, “I never tried to counter any of the posts here…”

    Reply: Because he cannot counter them. TPM has false doctrines and Jim or anyone else has not countered anyone as yet. Truth cannot be countered.

    3. Jim’s attitude and behaviour draws negative reaction and he is talking about the greatness of TPM. TPM is a pack of similar people like Jim filled with worker zeal and lack of knowledge.

    They cannot mingle with others because of their slavery to TPM identity.

    They cannot sing other songs because they could not give up the false doctrines intertwined in TPM songs.

    4. TPM makes celibacy as a mandatory commandment which is alien to Paul. Secondly Paul did not have marriage licence like TPM marriage registrars.

    5. IN CHENNAI TPM HAS JUST 23 CHURCHES IN TOTAL. HOWEVER, OTHER PENTECOSTAL CHURCHES HAVE 2,500 CHURCHES IN CHENNAI ALONE. TPM CAME TO CHENNAI IN 1945 BUT OTHER PENTECOSTAL CHURCHES CAME ONLY AFTER 1975.

    TPM CHURCH HAS A TOTAL OF 25,000 BELIEVERS IN CHENNAI WHEREAS THE OTHER PENTECOSTAL CHURCHES HAVE A TOTAL OF 2,60,000 BELIEVERS!!


  339. Susan hinted that you might be an attention seeker…because of not getting enough attention during your childhood.

    O.. that way… if so then plz care to tell her this also that I was one among best singers and guitarists right from my young age and has won many awards and merits, even came in news papers… and still I’m into it. I’ve got blogs, articles, poems and songs, compositions, ballads which are read, and appreciated by people.. As far as attention is concerned, I ONLY HAD THAT.

    And anyway at some point I also feel your behaviour is only “attention seeking…” You can’t carry a conversation, answer a question or even address any of the issues.

    ‘Attention-seeking’ is the key word that I would like to relate with all of you…. I cant carry a conversation or answer a question or even address any of the issues??

    well….I cleared it… I’m not into this conversation and dont want to be.. as this conversations are leading to nothing good… I dont want to answer any of your questions as it doesnt make any sense.. you said it.. “ita matter of personal conviction”.. this is my personal conviction…

    And as far as clearing the wrong perceptions and negativity in attitude among you is concernerd, I’ll try and definitely clear those. Did I say clearing them.. this is possible only wen you are ready to accept it..


  340. Being an Engineer says nothing about the knowledge of the scriptures.

    What is the meaning of the above??
    I dont need to have an in-depth knowledge about the scriptures as far as I believe in my Lord blindly than having excess knowledge for nothing good concerning winning souls. What is your knowledge worth??? exposing truth?? what truth?? that tpm is bad?? after so many posts that you have posted, how many of the tpm people have ever benefitted from it or got convinced with your so called “personal convictions”??

    Reply: Because he cannot counter them. TPM has false doctrines and Jim or anyone else has not countered anyone as yet. Truth cannot be countered.

    Did you say counter the truth?? Yes its a TRUTH that the TRUTH you claim is your personal convictions targetted towards suiting your own personality. And I cant help it.. I cant counter them.. I can only tell you what my personal convictions are and how both can be percieved as a positive aspect…

    They cannot mingle with others because of their slavery to TPM identity.

    Well… I’ve cleared you about the hows and whys regarding the identity of the tpm… but then.. if cant percieve or grasp and register it into the grey cells of your brain, I’m very sorry for you.

    They cannot sing other songs because they could not give up the false doctrines intertwined in TPM songs.

    There are many churches which has been inspired from tpm songs and sing it in their churches too… And even we take inspiration.. I’m into it. I perform all gospel songs varying from country gospel songs of calvary group to hill-songs and gospel songs of don moen, elvis, jim reeves, randy travis.. etc IN THE CHURCH during the anniversaries… why dont you take it as a positive aspect.. Take my words.. “Change your attitude and see the whole world changing Just For You”…

    TPM makes celibacy as a mandatory commandment which is alien to Paul. Secondly Paul did not have marriage licence like TPM marriage registrars.

    I told you its a choice and not a commandment to be celibate and serve the lord… now wht about those who want to marry?? Now if you want to be married, there are further strict instructions in bible about it.. you know that better than me… So to join people in holy matrimony, Pastors has to have licences, to abide by the goverment rules and regulations. Otherwise marriages in tpm wil not be goverment recognised leading to disobedience of Law of the land.

    IN CHENNAI TPM HAS JUST 23 CHURCHES IN TOTAL. HOWEVER, OTHER PENTECOSTAL CHURCHES HAVE 2,500 CHURCHES IN CHENNAI ALONE. TPM CAME TO CHENNAI IN 1945 BUT OTHER PENTECOSTAL CHURCHES CAME ONLY AFTER 1975. TPM CHURCH HAS A TOTAL OF 25,000 BELIEVERS IN CHENNAI WHEREAS THE OTHER PENTECOSTAL CHURCHES HAVE A TOTAL OF 2,60,000 BELIEVERS!!

    tpm = 23, other pentacostals=2,500
    Total = 23+2500= 2423 churches (wonderful)

    tpm believers=25,000, Other pentacostal believers= 2,60,000
    Total = 25000+260,000=2,85,000 (wonderful)

    What is the population of Chennai- 4.34 million… Can you believe that figure?? How many of them are not saved ?? What is all that your scriptural knowledge is worth when you couldnt win them?? Remembr you’ll be answerable in the judgement day…

    The matter here is an integrated approach. You take things positively and the things comes to you positively… agin leme remind you… “Change your attitude and see the whole world changing Just For You”…


  341. Rachel C,

    The problems with critics are that they dont change…. but thier views and opinions keep on changing as facts are revealed to them from time to time… They think they are trying and changing the people but they are not doing that too. They think they are finding faults and bringing about a change in some system. But then, they are killing themselves with thier own perceptions.. because criticism is widely accepted as finger-pointing and as bad gesture by the most.

    If you start criticising, there are many things in this world to be targeted.. Did I say MANY things?? There can be criticism in EVERYTHING you see or come across if you see them with the critic’s eyes.

    If we start living for the sake of criticising anyone or anything, a million life wont be enough for it… So how do we take out time to LIVE our lives peacefully??

    Life is beyond criticising…


  342. Hey Rachel,

    You might learn a lot from us and we might also learn a lot from you.

    Well sorry I can learn nothing from you even if I try… and I dont think I’m teaching you anything to be learnt from me… please spare me… I’m not here to teach anyone anything unless people allow themselves to learn to percieve positively with a positive attitude. If people have a positive attitude, they dont need anyone teaching or guiding them to percieve things…

    Btw; well.. thanks for visiting my blogs… I’m not in my early 20s but in the mid 20s… That pic in the blog i’ve put up is an old one… but since I like its original scenary behind, I’m keeping it. Its not taken in a studio… I’ve other blogs too, if you care to read them..

    http://www.symbyrockers.blogspot.com
    http://www.itinfratech.blogspot.com

    I read your blog and found it quite interesting.

    Thanks again.

    Thanks-
    Jimson


  343. The founder Pastor Paul was a married man and
    had children when in a faithhome. The celibate type of
    ministry was introduced by Pastor Alvin, a sinhalese. He changed Paul’s vision into a catholic style ministry. Finally
    this Alvin fell in adultery and was excommunicated
    from CPM.

    Pastor Freddy Paul, son of founder had got
    many Pastors married. A leading example is Pastor
    Manohar who is now in Jaipur faithhome. He has four
    children. His wife is Sis. Lilykutty. Similarly the
    founder Paul also got 10 Pastors married and they
    lived in a marriage when in CPM ministry.

    1 Corinthians 9 verse 5 states that the apostles had the
    authority to be married and that was why Pastors like
    Manohar, Founder Paul, Pastor Joseph (Composer Sis.
    Glory’s dad), Mother Arthur etc., were all in marriage
    during their ministry.

    Later, celibacy was promoted to create an identity for CPM and thereby preserve their believers from leaving the denomination.

    The Founders of CPM had made a commitment to live in rental houses and not to buy lands and buildings of their own. That is why they decided to call their places of worship as “faith homes”. However, lands are purchased now and buildings are constructed. Even now the places of worship are called as “faith home” in contrary to the commitment.

    TPM is an isolated insignificant small group with many fabricated false doctrines to perch up their image unbiblically.

    Very soon their identity would fall and unity is going to blossom among the denominations just as it is going to be in heaven.


  344. on February 12, 2009 at 8:32 am rachel varghese

    WHO IS A SHEPHERD?

    In John chapter 10 and verses 11, 12 & 13, Jesus says, “I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep. The hired hand is not the shepherd who owns the sheep….The man runs away because he is a hired hand and cares nothing for the sheep.”

    In the above verse, Jesus shows the difference between a shepherd and the hired hand. The following are the differences:

    1. The shepherd owns the sheep but the hired hand does not.

    2. The shepherd lives and dies along with the sheep whereas the hired hand runs away. Where does he run? He runs to another town. Why? To lead another herd of sheep. Thus, he goes from town to town and does not take responsibility for the sheep.

    Can you understand? TPM pastors are just like the hired hands who run from place to place. They never own the sheep. TPM workers are similar to the priests in the Roman Catholic church who go from parish to parish. These are “hired hands” and not shepherds.

    They just pretend to be interceding for you when actually they just want your money. They want you to be dependent on them so they can help themselves with your money. They just do not care for you or for your calling as a priest to be fulfilled. Beware of these “hired hands”!!


  345. In John chapter 10 and verses 11, 12 & 13, Jesus says, “I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep.

    Where is Jesus then?? Is He in the other town?? or other country?? He is out of this world in heaven… So do you call him a hired hand too??

    They just pretend to be interceding for you when actually they just want your money.

    This is again your personal conviction. Good for you !!!

    They just do not care for you or for your calling as a priest to be fulfilled. Beware of these “hired hands”!!

    In one hand you say.. we are all idividually called to be priests and on the other hand, you advocate us to depend on our sheperds (pastors) and say they dont really care for you.. Who wants them to care for us when Jesus the high priest is ALIVE and hes going to come back very soon??

    Again here the matter is of perception.

    And David brother… what you have posted is something very very old… I’ve responded to these more than enough times.


  346. Very soon their identity would fall and unity is going to blossom among the denominations just as it is going to be in heaven.

    I dont know how would you take it if I say it. My wisdom says.. this view is of an anti-christian…. because you are saying it for “denominations” which inludes all the oriental denominations like hinduism, greek gods, budhism, jainism etc…

    A day as you say is not far when a man will arise from men who will call for unity and peace and compromise all teh religious and denominational faiths to build one and only one true religion… I can go on explaining this thing page and page about this if you want.. Let me know if you want to.

    For me as a Christian and my teaching, I’m NOT READY TO COMPROMISE WHAT I HAVE LEARNT AND I’LL HOLD ON TO MY FAITH IN CHRIST at any cost.


  347. If name-calling and accusations are the only thing you are capable of, why hold us to account if we think your behaviour is “attention seeking?”

    Rachel,

    “If name-calling, accusations, abuses, hatred, divisions and confusions are the only thing you and your blog is capable of, why hold ME to account if I think your behaviour is “attention-seeking???””

    Name calling is something in which you are into along with all others here. And my hate mails you are talking about, …. I’m wondering if this is really you or some hacking tools posting this posts…

    BECAUSE THIS ENTIRE BLOG IS TARGETTED TO ABUSE AND IS FULL OF HATE MAILS FOR SOME COMMUNITY…


  348. Ace,

    Your words are quite harsh and they might not like it, We need to love our enemys as ourselves… You should to be more wise than to point-finger out of emotions, lest devil works in you too… Plz dont be offended ace, cos this is fact.. hatred is devil, devil is haterd…. whereas, God is Love.

    I got this mail from a brother Moses… Please read…

    This person (all of those posting here against any community) is best described by the Word of God as a heretick in

    (Titus 3:10
    A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;) the Bible also tells us to reject the counsel and company of such indiscriminate people. I urge you therefore to add this user to spam and please block all her mails and forwards .

    The Word of God also tells us in

    Titus 3:9
    But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings. Therefore let us keep quiet on these matters and avoid confrontations and let us be strong and sincere in our Faith and in our fellowship with the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

    Also in (1 Timothy 6:20:
    O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and VAIN BABBLINGS, and oppositions) And…

    (2 Timothy 2:16:
    But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.)

    (Ephesians 2:10
    We are the building and workmanship of Christ. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.) We are created unto good works so let us continue in good works not bringing a railing accusation like satan. If we accuse our fellow

    Christians Jude1:9
    says The Lord will rebuke us. Let us therefore escape the wrath of God and continue in undisputed harmony and the Love of Calvary.

    Ephesians 2:21
    Says In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord . Hence let us be united in Christ Being an holy temple unto Him without any kind of differences.

    Please do not bother about the mails u receive from the afore mentioned user and SIMPLY IGNORE.

    Follow the advice of St. Paul given in 1 Timothy 1:19,20

    19: Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck:

    20: Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.

    I Peter 2:1: Let us cease from all manner of malice and evil speaking.

    May the Lord give us His manifold wisdom and unceasing Grace to withstand all manner of criticism and to be at perfect peace.

    Please encourage the children of God and don’t discourage.


  349. on February 14, 2009 at 4:41 am rachel varghese

    TRUE SACRIFICE. WHAT IS IT?

    What is sacrifice? God has given us many resources like time, energy, wisdom, money etc. Sacrifice means spending our resources for the work in God’s kingdom.

    God wants us to sacrifice. How can we sacrifice? By spending our time and energy to do the following:

    1. Read and meditate the scriptures with a concordance Bible and a Chain reference. Psalms 1:2.
    2. Ask and wait on the Holy Spirit for a word of encouragement.
    3. Share that word of encouragement with those in suffering and pain.
    4. Gather the family members and neighbors and lead them in worship to God as per Acts 2:46.
    5. Teach them the scriptures as per Colossians 3:16.
    6. Give tithes to gospel workers and pastors in villages as per 1 Cor 9:13,14.

    The above is the sacrifice, which God wants. However, most Pentecostals have chosen the following sacrifice:
    1. Removing jewels.
    2. Wearing white saree and white shirts.
    3. Shaving the moustache.
    4. Depending on pastors like kids.
    5. Pleasing the pastors.

    Dear Brethren, God sees the heart and not your external display. Hence, instead of an external “show” of piety and righteousness like the Hindu sanyasis and Buddhist monks, show your godliness before God by “working” for the kingdom of God as per item 1 to item 6.

    Be a Pentecostal by the “internal” experience shown in preaching His gospel with miracles as per John 14:12 and not by the external display of white dress. Avoid showing off your religion, piety and righteousness to others. God hates that.

    Build the temple inside you rather than the buildings of denominations. Most Pentecostal pastors train the believers to give money while the believers remain as kids. Pastors do this by “feeding” them instead of “equipping” them.

    Seek to give the true sacrifices, which God desires and thus lay treasures in heaven.


  350. hi guys,

    praise the lord, we r the followers of jesus christ lets not quaral each other pls. we have to be in one fold bcos’ god is our sheperd, if we dont have unity in us satan will defenetly scater us and use us of his works so pls dont abuse any denomination in christianity,

    thanks

    prasanna


  351. TRUE SACRIFICE. WHAT IS IT?

    What is sacrifice? God has given us many resources like time, energy, wisdom, money etc. Sacrifice means spending our resources for the work in God’s kingdom.

    God wants us to sacrifice. How can we sacrifice? By spending our time and energy to do the following:

    1. Read and meditate the scriptures with a concordance Bible and a Chain reference. Psalms 1:2.
    2. Ask and wait on the Holy Spirit for a word of encouragement.
    3. Share that word of encouragement with those in suffering and pain.
    4. Gather the family members and neighbors and lead them in worship to God as per Acts 2:46.
    5. Teach them the scriptures as per Colossians 3:16.
    6. Give tithes to gospel workers and pastors in villages as per 1 Cor 9:13,14.

    The above is the sacrifice, which God wants. However, most Pentecostals have chosen the following sacrifice:
    1. Removing jewels.
    2. Wearing white saree and white shirts.
    3. Shaving the moustache.
    4. Depending on pastors like kids.
    5. Pleasing the pastors.

    Dear Brethren, God sees the heart and not your external display. Hence, instead of an external “show” of piety and righteousness like the Hindu sanyasis and Buddhist monks, show your godliness before God by “working” for the kingdom of God as per item 1 to item 6.

    Be a Pentecostal by the “internal” experience shown in preaching His gospel with miracles as per John 14:12 and not by the external display of white dress. Avoid showing off your religion, piety and righteousness to others. God hates that.

    Build the temple inside you rather than the buildings of denominations. Most Pentecostal pastors train the believers to give money while the believers remain as kids. Pastors do this by “feeding” them instead of “equipping” them.

    Seek to give the true sacrifices, which God desires and thus lay treasures in heaven.

    OLD…OLD… THIS IS A VERY VERY OLD POST… ROTTEN AND NOW STINKING SINCE AGES…


  352. Hi Chitra,

    This is a nice mail I got, thought I would share it with you.

    Answer to an interview question on religion by ‘Larry Wall’ (founder of Perl programming language)

    -worth reading.

    7) Role of Religion?
    Asked by Anonymous

    I remember reading at some point that you are a Christian, and there have been suggestions that some of your early missionary impulses (a desire to do good, help others) are perhaps part of the zeal you have put into Perl over the years.

    Preferring a scientific view, I am not religious, and have no desire to be. Perhaps there is a God, but if there is, I think he/she has no opposable thumbs; in other words, has no power to change anything; reality is just playing out according to the laws of physics (whatever those are).

    Please tell us how in the world a scientific or at least technical mind can believe in God, and what role religion has played in your work on Perl.

    A:

    Well, hmm, that’s a topic for an entire essay, or a book, or a life. But I’ll try to keep it short.

    When you say “how in the world”, I take it to mean that you find it more or less inconceivable that someone with a scientific mind (or at least technical mind, hah!) could chooose to believe in God. I’d like to at least get you to the point where you find it conceivable. I expect a good deal of the problem is that you are busy disbelieving a different God than the one I am busy believing in. In theological discussions more than any other kind, it’s easy to talk at right angles and never even realize it.

    So let me try to clarify what I mean, and reduce it to as few information bits as possible. A lot of people have a vested interest in making this a lot tougher to swallow than it needs to be, but it’s supposed to be simple enough that a child can understand it. It doesn’t take great energetic gobs of faith on your part–after all, Jesus said you only have to have faith the size of a mustard seed. So just how big is that, in information theory terms? I think it’s just two bits big. Please allow me to qoute a couple “bits” from Hebrews, slightly paraphrased:

    You can’t please God the way Enoch did without some faith, because those who come to God must (minimally) believe that:
    A) God exists, and
    B) God is good to people who really look for him.

    That’s it. The “good news” is so simple that a child can understand it, and so deep that a philosopher can’t.

    Now, it appears that you’re willing to admit the possibility of bit A being a 1, so you’re almost halfway there. Or maybe you’re a quarter way there on average, if it’s a qubit that’s still flopping around like Shoedinger’s Cat. You’re the observer there, not me–unless of course you’re dead. :-)

    A lot of folks get hung up at point B for various reasons, some logical and some moral, but mostly because of Shroedinger again. People are almost afraid to observe the B qubit because they don’t want the wave function to collapse either to a 0 or a 1, since both choices are deemed unpalatable. A lot of people who claim to be agnostics don’t take the position so much because they don’t know, but because they don’t want to know, sometimes desperately so.

    Because if it turns out to be a 0, then we really are the slaves of our selfish genes, and there’s no basis for morality other than various forms of tribalism.

    And because if it turns out to be a 1, then you have swallow a whole bunch of flim-flam that goes with it. Or do you?

    Let me admit to you that I came at this from the opposite direction. I grew up in a religious culture, and I had to learn to “unswallow” an awful lot of stuff in order to strip my faith down to these two bits.

    I tried to strip it down further, but I couldn’t, because God told me: “That’s far enough. I already flipped your faith bits to 1, because I’m a better Observer than you are. You are Shroedinger’s cat in reverse–you were dead spiritually, but I’ve already examined the qubits for you, and I think they’re both 1. Who are you to disagree with me?”

    So, who am I to disagree with God? :-) If he really is the Author of the universe, he’s allowed to observe the qubits, and he’s probably even allowed to cheat occasionally and force a few bit flips to make it a better story. That’s how Authors work. Whether or not they have thumbs…

    Once you see the universe from that point of view, many arguments fade into unimportance, such as Hawking’s argument that the universe fuzzed into existence at the beginning, and therefore there was no creator. But it’s also true that the Lord of the Rings fuzzed into existence, and that doesn’t mean it doesn’t have a creator. It just means that the creator doesn’t create on the same schedule as the creature’s.

    If God is creating the universe sideways like an Author, then the proper place to look for the effects of that is not at the fuzzy edges, but at the heart of the story. And I am personally convinced that Jesus stands at the heart of the story. The evidence is there if you care to look, and if you don’t get distracted by the claims of various people who have various agendas to lead you in every possible direction, and if you don’t fall into the trap of looking for a formula rather than looking for God as a person. All human institutions are fallible, and will create a formula for you to determine whether you belong to the tribe or not. Very often these formulas are called doctrines and traditions and such, and there is some value in them, as there is some value in any human culture. But they all kind of miss the point.

    “Systematic theology” is an oxymoron. God is not a system. Christians are fond of asking: “What would Jesus do in this situation?” Unfortunately, they very rarely come up with the correct answer, which is: “Something unexpected!” If the Creator really did write himself into his own story, that’s what we ought to expect to see. Creative solutions.

    And this creativity is intended to be transitive. We are expected to be creative. And we’re expected to help others be creative.

    And that leads us back (finally) to the last part of your question, how all this relates to Perl.

    Perl is obviously my attempt to help other people be creative. In my little way, I’m sneakily helping people understand a bit more about the sort of people God likes.

    Going further, we have the notion that a narrative should be defined by its heart and not by its borders. That ties in with my linguistic notions that things ought to be defined by prototype rather than by formula. It ties in to my refusal to define who is or is not a “good” Perl programmer, or who exactly is or isn’t a member of the “Perl community”. These things are all defined by their centers, not by their peripheries.

    The philosophy of TMTOWTDI (“There’s more than one way to do it.”) is a direct result of observing that the Author of the universe is humble, and chooses to exercise control in subtle rather than in heavy-handed ways. The universe doesn’t come with enforced style guidelines. Creative people will develop style on their own. Those are the sort of people that will make heaven a nice place.

    And finally, there is the underlying conviction that, if you define both science and religion from their true centers, they cannot be in confict. So despite all the “religiosity” of Perl culture, we also believe in the benefits of computer science. I didn’t put lexicals and closures into Perl5 just because I thought people would start jumping up and down and shouting “Hallelujah!” (Which happens, but that’s not why I did it.)


  353. on February 18, 2009 at 10:41 am rachel varghese

    LARGE CHURCHES. WHAT IS IT?

    Most pastors introduce themselves by saying, “I pastor a church consisting of 2000 members in so and so place and in so and so country”.

    It almost sounds like they are elated over and measure their ministerial success by the fact that they have a large congregation. Is such elation and measurement of success Biblically appropriate? Let us examine that by the following illustrations.

    Illustration 1:

    If a person appears for a semester exam and fails to pass in all the papers, he gets arrears. He has to appear for the exam again during the next semester. Thus, the next time he has to write 6 papers plus the 6 papers which he failed in the previous exam. What happens, if for instance, he has failed on all the 12 papers and abandons his studies? Wouldn’t he be despised by the society? Yes, he would be.

    Illustration 2:

    Imagine a mother who has five adult children who are 30 years of age and above and who are unemployed and unmarried. If for instance the mother spoon-feeds those five adult children, how would it look like? Like a family? Certainly not. It would look like a lunatic asylum.

    Illustration 3:

    Do you know that mother Eagles dismantle and destroy their nest, which they themselves had built with pains? Why do they destroy their nest? In order to train their baby eaglets to fly!!

    APPLICATION OF THE ABOVE ILLUSTRATIONS:

    1. Contrary to the above illustrations, most pastors strangely boast about large congregations, which are filled with spiritually older Christians, but little do they realize it as a shame. They do not visualize that such a large congregation is just an arrears & backlog of their incomplete works.

    2. They do not visualize their congregation as a nest full of grown up eaglets unable to fly and hunt on their own.

    3. They do not visualize their congregation as a house full of 30-year-old adult children who are unemployed and unmarried.

    4. Instead they consider such congregations as proof of their success!!

    REMEMBER YOU ARE A PRIEST. ENTER THE MOST HOLY PLACE. INTERCEDE FOR OTHERS. DO NOT LEAN ON PASTORS. PREACH THE WORD ON SUNDAYS.


  354. A few Illustrations winded up with conclusions and applications that means nothing !!!

    Let me explain:

    DO NOT LEAN ON PASTORS

    First of all, pastors are full time consecrated priests unlike us but we are also priest…. but again… you say not to depend on them. OK agreed.

    Secondly, a contradiction here in ur statement…

    INTERCEDE FOR OTHERS.

    So u want us to be a part of those priests and intercede for others (who are these ‘OTHERS’ when your message, “not to depend on pastors” are for all???)

    PREACH THE WORD ON SUNDAYS. (I percieve it as “rather than going to church and listen to others who preach”)

    If this is your message for all, and if everybody preaches, who will then listen?? “You mean to preach to non-believers and athiests??” Then my question is to you… How many times have you preached in open???

    Do you know a fact that to be preaching like that in the open needs permission from the goverment?? YOu need to be belonging to some licenced or registered missionary?? And that when you complete these goverment formalities you need to have an identity???

    And again you are against identities… What do you exaclty mean to express?? Do you have a clear picture in your mind of what exaclty you want to convey??

    This is a kind of philosophy, which suits your personality, is taken subtly from the scriptures. Read them completely and fully, percieve it and follow it. Dont you please mislead others by telling them not to go to church on Sundays…

    Jesus is coming soon, the more you seek for the word of God, and the more you hunger and thirst for His Word, the more you’ll WANT to go to church.


  355. on February 21, 2009 at 4:37 am rachel varghese

    DIFFERENT TYPES OF MOTHERS. WHAT ARE THEY?

    There are different types of mothers in this world. However, predominantly, they can be classified into two types:

    A) Those that belong to the first type not only feed their daughters with food but also train them to “cook” food and “serve” food to others.

    B) Those that belong to the other type feed their daughters and expect their daughters to be with them always. They do this in order to feel secure. They are never concerned about the following:

    1. That their daughters should marry.
    2. That their daughters should give birth to children.
    3. That their daughters should feed their children.

    TO WHAT TYPE DID THE APOSLTES IN THE BIBLE BELONG TO?

    1. They commanded the Christians to exhort and instruct each other as per Colossians 3:16.

    2. They expected the Christians to grow up to be teachers and not expect to be spoon fed as per Heb 5:12.

    3. They expected the Christians to prepare spiritual food by depending on the Holy Spirit as per 1 John 2:27.

    Thus, the apostles of the Bible not only fed the Christians with spiritual food but also exhorted them to prepare spiritual food and serve it to others as well. Thus, they belonged to the first type of motherhood.

    C) However, most of the present day pastors exhibit the mentality of the second type of mothers. They expect their church members to be around them until they die. They do not realize that the members have married Christ. Thus, they are never concerned about the following:

    1. That their church members should learn to cook spiritual food.

    2. That their church members should develop a relationship with their husband who is Jesus and thus give birth to new souls.

    3. That their church members should start feeding the new souls whom they have led into salvation.

    Thus, the goal of most pastors is to enslave people to themselves and use their finances to promote their denominations.


  356. HI Rachel Varghese
    Please find below to find perfect pastors in this world.

    http://www.tsbalan.com/

    http://www.tsbalan.com/youtube.html


  357. Hi! RachelChitra,
    Greetings to you, I’m a staunch anti TPM. I just went through your script. where you have attacked the TPM doctrines but one thing that i noted was you have sidelined in all your statement- i mean i found more of Feminism added. I don’t know if it was because U yourself being a female..err whatsoever. I wished a better script. It is really good to stand against the doctrines of man influenced by devil than stand against God & His Word. My humble prayer for you is that you don’t go away from God & His Word just because of some foolish doctrines of TPM.
    May Our dear Lord Jesus Christ richly bless You!
    With lots of love & prayer,
    Joe


  358. SPIRITUAL TITLES

    Jesus commanded not to call spiritual leaders using titles as we see in Matt 23: 8-10 which says, “But you are not to be called ‘Rabbi,’ for you have only one Master and you are all brothers. And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven. Nor are you to be called ‘teacher,’ for you have one Teacher, the Christ.”

    Why did Jesus say this? Because God’s plan as per Exodus 19:6 was for every Christian to become a Priest as per the following verse.

    Exodus 19:6; “And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou (Moses) shalt speak unto the children of Israel .”

    Remember, the call to be a Priest was given not just to the Levites but also to all the 12 tribes of Israel.

    However, that plan could not be fulfilled only until after Jesus tore the veil by His blood and opened a way for us to the Father in heaven.

    And now, we all know that Jesus has already done that. He has opened the way to His Father.

    Therefore, every one of us now has access to the Most Holy Place where the Father dwells as per Hebrews 10:19 and Hebrews 4:16. Remember, even Aaron’s sons who were Priests were never allowed to enter the Most Holy Place.

    So all Christians including the pastors are brothers and priests. There is no difference between clergy and lay.

    Nevertheless, strangely and highly ignorant of the above scriptural truth, the Pentecostal pastors advertise themselves as Pastors and Chief Pastors etc. God gave pastors but never allowed anyone to use such titles in their magazines or cassettes.

    By craving for titles, they have forced & threatened the Christians to address themselves as Pastors, which has now become a cult. Thus, they violate the command of Jesus Christ.

    Hence, in obedience to the command of Jesus let us call them as brothers rather than Pastors. The Pastors do not want you to know that you have access to the Most Holy Place. Why? because they want to act as middle agents and take your money.

    Remember, we all are brothers and priests. Only Jesus is our High Priest.


  359. HOW DOES SATAN TRAP WORKERS?

    If a worker teaches and trains the believers to depend on the Holy Spirit then the believers learn to start depending on the Holy Spirit.

    A believer who has learnt to depend on the Holy Spirit will not depend on pastors wholly for spiritual food and encouragement.

    However, what happens currently is that believers depend on workers and their Sunday morning sermons and bible studies. The believers find it very difficult to receive the spiritual food from the Holy Spirit directly as per 1 John 2:27.

    It is this dependency on workers that has become very easy for satan to deceive the believers with false doctrines. All satan has to do is to induce false doctrines in the mind of the worker. Then when the worker starts to preach that false doctrine all the worker-dependent believers believe that false doctrine to be a word from God.

    The next question is how do false doctrines enter the mind of workers? Workers who call themselves as full time pastors start focusing on believers for money and not on God. They start to feel insecure because they do not have a job of their own as Paul the apostle did.

    They pretend not to ask for money openly but in their hearts, they start lusting for the tithe money of the believers. They also cover up their lust for money by dressing themselves in white clothing displaying a false humility.

    Once they have started focusing on money in their hearts they start to cling on to the believer. How do they do that? They do that by making the believers to cling on to them.

    How do they make the believers to cling on to them? By doing the following:

    1. By preaching that they are melchizedek priests unbiblically and as to how great their calling is.
    2. By preaching about the great sacrifices they did to become a pastor.
    3. By preaching about their greatness of being a celibate worker.
    4. By speaking ill of other denominations.
    5. By creating a set of false doctrines just to show themselves to be superior.

    Thus, instead of glorifying Christ they have ended up glorifying themselves just to enslave the believers to themselves. All for money!!


  360. 1. I hear the Savior say,
    “Thy strength indeed is small;
    Child of weakness, watch and pray,
    Find in Me thine all in all.”
    * Refrain:
    Jesus paid it all,
    All to Him I owe;
    Sin had left a crimson stain,
    He washed it white as snow.
    2. For nothing good have I
    Whereby Thy grace to claim;
    I’ll wash my garments white
    In the blood of Calv’ry’s Lamb.
    3. And now complete in Him,
    My robe, His righteousness,
    Close sheltered ’neath His side,
    I am divinely blest.
    4. Lord, now indeed I find
    Thy pow’r, and Thine alone,
    Can change the leper’s spots
    And melt the heart of stone.
    5. When from my dying bed
    My ransomed soul shall rise,
    “Jesus died my soul to save,”
    Shall rend the vaulted skies.
    6. And when before the throne
    I stand in Him complete,
    I’ll lay my trophies down,
    All down at Jesus’ feet.

    1. I have decided to follow Jesus;
    I have decided to follow Jesus;
    I have decided to follow Jesus;
    No turning back, no turning back.

    2. Though I may wonder, I still will follow;
    Though I may wonder, I still will follow;
    Though I may wonder, I still will follow;
    No turning back, no turning back.

    3. The world behind me, the cross before me;
    The world behind me, the cross before me;
    The world behind me, the cross before me;
    No turning back, no turning back.

    4. Though none go with me, still I will follow;
    Though none go with me, still I will follow;
    Though none go with me, still I will follow;
    No turning back, no turning back.

    5. Will you decide now to follow Jesus?
    Will you decide now to follow Jesus?
    Will you decide now to follow Jesus?
    No turning back, no turning back.

    May God bless richly you and yours!!


  361. Follow Jesus not TPM and TPM workers.

    TPM creates false “pet” doctrines to create an identity for themselves.

    Trust in the Holy Spirit.


  362. Hiii,

    I like you christian guys struggling to establish their church is true. I thought christianity has same doctrines & bible. now i understood you are cheaters. you dnt have an identification yourself den why you are coming to convert hindus. please leave us. we have an identity & a great culture. we are not ethists. dont spoil our great culture & religion.

    Jai Ram


  363. Firstly Susan and Rachel was holding on to one subject… “criticism of tpm, believers and its workers… dont trust them, they are thieves etc etc…”

    Secondly… by debating and debating.. she reallised that all the pentacostals churches has some or the other things that are negative. So now she says.. DONT GO TO CHURCH…

    May be in the near future…. as per Word says, the knowledge will increase… and out of excess debating and open-mindedness, she would say, “Gos doesnt Exist…”.. This is sure to be a possibility….

    BEWARE FRIENDS.. these are not the discussions encouraged by the Holy Spirit.

    Bro Ram…

    Gospel is God’s search for Man… where as religion in Man’s search for God… Jesus came, died and got resurrected on the third day !!! THIS IS A FACT… !!! His birth, life and death was unique. And He’s going to come back very soon in the clouds…

    A day has to come when “Every knee shall bow, every tongue shall confess that Jesus is the Lord.” Dont be discouraged… if you really call upon Him diligently he will hear you and will answer you… Go through the testimony of “Pandita Ramabai”, “Vaman Rao Tilak”, “Pandit Ram Prakash Sharma (Born in Fatehpur Jail during India’s freedom struggle, Former MP, Bollywood actor, a successful Manager in the corporate world with Dalmiyas… and who was raised by Gandhiji himself)”, Sadhu Sunder Singh, Bhakth Singh, Sis Baljeet Kaur, and many more such Indians whom God called and seperated from this world for His sake.

    May God Bless You !!!


  364. Bro Ram,

    Following is the Testimony of ‘Pandit Dharm Prakash Sharma’

    http://www.sermon.net/sermoninfo.php?clientid=12756&sermonid=134080

    Jim


  365. Dear Jim,

    You seems to be a good christian. I am not a hindu fanatic but religious. I hate people who convert for any financial or other benefits. Im not against conversion. But how can a hindu tell an other religion is better when he is unaware of his own religion. First let him know what is hinduism, let him read our Holy books.
    I have read most of the Holy books including Quran & Bible. Of that I liked the most is our vedas & new testament in Bible. But my dear friend tell me honestly how many christians are following it. I guess maximum 1%. So then why can’t you first preach within your community before preaching others. First of all, show in your life, then in your family, then in your community. If so, others will come to you.
    Moreover most of the christians are not following Indian culture. They are following western culture especially girls. Girls flirting with guys, exposing themselves etc. We can’t tolerate this. You will call me fanatic for saving this great culture & religion.

    As Gandhiji told I like Christ but hate christians as they are unlike their Christ.

    Vande Matheram
    Ram


  366. Whether you beleive or not JESUS IS LORD


  367. Brother Ram,

    You will call me fanatic for saving this great culture & religion.

    Why should I call you a fanatic for saying this?? because wht you say is right… India is indeed unique.. with great culture and religion.. but I told you what religion is… Its Man’s search of God… Statements like “All the religion leads to same God, all the religions are different path leading to same God and blah blah blah…

    But Gospel is Man’s Search for God… Christ LIVES today and thats a FACT….!!! And you must reallise the judgement of the Lord will begin from the temple of the Lord (Church).. and its mentioned in the Bible… If Christians are not living a life Christ-Like, they will be judged…

    Bu the fact remains the same.. that Christ LIVES today and no man in the history of mankind has come upto the expectation of all the prophesies concerning the Son of God (Jesus), which was made around 800 yrs before His birth… His birth, life and death was exacltly as per these prophesies…

    And He’s coming back very soon. Dont look at Chriitians.. Look unto Christ and follow Him…

    YOU MUST READ “My Encounter with TRUTH” by Pandit Dharm Prakash Sharma, who was a Bibile burning activist as he considered this as a religion of white-people… I’m very sure its going to be a great eye-opener for you concerning Chritianity…

    Regards,
    Jim.


  368. Sorry for the mistake here from me… But Gospel is Man’s Search for God

    Actually its “Gospel is God’s search for lost man”
    -Pandit Dharm Prakash Sharma..


  369. Truth sounds bitter for TPM pleasers like Jim.

    This site is not for evangelism or gospel. Instead the purpose of this site is to discuss about TPM and its false doctrines.

    For evangelism and gospel there are many sites. You can go there.

    TPM talks more about sanctification but still is unable to sanctify itself from all the false doctrines.

    What is left of TPM is the “white dress” and the heart filled with all worker-glorifying false doctrines.

    Dear Friends, Sanctify yourself and preach the gospel in the villages. That is why God baptises believers with the Holy Spirit. To be witnesses all over the world.

    Just read one of the thousands of mails from a christian (already a blogger on Feb 22, 2009) about TPM:

    Hi ! Suz,
    Long since communicated with you. Thanx for those couple of info that you send, also i’ve been reading & knowing a lot about this cult…Hey ! i’d want to know if this is true that TPM’er dont ever Evangelize instead preach to the saved & baptised only.
    secondly, they hunt for souls from other churches & preach not the Gospel but the TPM doctrines & rebaptise them saying U can go 2 Zion from here.
    IS IT TRUE ??
    To my knowledge i have never come across any of those white robed Evangelising in Orrisa, Bihar, J& K etc….

    reply me soon,
    Joe


  370. Dear Susan,

    TPM don’t evangelise, Why because

    We are interested in quality and not quantity.

    “Present ever man perfect in christ Jesus.”


  371. Yes, TPM is interested in quality of believers to the extent they are enslaved to TPM and their false doctrines.

    For evangelism miracles must be seen. That needs the gifts of the Holy Spirit. TPM does not do evangelism because they do not have these. They can only preach in volumes!! And they call themselves as apostles!! That is strange.

    Apostles went around preaching the gospel with signs wonders and miracles!! They were not sitting and conducting marriage ceremonies for believers!!

    Even a sunday school student knows that 1 Corinthians 7 was written for christian believers. But TPM thinks that 1 cor 7 was written for workers and goes around stipulating celibacy for workers!! Very funny indeed!!

    The author of TPM “pet” doctrines like celibacy are founded by Pas. Alwin who was excommunicated from TPM for adultery.

    Know the truth guys!


  372. This site is not for evangelism or gospel. Instead the purpose of this site is to discuss about TPM and its false doctrines.

    This is not a site… but a blog. whatsoever… So you are telling me the purpose of this blog…

    Let me ask you one thing.. Whats the purpose of you being YOU?? balbbering around?? You very well know that you are doing Devil’s work by discussing these things due to which many souls like Ram Rao are getting confused…

    What will yo answer the Lord when He asks you how many souls did you win??? You’ll tell Him, “I spend all my life in accusing and blaming other Christian denominations thinking that I was acting as so called eye opener” ??

    Turm to the Lord Susan… its high time… YOU HAVE NO AUTHORITY TO JUDGE WHOEVER TPM IS… AS LONG AS YOU ARE A MERE HUMAN BEING JUST LIKE ANY OTHER ONE… LEAVE THIS JUDGEMENT JOB TO THE LORD…

    Truth sounds bitter for TPM pleasers like Jim.

    I know Susan… that truth is bitter for you that you are promoting devil’s work and that lucifer is using you very efficiently as his tool to spread bitterness, confusions, hatred, backsliding, divisions, and keeping GOSPEL AWAY FROM the gentiles… NOW THAT IS TRUTH.. IS THAT BITTER FOR YOU??? IT IS.


  373. Even a sunday school student knows that 1 Corinthians 7 was written for christian believers.

    David Raja bhai…

    So who says its not written for believers??? Read the first verse… “It is good for a man not to marry”… is that clear?? IT IS GOOD. So they chose the good part… Again read 6th and ,7th verse

    “6I say this as a concession, not as a command. 7I wish that all men were as I am. But each man has his own gift from God; one has this gift, another has that.”

    So its not a commandment.. so whos stopping you.. GO MARRY BOSS… And if you want to preach gospel in the village… go and preach boss.. who has stopped you??

    But each man has his own gift from God; one has this gift, another has that.”

    But there are BELIEVERS who has got the gift of remaining celibates like St. Paul and Jesus himself…

    Was Jesus married?? NO… whts ur problem if anyone has chosen to live like HIM??? Just because people like you cant be like them, finding faults with them??? [Unless u blive in Dan Brown's tale]

    The author of TPM “pet” doctrines like celibacy are founded by Pas. Alwin who was excommunicated from TPM for adultery.

    you are talking bout Allwyn-the fallen angel?? Do you know that the books written by him is still taught in bible colleges where your foolish pastors go and analyse (not study) God for 3 yrs doing thier so called BTh???

    For evangelism miracles must be seen. That needs the gifts of the Holy Spirit. TPM does not do evangelism because they do not have these

    I give a laugh on this.. How often have u been to a tpm church.. Do u even know the volumes of miracles that takes place in the church other than a volumes of preaching?? The difference is that we dont go around boasting and blabbering around like your churches do..

    And you are talking about the gift of Holy Spirit?? Do you even know the 7 types of gifts that you can recieve from the Lord?? Have you ever even talked to a tpm pastor about these?? They are not like your pastors who dont know how to “Walk the Talk, who preach something and act other thing… Who clap hands, crack vulgar jokes and laugh till tears roll down their eyes (I have seen them)…

    They go to villages because they get huge money from abroad.. you know they cant ignore such huge money.. they keep the best things for themselves and give the worst things (clothes, grocery, utencils etc) to the tribal people. THEY EVEN GIVE THEM MONEY AND BUY THEM INTO YOUR FOLD…

    WE NEVER DO THAT.. WE PREACH.. THAT WE MAY PRESENT EVERYMAN PERFECT IN CHRIST JESUS.

    David…. You say we dont evangelise? do you know we had a time when we had no churches in North India?? There are now more than 25 churches in Mumbai center alone… All Gujratis, Marathis, Sindhis, Kashmiris, Locals, Bengalis, and Hindis have found the New Life in Christ… !!!!

    AND YOU EXPLAIN US THE MEANING OF “EVANGELISATION”… Pitty on such perception of yours David..

    I pitty on your perception…


  374. Hi ! Suz

    To say that “one of the thousands who mailed me”, this is clear that Joe doesnt even know Susan in person… The salutation here “Hi ! Suz” itself reflects his character… as if Susan is His…. whatever !!!

    To my knowledge i have never come across any of those white robed Evangelising in Orrisa, Bihar, J& K etc….

    I have just one answer to this Joe…. tht in these states there are so many churches that there is an acute shortage of ministers to take care of these churches… Many from the backward classes and tribal people have accepted Christ as their Saviour and have turned to the Lord and are regular believers now…

    “WE PREACH THAT WE MAY PRESENT EVERY MAN PERFECT IN CHRIST JESUS”


  375. Hi All,

    I have gone to many countries in the world , never come accrossed a chruch with this concecrated doctrine.

    Churches nowadays is started with a business mentality.

    Our church workers have sacrificed there lives. Left father, mother, brother, sister , relatives, no job , no bank account, no assests , no wife, no children, nothing in the world.

    Can you live like this for one day in your life. This is a gift not possible by everyone.

    You have everything beside and behind and mocking at people who left everything for God.

    This is an evil spirit spoiling your life and character. I have seen many families and people, you speak again the workers have been destroyed . This will become a curse into the family.

    Please pray to get deliverance from this bad spirit, which will ruin your life.

    You must think that they are human being like us, they are not angels from heaven. Everyone has got there own weakness.

    Ofcourse, I also know , but we cannot speak against them. They are also bound to follow the rules of the church.

    The standard for your life must be based on bible and not on any human being or any other churches.

    Speak and collect good things for others, rather than having a contrart spirit, Which you are not going to get benefit in any way .

    Each one has got different gifts starting from evangelism to apostlelic . Everything ministry is important . In fact, evangelism is more important otherwise how the people in the world will get saved. We became christians because of the missionary from overseas.

    continue…..


  376. TPM promotes celibate worker’s intercession so that they can feed their stomach and have A/c cars and a carpet floored toilet.

    In Chennai TPM has just 21 churches in total. But other Pentecostal churches have 2,500 churches in Chennai alone. TPM came to Chennai in 1945 but other Pentecostal churches came after 1975.

    Thus, TPM is ineffective. Why? Because they do not teach the priesthood of believers as per 1 Peter 2:5,9. Instead, they keep bragging about their celibate consecration and their pride. God resists the proud.

    Do not be slaves to TPM workers. Instead, enter the Most Holy Place with confidence as per Hebrews 4:16 where the Father of Jesus dwells and talk to Him. Jesus tore the veil as per Heb 10:19 and He opened the way to the Most Holy Place. Brethren, you are better than Aaron.

    So do have relationship to God directly rather than fall in to the lie of TPM workers who make you dependent on them.
    Jesus did not die to give you middle agents. He died to give you His Father. Do not trust in Irumbuliyur convention just like catholics trust Velankanni.


  377. What Susan says is true.

    TPM is teaching you to choose the best part of remaining celibates. Which is why they get government licenses to conduct hundreds of marriages in “faithhomes” (marriage homes”. LOL!!

    On the one side TPM says that marriage takes a man away from love for God and on the other side they conduct thousands of marriages. Helps to choose better?


  378. In Chennai TPM has just 21 churches in total. But other Pentecostal churches have 2,500 churches in Chennai alone. TPM came to Chennai in 1945 but other Pentecostal churches came after 1975.

    Why this competitions David ???? Where in Bible its mentioned to compete within the house… ??? When the Desciples came to Jesus and told Him that there are other people casting out demons in Your name.. what shall we do to them??? Jesus said: “Those who are not against us are with us”

    tpm is not into some competitions…. so just forget about comparing other thousands of diluted and corrupted pentacostal churches (rather business houses) with just one tpm… and even if its into competition, its like a honour to be tpm on one side and a thousands on the other side…

    Thus, TPM is ineffective. Why? Because they do not teach the priesthood of believers as per 1 Peter 2:5,9.

    TPM is very much effective… We very much teach this doctrine… Who told you we dont?? The believers who acquire preisthood as per I Peter 2:5-9 are those believers who get the calling to be seperated from this world to serve God…

    Instead, enter the Most Holy Place with confidence as per Hebrews 4:16 where the Father of Jesus dwells and talk to Him.

    “Walk the Talk” David…. I wonder if YOU have ever done that… Scripture says that even I know about it.. every Christian knows about it… Theres no need to emphazise it. What matters is wheather you are bringing into ACTION what you PREACH… This is the difference between our pastors and others. You go to some Bible college and study God as you study physics or Chemestry and analyse Him rationally causing an increase in knowledge and intellect which in turn brings pride within you… But reflects NO Christ-likeness in your pastors…. Theres a difference between KNOWING God and ANALYSING God. The former part reflects the humbleness and meekness as of Moses which the Word demands from all of us… The latter part reflects your arrogance and competitiveness towards the kingdom of God…

    You dont really need to be a part of Bible college to know God… All you need is to be on the knees and pray with continued Bible reading.. God opens your mind of understanding and He speaks to you…

    So LEARN TO BRING INTO ACTION WHAT YOU PREACH….

    Do not trust in Irumbuliyur convention just like catholics trust Velankanni.

    Let me explain this to you with a practical example from my life… Now I’m a musician and play the guitar… which needs to be tuned to perfection after every performance… This is very important because the guitar cannot get tuned of its own.. I have to engage myself in tuning it… In the other words “I need to SET my guitar”…. Now this is what happens in our conventions year after year… We go there to GET our hearts SET or FIRM or TUNED back to the firmness and perfection of the WORD…

    We need grace every day to survive in this perishing world… Does any other pastor from your church get up early in the morning, take the names of every sinlgle believers in the Church and praise for them ??? Now this might not be important for you as long as you understand the depth of this concept.

    Dorothy,

    What Susan says is true.

    Even lucifer says she is right… That doesnt make her right.. so open your eyes and ears of understanding. Jesus said : “Those who are not against us are with us”

    conduct hundreds of marriages in “faithhomes” (marriage homes”. LOL!! LOL?? It means Laugh out loud?? Your remark here reflects the scornful spirit thats within you Dorothy… Humble yourself and know God.. For those who know God would never make such scornful remarks for sure..

    On the one side TPM says that marriage takes a man away from love for God and on the other side they conduct thousands of marriages. Helps to choose better?

    Theres nothing as one side and the other side here.. Its all bout gifts that you recieve from God. Marriage NEVER takes you away from God… and tpm doesnt teach anything contradictory like that… We have strong principles and doctrines which we cannot compromise and since we cannot compromise, all the other Pentacostal churches hates us.. Thats why even the Word says so…


  379. Hi all,

    i want to ask a question to Jim? R u a Christ-ian? If yes u will have a Christ like character, I’snt it a shame on you to say that silly statement, The salutation here “Hi ! Suz” itself reflects his character… as if Susan is His…. whatever !!!
    Hey! she’s my sister,.. MAN! i can call her Suz, or Suzie…Why does that hurt u?? If your mind goes that way ..err…i dont care.Is this wat is taught in ur TPM?? From the start i have noticed u have been senselessly Accusing and Abusing the owner of this Blog…is this according to the Word of Christ?? She has in fact many times requested..Pls dont insult me…Do u think quoting a scripture verse just for the sake of your happiness pleases God, no matter if any one is hurt? Never replying to the point, which has always been corrected by the moderator. Beating around the bush..Is this the teachings of your church??Doctrines,i mean.When u dont know to love with the love of Christ..This is wat happens,U reflect it in words & deeds.
    Again..i have been blessed by this blog…Lot of truth have been exposed Which no one neither Jim or any one biased to this sect can ever deny!!
    For all who follow the doctrines of the church pushing aside the doctrines of the Holy Spirit. I would say,Rev 18:4 – Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. (KJV)
    Amen!!be it so Lord..
    God bless our moderator.


  380. Jim,
    I have just one answer to this Joe…. tht in these states there are so many churches that there is an acute shortage of ministers to take care of these churches… Many from the backward classes and tribal people have accepted Christ as their Saviour and have turned to the Lord and are regular believers now…Totally against the Scriptures where Jesus says “Harvest is plenteous but laborers are few” Are u trying to be wiser than Jesus??

    “WE PREACH THAT WE MAY PRESENT EVERY MAN PERFECT IN CHRIST JESUS”
    Wat do u preach to be perfect ?? ur cultist doctrines??


  381. God bless our moderator.

    after saying all these… u say.. God bless the moderator… instead of saying “May God open her eyes and ears of understanding”… For unless she believes in One, she cant be blessed…. We are all children of God… for the concept of “Existence of God” is so simple for a child to understand in just 3 steps:

    1: “For this is how God loved the world: He gave his unique Son so that everyone who believes in him might not be lost but have eternal life. John 3:16

    2: This Christ gave His life on the cross as a sacrifice for the sin of the entire mankind so that you and me may be saved.

    3: He (Christ) is coming very soon to gather His children and we all must be ready to get raptured.

    For the moderator, she says, she needs proof, she wants God to reveal Himself to her (For this atleast she needs to believe theres One — 1st Step of faith). She says God cannot reveal Himself as He said that this truth is only for the poor and illetrate people and not for those who really search for the truth—

    WELL… You can’t please God the way Enoch did without some faith, because those who come to God must (minimally) believe that:
    A) God exists, and
    B) God is good to people who really look for him.

    That’s it. The “good news” is so simple that a child can understand it, and so deep that a philosopher (moderator) CANT. The Word demands our hearts to be as of a child to get an entry into the Kingdom of Heaven and not of a Philosopher.. “Blessed are the poor in spirit……. ”

    Do u think quoting a scripture verse just for the sake of your happiness pleases God, no matter if any one is hurt?

    The word of the Lord is as a two-edged sword… I dont quote the scripture for my happiness… but THAT IS THE TRUTH… Is it bitter??? may be IT IS… for YOU. I cant please human (you or the moderator or anyone) for the sake of human emotions. This would mean that if your hindu friend (an idolator)brings pooja-prasad for you, you’ll have it “just for the sake of his/her happiness”, ignoring the happiness of your Heavenly Father…

    This is ONE of the MANY doctrines which tpm doesnt compromise with any other churches or its doctrines…

    Totally against the Scriptures where Jesus says “Harvest is plenteous but laborers are few” Are u trying to be wiser than Jesus??

    How was it totally against?? I mean seriously.. what I said was exaclty as per Jesus said?? Didnt you read it properly??…. there are so many churches and less ministers to handle them… And the people are increasing on everyday basis and the workers are less… I mean… How do you percieve it??

    Wat do u preach to be perfect ?? ur cultist doctrines??
    I thought you read Bible… nyways read it fully u’ll know what we preach… .. It is Col 1:28

    “Him we preach, warning every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus. (Colossians 1:28).

    And Mr. Joe… One question for you… Are you a Christian and if yes, which church do YOU go to?? Tell me and I’ll give you the fortaste of cultist doctrines, and corruption which takes place there… (but u c… i’ll never do that cos that would erase away the difference between a tpm church goer and people like you)

    Hey! she’s my sister,.. MAN! i can call her Suz, or Suzie…Why does that hurt u?? If your mind goes that way ..err…i dont care.Is this wat is taught in ur TPM??

    YES…!!! that is taught in tpm…..> to use “complete salutations” for any young woman in the church or outside as “sister”.. “Sister Susan” and young or elder men as “Brother Joe” !!! NO shortcuts, if you really had Christ living in you, you would have never made a salutation of that kind.. even if that is OK for Susan, atleast on the public blogs or forum like these…

    This is again ONE of the MANY doctrines which tpm doesnt compromise with any other churches or its doctrines…


  382. “Walk the Talk” David…. I wonder if YOU have ever done that…

    Rachel… What so wrong bout the above statement?? Is it bitter in any way?? Theres no truth that is sweeter than “Jesus is coming Soon” !!!


  383. I have been reading the comments and the views and counter-views with a lot of interest, being extremely familiar with the TPM Church. Its teachings & doctrines are extreme and difficult. I may not agree with some of them, but what attracts me to the TPM Church is the love and dedication of the consecrated servants of God. Many of them were people like you and me with jobs and a future in the secular world, with the opportunity to marry, have their own families, earn money etc, but sacrificed their all to serve God their entire lives. It is a difficult decision which they have taken. They spend a great portion of their day in prayer and meditating on the Word of God. Most of them (there are black sheep in every organisation) are full of love. As a member of this Church, they have been upholding me with their love & fellowship. I can share any problem with them, and can expect them to sincerely pray and uphold me. To live selflessly for others is a nature that is found very rarely in this materialistic world. I have found it in the average TPM servant of God. I realise that this is a quality that God has placed in them. They have provided me with the spiritual food that I require, the guidance that I need and the spiritual satisfaction that has never made me to want to leave them.
    I understand that Susan and many others contributing to this blog, have an in-depth knowledge of TPM, and hence will agree with what I claim.
    I faced a death inducing sickness a few years back, and underwent a major surgery. Though the TPM doctrine does not promote taking medicines or surgery, there were many TPM workers who were fasting and praying for me. A few of them were in the hospital as I was having my surgery praying for me on their knees. I have seen God’s love in them. I may not agree with all their interpretations of the scriptures & their doctrines, but the God’s love that I see in them has compelled me to maintain a close fellowship with them.
    The foremost desire is to do God’s will, while here on earth, and go to heaven after my time here is over. Mistakes are found in all organisations and churches (including TPM), as they are made by man and run by men. I also realise that I am not perfect to judge others. I would like to remain in the organisation / church which would help me to achieve my objective /desire. With whatever knowledge that I have, I believe being in TPM will best help me to achieve it.
    An elephant can be described in many ways, depending on the angle from which you view it. I would like to be positive about the TPM Church, and look at its strong points, all the while placing my eyes firmly on my God and His precious Word.
    If I look at the negatives of TPM, and some of its difficult (maybe erroneous teachings!!!) I can easily leave this Church like Susan, Rachel & David have done. But what is the alternative? Is there anything else that can be better? I seriously doubt it. I would like to continue sailing in this ship to the other shore, unless I find a better / faster one.
    Love to all.


  384. Susan, Rachel & David,
    I can undestand the doctrinal differences that you have with what TPM preaches. I have some of the same doubts & questions that you have. Taken as an entire package, have you found a better place than TPM to direct a person toward heaven, and prepare him / her for His coming? Is there an alternative better than TPM? Please let me know.
    I don’t believe that being a member of a particular Church like TPM can take one to heaven. God who looks at our hearts has His own standards of judging & evaluating man. The emphasis on santification and holiness that TPM promotes gives an individual a better chance to strive towards holiness, and obtain mercy from God, which alone can take us there.
    I may know more skeletons than what you may know about many things / persons in TPM. But I also know many good things in TPM, and the number of sincere and devout people here. I would like to place my mind on what is pure & good, ignore the bad & unacceptable, humble myself and somehow maintain peace with God, lead others to this peace, and be prepared to hear the trumpet when it shall sound on that day.
    Love,
    Danny


  385. TPM SHOULD HATE LUST FOR MONEY

    INSTEAD TPM SHOULD TRAIN THE BELIEVERS TO DO THE FOLLOWING:

    1. TO LISTEN TO THE VOICE OF THE HOLY SPIRIT.
    2. TO LEARN TO SPEAK TO THE HOLY SPIRIT.
    3. TO LEARN TO ENTER THE MOST HOLY PLACE WHERE THE FATHER OF JESUS WAITS LONGINGLY.
    4. TO LOVE THE FATHER AND ASK FOR THEIR NEEDS DIRECTLY.
    5. TO HEAR THE MESSAGES DIRECTLY FROM THE HOLY SPIRIT.
    6. TO SHARE THE MESSAGE WITH THOSE WHO NEED COMFORT.
    7. TO GO TO VILLAGES AND PREACH THE GOSPEL OF CHRIST.
    8. TO KNOW THAT THEY ARE PRIESTS WITH A CONFIDENT ACCESS TO THE MOST HOLY PLACE WHICH EVEN AARON FEARED TO DO.
    9. TO TRUST JESUS AND NOT TRUST THE MIDDLE AGENCY OF TPM WORKERS .

    INSTEAD OF LUSTING FOR THE BELIEVER’S MONEY AND KEEP THEM AS “DEPENDENT BABIES”, WHY NOT TRAIN THEM ON THE ABOVE? REVIVAL WILL COME IF THIS IS DONE.


  386. I read the posts here and the posts of Rachel and Susan was really inspiring.

    It is true that we in TPM need depend excessively on workers for everything like prayer, word of comfort, intercession.

    I think we need to grow to depend on the Holy Spirit more. I learnt something.

    Babies need nursing mothers when their biological mother is dead. Similarly, Danny, whoever he is, seems to ask for another pastor from another denomination to suckle upon as an alternative to TPM.

    Hope Danny realises that the Holy Spirit is the best alternative to TPM as per 1 John 2:27.


  387. soumitha,
    The Holy Spirit is God. The Church is not God, and can never be an alternative to God. It only provides the fellowship & guidance required to seek, taste & worship God.
    If you have been attending TPM meetings, esp. tarrying meetings, you will know the importance given by this Church to the Holy Spirit. Thousands & thousands are being anointed by the Holy Spirit in these Tarrying Meetings.
    Dorothy,
    Love of money is indeed evil. Don’t generalise please based on your experience with a few workers of TPM. As I mentioned in an earlier post of mine, there are black sheep in every organisation. Love of money is a widespread phenomenon in this world, and it is but natural it is found in many people even in the church who are not yet perfected. That does not make all people of the Church evil. I have heard more teachings on this evil in the TPM church than in other places, and met a number of people who are indeed leading a truly consecrated life.
    Danny


  388. the best way is to crucify the author in one cross and susan in another cross so that we can worship both and follow the teachings of both.


  389. Danny

    We TPM people have received the Holy Spirit and speak in tongues a lot. But I think our understanding of the Holy Spirit and the way He works is highly doubtful.

    Moreover. just remember that millions of non-TPM believers are being baptised by the Spirit. God moves more outside TPM than inside.


  390. Danny,

    There is a truth stated in this blog site. TPM founders promised to live in rental houses and so they called it faith home.

    But now the name remains and the substance has vanished. So the lust for money and lands and buildings is not individual but that which concerns the church as a whole!!


  391. I don’t want to say anything. But please visit spiritlessons.com

    U will know waht is life after all

    thanks


  392. Sowmitha,
    It is true that millions not in TPM are getting anointed, and it is a matter of great joy! God does not work through a single church or person; but you cannot deny that thousands have, and are, receiving the anointing even in TPM. If God does not have His eye upon this Church, can it happen?
    If one receives the anointing, the Holy Spirit will guide him or her “into all truth”. So those who receive the anointing, irrespective of where they receive it, will be led into all truth, as long as they are led by the spirit.
    Though properties are bought, please note it is not in the name of any individual but in the name of the Church. All workers are transferred from faith-home to faith-home, and whatever they buy in one place is left behind in that place for the next batch of workers to utilise. They move to the Fath-home to which they are transferred not knowing what awaits them there. Is it not faith life? As the church has no fixed source of income, but depends on tithes and offerings (which was ordained by God in the Old Testament), are they not practicising faith-life?
    Danny


  393. Danny,

    There is a TPM trust which has crores of rupees. Is that faith? The need for a trust came because lands and buildings were purchased. This violated the committment ofthe founders.

    Founders committed to live in rental houses and that is why the name “faithhome”. Trust money supplies money for land purchase and building construction.

    Moreover, the false doctrines to create an identity for TPM is the one as Susan says enslaves the believers. We need to think more on this.

    Like for example, the melchizedek calling which I begin to think is unbiblical because there is no verse that says that celibates are melchi priests.

    In fact as is stated in this blog, every christian is a priest as per 1 Pet 2:5,9 and Rev 20:6 and that too with a far better calling than Aaron the High Priest.

    It is true that we have entrance to the Most Holy Place with CONFIDENCE as per Heb 4:16 and Heb 10:19 which Aaron did not have. I never knew this amazing truth till I visited this blog.

    So rather than glorify and brag about workers, I would suggest you and everyone to be equipped with the word and serve God as per John 14:12.

    The theme I think of this blog site is to be prepared for the Lord’s coming and more importantly win souls by desiring for the gifts of the Holy Spirit which is given to every christian who desires.

    So let us stop focussing or defending TPM workers and start focussing on Christ and what we can do for God and His kingdom.


  394. Dear Sister Sowmitha,

    Trying to put some light on your doubts…

    There is a TPM trust which has crores of rupees. Is that faith? The need for a trust came because lands and buildings were purchased. This violated the committment ofthe founders.

    Founders committed to live in rental houses and that is why the name “faithhome”. Trust money supplies money for land purchase and building construction.

    Answer to your question: YES IT IS FAITH.

    Now.. Violation of the founder’s commitment: Pas. Paul was even married… So what do you say about that?? I need to know your opinion on that.

    You say about preaching in villages and public places… This is the main reason why many of the independant churches today are falling apart… They have no complete compliance with the law of the land, and go against the principalities and powers of the land, which the Word of God clearly states as against His Law…

    These days.. anyone goes to a Bible College, analyses and studys God (rather than having personal relationship with Jesus and knowing Him), and come up with their own vague ideas, mis-intepretations and personal choices of doctrines and begin thier own church without any complete compliance with Law of the Land…

    NOTE: If you want to preach gospel, conduct outreach activities, conduct open air conventions etc.. you need to have permissions, sanctions, there are many legal compliances which takes place behind the curtain of which we are not even aware of… To do all these activities, you need to have a LICENCED and REGISTERED IDENTITY from the goverment (compliance to the changing- law of the land; identity as “TPM”)—> Remember… the founder was a human not God… Daniel also faced the situation where He was to go against the LAW of GOD (not human) when the Law of the land came in the opposite way, and was cast in the den of lions when resisted…

    I think this clarifies your doubts about the “laaaands, BUiiilddingsss” etc… atleast its not the outcome of some foriegn aid..

    Moreover, the false doctrines to create an identity for TPM is the one as Susan says enslaves the believers. We need to think more on this.

    Think more??? what- the identity or false doctrines ?? Since its cleared to us why is it so, there no need for us atleast to think about these meaningless issues, because Jesus isnt coming to pick up those who go to some tpm church.. or in the other words, the second coming of our Lord isnt just for tpm people but for all those who has….. (u knw better).

    So rather than glorify and brag about workers, I would suggest you and everyone to be equipped with the word and serve God as per John 14:12.

    I dont knw wht does that mean by ” being bragging about workers cos we never do that” and to be precise about the latter part … the verse here is

    “John 14:12-14 (New Living Translation)

    12 “I tell you the truth, anyone who believes in me will do the same works I have done, and even greater works, because I am going to be with the Father. 13 You can ask for anything in my name, and I will do it, so that the Son can bring glory to the Father. 14 Yes, ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it!”

    — you can go through any other version or edition…. It specifies “ANYONE who believes in Me” or “The ONE who believes in …” BUT NOT “EVERYONE”. St Paul again says in I Cor 7:6 Chapter that

    “6I say this as a concession, not as a command. 7I wish that all men were as I am. But each man has his own gift from God; one has this gift, another has that”

    SO ITS ALL ABOUT GIFTS that one has it and another doesnt. Its as simple as that !!!

    Again to serve God, preach etc etc as I mentioned earlier, you need to have LICENCED…. (read above)… Those who can.. they can go ahead.. nobody’s stopping… Susan, Rachel, David wants to do that?? No one’s stopping or opposing.. Please carry on the God’s work we are with you, for great is the reward in heaven for those who win souls for His Kingdom (but certainly not for creating confusions, hatred, divisions among the bretheren, and keeping the gospel away from the gentiles as in case of brother Ram Rao, mis-interpreting it as the process of “eye opening”).

    So let us stop focussing or defending TPM workers and start focussing on Christ and what we can do for God and His kingdom.

    So shall l expect the same from you all ?? I urge you all to come out of it now please… and focus on Christ…

    May God bless us All !!!

    Brother in Christ,
    Jim.


  395. Hi Jim and Sowmitha,

    Daniel went to jail. Hope our TPM workers go to jail for truth rather than break the founders committment.

    No government law forces us to buy lands and buildings or no government forces us to violate the founders’ committment. It was our choice which is pitiable.

    I think there is nothing wrong with foreign aid as long as they are tithes. God does not differentiate between local money or foreign money. Money is money.

    I appreciate your statement that Jesus loves people of all denominations and considers them.

    We need to give thought the false doctrines of melchi priesthood and “only unmarried are apostles” which I begin to realise is the most damaging one and slightly boastful.

    It is true, Jesus never stipulated, as Susan claims, that apostles should remain unmarried or put asunder their wife. Apostles have a choice, as Susan rightly points out, to remain in marriage as per 1 corinthians 9:5 or be in a job as Paul the apostle was a tent maker by profession.

    Concerning John 14:12 and Mark 16:17 Jesus never says that only unmarried apostles can perform miracles. It is ttrue that God wants to use believers to perform miracles for His glory. He even used a donkey to speak to Balaam.

    Your interpretation to mean that “anyone” is not “everyone” is wrong. Anyone means those believers who desire to seek the gifts of the Holy Spirit as per 1 corinthian 14:7 will do miracles.

    Let us put faith to ask and receive the gifts of the Holy Spirit. Let us not doubt that God will not give us gifts of healing and prophecy or the nine spiritual gifts.

    Let every believer desire gifts of healing and prophecy and get licenses. Let God’s kingdom grow.

    Let us discuss and face the various false doctrines bravely and yeild to be sanctified. God can use us only if we are sanctified from the false doctrines which make us focus on workers rather than on Christ.


  396. Dear Sister Dorothy,

    No government law forces us to buy lands and buildings or no government forces us to violate the founders’ committment. It was our choice which is pitiable.

    YES.. the goverment FORCED us to violate the founder’s commitment. I think all of the “Licence and registration”, “Compliance with the changing-law of the land”, “blah blah blah” matter I posted earlier was not clear enough. May God open your inner eys of understanding. Again you are sticking on to one point mentioning about violation of founder’s commitment although you know he was a mere human being. We never wanted to go against the principalities and powers of the land. Thats all.

    Dorothy.. btw, which church do you go to?

    Your interpretation to mean that “anyone” is not “everyone” is wrong. Anyone means those believers who desire to seek the gifts of the Holy Spirit as per 1 corinthian 14:7 will do miracles.

    Its the same interpretation that you are trying to explain me here.. you say “those believers who desire….” NOT EVERYONE.

    I think there is nothing wrong with foreign aid as long as they are tithes. God does not differentiate between local money or foreign money. Money is money

    Money BAD that is from corruption and money is GOOD that is from hard earned tithes. There is a difference between “aid” and “tithes”. God definitely differentiates betweeen the both. Tithes are the hard earned money of the individual believers for the church, which God commands them to pay to the Levites (or the one whos serving the Lord in His temple). Aid comes as a part of fund raised by people or some organisation in richer countries which comes into the hands of corrupted pastors and institutions and more than 50% of this aid are shared among the top management’s pocket for their basic needs first. Children’s education, Doctors’s bill, Lawyer’s bill, groceries, covering bank-loan, education fund etc etc… This BIG corruption takes place in the exact sense if you really have an inside out experience of these religious institutions world wide.

    Apostles have a choice, as Susan rightly points out, to remain in marriage as per 1 corinthians 9:5 or be in a job as Paul the apostle was a tent maker by profession.

    Question asked in 1 Corinthians 9:6 about being in Job while doing ministry:
    Or is it only Barnabas and I who have no right to refrain from working for a living? 7 Who serves as a soldier at his own expense? Who plants a vineyard without eating any of its fruit? Or who tends a flock without getting some of the milk?

    Answer to this question in 1 Corinthians 9:13th:
    Do you not know that those who are employed in the temple service get their food from the temple, and those who serve at the altar share in the sacrificial offerings? 14In the same way, the LORD COMMANDED that(S) those who proclaim the gospel should get their living by the gospel.

    This time THE LORD COMMANDS… its not a concession of St. Paul.

    St Paul again says not to put obstacles in the Gospel proclamation (wife, family, children, debt, credits, money, relative, kin, social responsibilities, bank-balances, savings, loans, fights, pride, blah blah blah)

    1 Corinthians 9: 13:
    “Nevertheless, we have not made use of this right, but we endure anything rather than put an obstacle in the way of the gospel of Christ.

    People are not ready to endure these things as St. Paul explains. Rather they pick up verse as per thier choice… As Susan says, Apostles have a CHOICE to remain in marriage. Christianity is not bed of roses… Its a narrow path- NO CHOICES.. But then if you are using HIS word as a tool to find the CHOICES as per YOUR convenience, its up to you all to decide what that wud be called.

    St Paul Says again in 1 Corinthians 7:7:
    “I wish that all were as I myself am. But each has his own gift from God, one of one kind and one of another.”

    St Paul Says again in Acts 26:29:
    And Paul said, “Whether short or long, I would to God that not only you but also all who hear me this day might become such as I am—except for these chains.”

    he again says here in 1 Corinthians 9:27
    “But I discipline my body and keep it under control, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified.”

    Thats what I tried to explain in my earlier posts too “Walk the Talk”.. Bring into action what you preach…

    Its not just about leading a church BUT living CHRIST, LIKE CHRIST, pure and holy, without blemish. And since they are SO, they are more qualified than anyone to lead the church. That’s all.

    Concerning John 14:12 and Mark 16:17 Jesus never says that only unmarried apostles can perform miracles. It is ttrue that God wants to use believers to perform miracles for His glory. He even used a donkey to speak to Balaam.

    What you say is true. I should not be telling this to you but then… Let me go ahead without mentioning the name and place… one of our pastor, a beautiful man of God, is married, serving in ___ Faith home. He healed a deaf hindu boy last week… The young boy was deaf since his birth. Now the entire kin (some 8-12 individuals) of that boy comes to our church. This is the way we proclaim the word of God through wonders and miracles, adding more and more souls to the Kingdom of God. But what about the Word which tells in Mathew: 19:12??

    “For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother’s womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven’s sake. HE THAT IS ABLE TO RECIEVE IT, LET HIM RECIEVE IT.

    Apostles have a choice, as Susan rightly points out, to remain in marriage as per 1 corinthians 9:5 or be in a job as Paul the apostle was a tent maker by profession.

    For your kind information, if you read th entire chapter, you’ll notice that these are mere questions being asked NOT a concession as in case of St Paul, or a commandment.. JUST A FEW QUESTIONS. Answers to these questions are answered in the same passage from 15th verse onwards… READ THEM for yourself CAREFULLY…. I’ve explained a bit in the above lines.. Read on your Bible with prayer…

    Brother In Christ,
    Jim


  397. Hi Jim,

    Dorothy’s mail was pretty reasonable. But it is strange that Jim considers the founders to be mere human beings!!

    Are the present lot better than them? No way.

    Moreover, Jim has not specified whether Government forced TPM to buy lands and buildings as Dorothy rightly pointed out?

    What Dorothy I think means to say that every believer must be taught to desire the gifts of the Holy Spirit (which I start hearing in this blog quite a lot!) and to depend and serve God. Dorothy’s suggestion is good.

    Foreign aid refers to money coming from overseas and not all are misused. Many TPM pastors had bank accounts as susan points out and had left with such a lot of money. So misuse happens even in our church nto to speak of the innumerable adultery. TPM needs to be sanctified.

    As seen in this blog, 1 Timothy commands workers to be married and knowing home management. As Moses, Aaron, apostles were all married. God uses everyone to accomplish His goal.

    In fact as it is pointed out in this blog, more work is accomplised by married ministers worldwide and TPM’s work is relatively very small. We need to think about that. So God can use married and employed people as well greatly.

    TPM, as rightly pointed out, should not stipulate celibacy and not to work as there seems to be no such stipulation in the Bible. Even our Founders were married. As Dor pointed out correctly, Paul the apostle worked as a tent maker. (I checked this to be true!!)

    As read in this blog, Paul when he talks 1 cor 7, it looks very reasonable to assume that he writes it to common believers and not to full time ministers. In such a case then all believers as per TPM should be unemployed and unmarried!! (which if we have to “walk the talk” have to follow)

    Paul calls believers as “virgins for Christ”. So this implies that believers who work and marry can still be virgins for Christ.

    Regarding the qualification to lead, I think, it is the Holy Spirit who leads and no human. Ofcourse we need pastors just as kids need mother’s breasts. But if a child does need a mothers breast all thorugh its life then there is something totally funny and wrong!! lol. TPM believers as susan points out need to more depend on the Holy Spirit rather than workers.

    As susan points out rightly, (I questioned her), she and me also personally know hundreds of TPM pastors who have never ever done a miracle. Hence as Susan points out, claiming that TPM workers are exhaustively apostles is nonsense.

    God likes more to see the believers, in these end times, as per John 14:12, to rise up, desire the spiritual gifts, and be used by God. Only the catholics seem to be more focussed on the priests and popes. As pointed out in this blog, Let us not emulate the catholics.

    Let us look to our desire to seek spiritual gifts and our miracles which God does through us rather than talk about something else.

    Regarding the eunuch teaching of Jesus, Jesus never stipulated it for workers. He meant that such a gift is given not just for the workers. So connecting eunuch gift to “apostleship” is not seen in the Bible. Even believers can be eunuch’s.

    I think as clearly in this blog, GOD IS NOT INTERESTED IN EXTERNAL THINGS OF RELIGION LIKE CELIBACY OR WHITE DRESS. GOD SEEKS EVERY BELIEVER TO SERVE HIM RATHER THAN JUST HEAR SERMONS EVERY SUNDAY.

    SO LET US LOOK TO GOD RATHER THAN THE WORKERS AND SEEK THE GIFTS OF THE HOLY SPIRIT.


  398. Hi All,

    This will be my last post in this website & Im nt going to come back to see ur stupid discussions. So if anybody want to reply me plz do so in my mail ramrao999@gmail.com with their address. This blog is created by an ethist & everybdy must critisise her views even hindus. Instead u all are fighting each other ( Im nt sure this will come in the blog or will be removed by chitra)

    Ramesh

    I dnt believe Jesus is Lord. Instead He is the founder of Christainity & was a very good preacher who spread the teachings of Love, Truth, Forgiveness etc.

    Susan

    Im nt here to hear your evangalism & dnt thnk im searching for that. The knowledge of Bible & Quran I acquired myself. Till nw nobody shws de guts to evagalise me, then he wont do it to anybdy. christians like u who doesnt knw to speak & act are making tensions & it will affect the community as a whole. you are living in Hindustan (place of Hindus) & u r a Hindustani. so please do show little manner to us. otherwise u will suffer in ur near future. u know my best family frnd is a christian & he is frm south india. he is the only non-hindu who has entered my house till nw. our family is like 1. it is nt religion… but relation which will last.

    Br. Jim

    I liked ur approach very much. de way u talk 2 me shws u r matured. i will surely read de books u told. but u must also knw more abt our religion also.. u must read atleast 2 vedas. keep in touch.

    Jai Ram


  399. Hi Ram,

    I want to put the things straight forward so that you can understand you pathetic status.

    All Hindu godesses on this earth are evil spirits. These so called ‘Hindu gods’ which are evil spirits live in dark places, and they given given different names , which innocently you are worshipping. None of these cursed spirits can come against my LORD AND SAVIOUR JESUS CHRIST.

    If you do not beleive Jesus , Your eternal destination for the rest of your life is ‘HELL’ burning fire. It’s your choice and you have chosen it.

    Every minute atleast one person on this earth , is accepting JESUS as saviour. I have seen many person talking like you, including sadhus and brahmins but finally they have become better christians than us and some even church pastors.

    JESUS is THE SON OF THE LIVING GOD , WHO IS HOLY AND THE PATH TO ETERNAL GLORY .

    Only JESUS spoke about forgiveness on this earth, because He has all the authority and power to forgive sins.

    BIBLE clearly says that Jesus did not come to establish a religion but show us the path of salvation, forgiveness and HE is the passport to Heaven.

    Again I say, You may be the anyone on this world , but without accepting Jesus you cannot go to Heaven.

    With or withour your knowledge, You come to this site because you have already accepted JESUS as your savior, and you want to confirm.

    Read BIBLE everyday, all your questions will be answered by the Holy Spirit.

    All the ramayana and Mahabarath are only bad stories in Volume , Ram went in search sita, and sita went in search of ram…these are evils spirits have destoyed the Humanity.

    BUT BIBLE IS HOLY and written by the HOY SPIRIT, those who read are purified, healed, joy and peace abound them . You will delivered from all the curses and finally reach Heaven.

    Ram, Thanks for accepting JESUS as your saviour and LORD, you go and evangelise this to you Hindu Friends. Live for Jesus and there is nothings better than this on this world.
    Get involved in a church and bring salvation to many souls who does not know JESUS. Praise the LORD.


  400. Brother Ram,

    Thanks. I would definitely read vedas as per your advice and I’m sure I’ll learn a great deal about the Indian history, tradition, culture, its greateness, and unique status that it enjoys worldwide. I’m really proud of that fact. But Bro Ram, it will not and never lead me to my creator, salvation, and the eternal life. Religion isnt gospel and Gospel isnt religion. You may remain a Hindu and still follow Christ and His teachings and as you know more and more about Him you’ll feel like theres nothing in this world that is more important than Him including your past faith and customs. You’ll feel the thirst for hearing His voice (“literally”- I mean it and sure you’ll be able to because He LIVES.) and gradually you’ll understand “religion isnt Gopspel” in its true sense.

    No where in the Bible it is mentioned that Christ came to this earth for establishing a religion as you mentioned in your posts. Christians are in the true sense is “New testament Jews”, Disciples were mocked by the people as “Christians” first in Antioch and thats how it became a name of religion. In the Middle East, around Israel and Egypt. After Jesus came, died and ascended to Heaven, many Jews converted to a new religion called Christianity because they had seen the long-awaited Messiah that the “Jewish religion” still waits for today. In the Medieval times, Europeans and Catholicism made Christianity what it is today as you can see…

    The term religion is used to distinguish rather differentiate people but gospel unites people in Christ. The gospel-revolution that John Wesely brought in England was tremendous. He helped abolish slavery in England and devoted all his energy to the overthrow of African slave trade. England’s stature grew to such an extent, that the history of England is divided into two sects “Before Wesley” and “After Wesely”.

    I dont know how wud you take it bro Ram but then as a matter of fact, I must tell you that we strongly disagree with the concept of idol-worshipping as even Catholics do by keeping the idols of Mother Mary and Baby Jesus. Many of our Indian brothers think that Christianity is the religion of whites and its from west. Darn.. Westeners became a blot on Christianity. Jesus Christ was never an American but an Asian just like you and me. He was not white but of an Asian Jew race.

    Its not about conversion brother… No one can convert you and no ne should dare to do that… Its about “Change of the Heart” as ‘Pandit Dharm Prasad Sharma’ says and also mentioned in Psalms 51:10. If you go on to read the book of Proverbs in Bible… you wont feel like stopping.. The verses are so beautiful, it will linger in your thoughts while you walk, sleep, work and literally the whole day and the same will reflect in your life… you’ll cherish them for a lifetime.

    As for me (I wont say Christians as it encompases those who spread strife and hatred), I have an eternal hope after death. Life for me is not over after my physical death. This is the reason brother.. why Christians are eager and desperate to convey Gospel to every one that comes their way…

    Christianity doesnt give importance to materialistic blessings of this world as any other religion does. It talks about the persecutions, sufferings, and walking through narrow way being a true Christian. I would like you to know Swami Vivekananda’s remarks about Christianity. He said “Masihiyat nangi talwar ki dhar men chalne ki manind hai” meaning- “Christianity is like walking on the edge of the bare sword”.

    Its not easy to be a true Christian and that is the reason why many Christians themselves doesnt go exactly as per the Word and pick up the verses as per their own CHOICES rather than understanding the Book of Law and they commit sins. They commit adultary saying even the old testament saint Abraham commited extra-marital sins, bare Ishmayeel, they drink saying even Moses drank wine when came out of Israel, they grow hair and walk like backstreet westeners saying all the saints including Jesus grew hair, they wear jewels and strange apparels saying even Rebecca was gifted with a gold ring etc etc…

    Since Bible is the “Book of Law”, any ONE doctrine or rule can be bent to any extend as per people’s interpretation and their CHOICES which SUITS their LIFESTYLE. Instead of learning from them who are consecrated servants of God, who are lead by Holy Spirit. People rebel agaisnt the church, and as per their own CHOICES they go and begin thier own church. This is reason why protestants alone are having more than a 100 denominations within themselves and debate about thier beliefs and doctrines as you can see in this blog.

    They dont understand the baseline difference between evangelisation and taking care of the sheeps (believers- i.e taking care of the church). Where as its the responsibility of believers to evangellise people, who are equipped with holy spirit, under the guidance of Holy Spirit and bring them to Church for understanding of deeper truth and mysteries about the kingdom of God.

    Some facts with a pinch of salt:
    More believers of Christ have died for Christ in the 20th Century than in all the other 19 centuries combined. The World Evangelisation Database has calculated that since AD 33 at least 40,724,000 Christians have been martyred. Of those, 26,625,000 were killed FOR THEIR FAITH between 1900 and 1990—most by communist governments. Every day an average of a thousand believers DIE for Christ world-wide— mostly at the hands of Muslim or Marxist persecutors.

    Brother Ram, I’m pretty sure, there is definitely a BEAUTIFUL purpose of GOD concerning YOU. Jesus truly loves you.

    Looking forward to hear from you. You can reach me at jimkjoy@gmail.com. We’ll talk in the outskirts of this blog, which spreads strifes and divisions rather than spreading gospel to lost souls.

    Brother in Christ,
    Jim.


  401. Dorothy’s mail was pretty reasonable. But it is strange that Jim considers the founders to be mere human beings!!

    Are the present lot better than them? No way.

    Moreover, Jim has not specified whether Government forced TPM to buy lands and buildings as Dorothy rightly pointed out?

    What Dorothy I think means to say that every believer must be taught to desire the gifts of the Holy Spirit (which I start hearing in this blog quite a lot!) and to depend and serve God. Dorothy’s suggestion is good.

    Foreign aid refers to money coming from overseas and not all are misused. Many TPM pastors had bank accounts as susan points out and had left with such a lot of money. So misuse happens even in our church nto to speak of the innumerable adultery. TPM needs to be sanctified.

    As seen in this blog, 1 Timothy commands workers to be married and knowing home management. As Moses, Aaron, apostles were all married. God uses everyone to accomplish His goal.

    In fact as it is pointed out in this blog, more work is accomplised by married ministers worldwide and TPM’s work is relatively very small. We need to think about that. So God can use married and employed people as well greatly.

    TPM, as rightly pointed out, should not stipulate celibacy and not to work as there seems to be no such stipulation in the Bible. Even our Founders were married. As Dor pointed out correctly, Paul the apostle worked as a tent maker. (I checked this to be true!!)

    As read in this blog, Paul when he talks 1 cor 7, it looks very reasonable to assume that he writes it to common believers and not to full time ministers. In such a case then all believers as per TPM should be unemployed and unmarried!! (which if we have to “walk the talk” have to follow)

    Paul calls believers as “virgins for Christ”. So this implies that believers who work and marry can still be virgins for Christ.

    Regarding the qualification to lead, I think, it is the Holy Spirit who leads and no human. Ofcourse we need pastors just as kids need mother’s breasts. But if a child does need a mothers breast all thorugh its life then there is something totally funny and wrong!! lol. TPM believers as susan points out need to more depend on the Holy Spirit rather than workers.

    As susan points out rightly, (I questioned her), she and me also personally know hundreds of TPM pastors who have never ever done a miracle. Hence as Susan points out, claiming that TPM workers are exhaustively apostles is nonsense.

    God likes more to see the believers, in these end times, as per John 14:12, to rise up, desire the spiritual gifts, and be used by God. Only the catholics seem to be more focussed on the priests and popes. As pointed out in this blog, Let us not emulate the catholics.

    Let us look to our desire to seek spiritual gifts and our miracles which God does through us rather than talk about something else.

    Regarding the eunuch teaching of Jesus, Jesus never stipulated it for workers. He meant that such a gift is given not just for the workers. So connecting eunuch gift to “apostleship” is not seen in the Bible. Even believers can be eunuch’s.

    I think as clearly in this blog, GOD IS NOT INTERESTED IN EXTERNAL THINGS OF RELIGION LIKE CELIBACY OR WHITE DRESS. GOD SEEKS EVERY BELIEVER TO SERVE HIM RATHER THAN JUST HEAR SERMONS EVERY SUNDAY.

    SO LET US LOOK TO GOD RATHER THAN THE WORKERS AND SEEK THE GIFTS OF THE HOLY SPIRIT.


  402. Dear Brother Iace,

    Let us not bring disrepute to our TPM’s name by writing like ,”they may clean their chappels, kitchen, toilets and cloths of TPM workers.”

    Brother, when we discuss with sisters and brothers of other denominations, we need to show love and not hatred.


  403. Moreover, Jim has not specified whether Government forced TPM to buy lands and buildings as Dorothy rightly pointed out?

    Why should Jim specify?? Is Jim CEO of tpm or some press-conference representative?? Everyone knows infact it needs common-sense that when the ministry grows, it needs worship places too. Ministry thus far has grown so much.. that harvest is plenteous but laborers are few.

    What Dorothy I think means to say that every believer must be taught to desire the gifts of the Holy Spirit (which I start hearing in this blog quite a lot!) and to depend and serve God. Dorothy’s suggestion is good.

    I reffered to wht Sister Dorthy said and not what YOU THINK she said. Even if you or Sister Dorothy think that way, then who will teach them to desire the gifts of the Holy Spirit depend on it and server God by evangellising people? Ofcourse those who are ministering God.. Who else do you think will teach… YOU?? Every believer in tpm have the liability to evangellise people far and wide depending and equipped with Holy Spirit and bring them to church where deeper truths and strong doctrines are further taught for strengthening thier spiritual life and to present them perfect in Christ…. that is what we are all taught here in tpm. I dont know who tells you all that crap and wonder how you percieve things.

    Many TPM pastors had bank accounts as susan points out and had left with such a lot of money. So misuse happens even in our church nto to speak of the innumerable adultery. TPM needs to be sanctified.

    HAD?? Even everyone of us including YOU were born in sin. Do you still discuss about that past failures and sins which has been already forgiven?? when they step into ministry they have to leave all of that. DID YOU KNOW THIS FACT?

    Here we were talking about money.. All of a sudden you thought about adultery.. Mind you.. when a worker commits than sin, he’s ex-communicated. And morover.. nyways we are all discussing about the doctrinal differences here.. WHY ARE YOU JUDGING THEM?? WHO ARE YOU JUDGE ANYWAY? LEAVE DOING GOD’S JOB… may be otherwise you’ll find yourself in tears and humiliated in the Lord’s day of Great Judgement.

    As Dor pointed out correctly, Paul the apostle worked as a tent maker. (I checked this to be true!!)

    That means you are not a regular Bible reader. I knew that St. Paul was a tent maker when I was in kg, studying in Bhutan where my mom was a teacher. No one needs to tell you or so called “rightly pointed out” to know these simple facts about the aposltes at this grown up age !!! I feel shame of myself posting in this blog. Which church did you complete your sunday school from, If it was in tpm who was your teacher?? OR DID YOU EVER EVEN COMPLETE SUNDAY SCHOOL?

    In this way, when you are not even partially aware of the Lord’s Word, whatever told to you becomes an ultimate truth for you, without any cross references. btw you never mentioned what I “pointed out” earlier in my posts. I’ve pasted once again FYR.

    1 Corinthians 9:13th, 14th (READ 14TH verse CAREFULLY):
    13Do you not know that those who are employed in the temple service get their food from the temple, and those who serve at the altar share in the sacrificial offerings? 14In the same way, the LORD COMMANDED that(S) those who proclaim the gospel should get their living by the gospel.

    This time THE LORD COMMANDS… So Jim rightly pointed out or… what do you say about that??

    As seen in this blog, 1 Timothy commands workers to be married and knowing home management. As Moses, Aaron, apostles were all married. God uses everyone to accomplish His goal.

    I dont know how many times should I “rightly point out” WHAT the Lord’s word says about it and to WHOM?? Here it is again pasted for you if you missed out or if the level of your perception doesnt permit you to digest the truth.

    1 Corinthians 9: 12:
    “Nevertheless, we have not made use of this right, but we endure anything rather than put an obstacle in the way of the gospel of Christ.”

    Again he says in 1 Corinthians 9: 15:
    “15But I have not used any of these rights.”

    NOT USED THE RIGHT to work, marry (to take a believing wife along with) etc etc…. as mentioned rather asked in 1 Corinthians 9: 1 onwards… BECAUSE IT WILL CAUSE HINDRANC IN THE GOSPEL WORK as mentioned in the same verse. –“But we did not use this right. On the contrary, we put up with anything rather than hinder the gospel of Christ.”

    People are not ready to endure these things as St. Paul explains. Rather they pick up verse as per thier choice… As Susan says, Apostles have a CHOICE to remain in marriage. Christianity is not bed of roses… Its a narrow path- NO CHOICES.. But then if you are using HIS word as a tool to find the CHOICES as per YOUR convenience, selecting 1 or 2 verses, its up to you all to decide what that wud be called.

    St Paul Says again in 1 Corinthians 7:7:
    “I wish that all were as I myself am. But each has his own gift from God, one of one kind and one of another.”

    St Paul Says again in Acts 26:29:
    And Paul said, “Whether short or long, I would to God that not only you but also all who hear me this day might become such as I am—except for these chains.”

    he again says here in 1 Corinthians 9:27
    “But I discipline my body and keep it under control, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified.”

    Regarding the eunuch teaching of Jesus, Jesus never stipulated it for workers. He meant that such a gift is given not just for the workers. So connecting eunuch gift to “apostleship” is not seen in the Bible. Even believers can be eunuch’s.

    Ofcourse yes.. ur right not just for the workers but also for the believers, then these believers become workers. Is it not seen in Bible in the verse Math 19:12??? “HE THAT CAN RECIEVE IT LET HIM RECIEVE”… It was the teaching of Jesus who himslef wasnt married; this doctrine was simplified further by St Paul and Timothy. Is it not seen in Bible?

    As susan points out rightly, (I questioned her), she and me also personally know hundreds of TPM pastors who have never ever done a miracle. Hence as Susan points out, claiming that TPM workers are exhaustively apostles is nonsense.

    You know hundreds of tpm pastors?? Eve I dont know that much…!!! and those who have not performed even a single miracle?? You’ll neve HEAR of any miracle being performed here in tpm cos we dont advertise as many churched do. During our conventions, photography, videography etc are strictly prohibited. Diseases like cancer and aids are being cured miraculously. People are getting to know about the wondrous things of the most powerful God and getting to the fold more and more on everyday basis.

    As read in this blog, Paul when he talks 1 cor 7, it looks very reasonable to assume that he writes it to common believers and not to full time ministers.

    So if it looks reasonable why dont you too feel its written for you? After all you are ignoring saying that it is ONLY for tpm, although its wirtten in the Lord’s Word. Its called “Making sure of your calling” It is written for every believers. Even the workers are believers in Christ.

    And about the book of Timothy, about “Bishop should be husband of one wife”, I’ll post it differently so that you can read it carefully not mixed up creating confusions.


  404. Dear Sister Sowmitha,

    Let us not bring disrepute to our TPM’s name by writing like….

    You are already bringing disrepute to OUR tpm’s name by discussing about their shortcomings rather than looking on to its positive side and LIVE a POSITIVE LIFE. You are creating a havoc here by joining hands with those who advocate AGAINST going to church and are themselves non-church-goers.

    Dont try to evade away from my question… I again ask you this…”Which tpm church do you go to”??? And if you want to bring reformation why are you so afraid to talk to the pastor of your church rather than discussing it on the public internet blogs like these?? Are you interested in seeking attention by joining hands with them who think they are smart by quoting some verses here and showing off thier disguest towards tpm church just because of some bitter experience there??

    Leme know this first.. “Which church do you go to”?
    Untill you tell me this, I’m straightaway going to ignore all your posts ending up in quenching your own thirst of frustation and bitter exp that even you might have tasted in tpm because of its strong and strict doctrines.


  405. When the founders have made a committment God honors the committment by providing places to worship. The successors need not have to grow smart beyond God and their founders.

    Deeper truths does not mean false doctrines like celibate apostleship.

    Jim seems to be concrened about corruptions in other religious groups and criticises other denominations and when he does so he forgets about the judgement day. At the same time he reminds us of judgement day.

    Judgement day is for those who preach false doctrines and calls them deeper truths and those who defend those workers. Judgement is not for those wh stand to speak the truth.

    The apostles had a choice to work and marry. But sadly TPM does not give that choice to workers. This as susan rightly points out is unbiblical!!

    Eunuch teaching was not given to believers who become workers. Jesus never said so. It was given as a gift to anyone not just workers.

    As susan points out rightly, (I questioned her), she and me also personally know hundreds of TPM pastors who have never ever done a miracle. Hence as Susan points out, claiming that TPM workers are exhaustively apostles is nonsense. (The issue thus is not whether miracles happen or not but the claim of exhaustive apostleship for TPM workers!!)

    Jim says, “You know hundreds of tpm pastors?? Eve I dont know that much…!!! ” Jim’s statement makes one think whether Jim is a grandfather for all of us??

    Jim has accepted finally that 1 cor 7 is for all believers. If so he has to tell TPM to stop getting marriage licenses and stop conducting marriages and stop making TPM buildings as marriage conducting halls.

    No one here is a non-church goer. You wrongly assume like that. Your rude statements really has irked many. You bring disrepute to TPM. Stop doing that brother.

    Let me ask you Jim. If you try to counter the truth in this blog as if you are very concerned about truth why don’t you accept the truth and tell your pastor to stop conducting marriages as they believe that marriage will lead a person away from Christ’s devotion?

    I think Jim has a bitter experience with truth. What TPM has is quite a lot of false doctrines dressed as pharisaic godliness. I was sure not convinced by your replies to Susan and Rachel both in scriptural content and in attitude. You are certainly not from TPM but some outsider pretending to be TPM.


  406. Sister Sowmitha,

    Once after salutation, you dont need to mention my name every now and then. it makes you appear highly immature while having a discussion.

    Deeper truths does not mean false doctrines like celibate apostleship.

    All that I referred from the Word regarding the “celibate apostleship” in all these posts I think wasnt enough for you to understand. Let me paste it up again “just for you”

    1 Corinthians 9: 12:
    “Nevertheless, we have not made use of this right, but we endure anything rather than put an obstacle in the way of the gospel of Christ.”

    Again he says in 1 Corinthians 9: 15:
    “15But I have not used any of these rights.”

    NOT USED THE RIGHT to work, marry (to take a believing wife along with) etc etc…. as mentioned rather asked in 1 Corinthians 9: 1 onwards… BECAUSE IT WILL CAUSE HINDRANCE IN THE GOSPEL WORK as mentioned in the same verse. –”But we did not use this right. On the contrary, we put up with anything rather than hinder the gospel of Christ.”

    People are not ready to endure these things as St. Paul explains. Rather they pick up verse as per thier choice… As Susan says, Apostles have a CHOICE to remain in marriage. Christianity is not bed of roses… Its a narrow path- NO CHOICES.. But then if you are using HIS word as a tool to find the CHOICES as per YOUR convenience, its up to you all to decide what that wud be called.

    St Paul Says again in 1 Corinthians 7:7:
    “I wish that all were as I myself am. But each has his own gift from God, one of one kind and one of another.”

    St Paul Says again in Acts 26:29:
    And Paul said, “Whether short or long, I would to God that not only you but also all who hear me this day might become such as I am—except for these chains.”

    he again says here in 1 Corinthians 9:27
    “But I discipline my body and keep it under control, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified.”

    NOW IF YOU ARE REFERRING TO 1 Timothy 3rd CHAPTER,

    “If anyone sets his heart on being an overseer,[a] he desires a noble task. 2Now the overseer must be above reproach, the husband of but one wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, 3not given to drunkenness, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. 4He must manage his own family well and see that his children obey him with proper respect. 5(If anyone does not know how to manage his own family, how can he take care of God’s church?)”

    It is said, if anyone sets his heart i.e, wants to be a leader of the church if already married. you can check out in any edition of any version (KJV, , NIV, ESV etc..) it is mentioned as “husband of one wife”. No where it is mentioned as a compulsion AS “SHOULD BE MARRIED”.

    Timothy is conveying this message to those who are already married and got the calling to serve the Lord.

    Let me explain this to you…. For eg:

    If I go to a net cafe, I see the board written as “Please leave your footwear out”. According to the instruction, I’ll take out my footwear and go in.

    Now suppose I’m not wearing any footwear.. what do you expect me to do?? GO TO A SHOP, BUY A SET OF NEW FOOTWEAR FOR MYSELF, COME BACK TO REMOVE AND GO INSIDE????

    The Bible says in 1Timothy 3:2 that bishops and elders should be “husband of ONE wife”. So we see that monogamy is a holier way and spiritual leaders should be exemplary in this. Polygamy thus is the PERMISSIVE and not the perfect will of God as leaders of the church.

    After this explanation, if you are not able to digest the truth, if its said that the “bishops should be husband of ONE wife”, does that mean that the believers can have more than one??!!!!

    I hope its clear atleast now about the “celibate apostleship”.
    YOU ARE AGAIN TRYING TO EVADE MY QUESTION.. WHICH CHURCH ARE YOU FROM??? I DISAGREE WITH YOUR SAYING THAT EVERYONE HERE ARE CHURCH-GOERS… SUSAN HERSELF ADVOCATED AGAISNT GOING TO CHURCH IN MANY OF HER POSTS…


  407. Sister Sowmitha,

    The apostles had a choice to work and marry. But sadly
    TPM does not give that choice to workers.

    CHOICE TO MARRY?? Well… there no CHOICES in the narrow path and strict doctrines… can u digest that?? NO?? leave it.. Many people CANT.. so they are left with no choice than to blabber around accusing and blaming them…

    Eunuch teaching was not given to believers who become workers. Jesus never said so.

    Jesus never said so??? Is it?? Jesusu said, “HE THAT CAN RECIEVE IT, LET HIM RECIEVE” If you cudnt recieve the meaning of it, then pray to God to open your eyes of understanding or else leave it and remain grudging, blaming and murmuring about it….

    If you try to counter the truth in this blog as if you are very concerned about truth why don’t you accept the truth and tell your pastor to stop conducting marriages as they believe that marriage will lead a person away from Christ’s devotion?

    You said you ar from tpm. WHY DONT YOU DO THAT??? I ALREADY KNOW WHT THE TRUTH IS.. I DONT HAVE TO ASK ANYONE OR GET THE CLARIFICATION… As far you are concerned, you need an explanatory teaching of Bible when you were not even aware that St. Paul was a tent-maker by profession. And if you think that only Susan can teach you Bible, well… then I dont know what to call that as…

    I think Jim has a bitter experience with truth

    If you cant digest the truth, its not my problem. Its the issue with your perception-level and rebel-spirit of devil which does not allow you to digest the truth… Truth is always bitter but no truth is sweeter than the fact that “Our Saviour is Soon going to appear in the clouds”.. Again this truth is sweet only for them who are ready for the rapture… Is this truth sweet for you??? ASK YOURSELF… and prepare yourself.

    Jim says, “You know hundreds of tpm pastors?? Eve I dont know that much…!!! ” Jim’s statement makes one think whether Jim is a grandfather for all of us??

    Well… I didnt really mean that… If you can name 100 pastor of tpm along with thier respective fathhomes, without referring a database, I would admit that you are my grandmother !!! HAPPY???


  408. Jim confuses 1 cor chapter 7 to be meant for workers. Actually it was written to believers.

    Neither Paul nor Jesus Christ commanded anyone to separate married couples. Only TPM does that unbiblical thing.

    TPM founder Raman Kutty Paul was married and exercised the CHOICE of an apostle to marry.

    Paul the apostle also did his work and earned money.

    Still Raman Kutty and Paul were called as apostles. But now TPM stipulates celibacy for apostleship which is totally unbiblical.

    Paul commands that those who are married only know about a family and so could manage a church effectively. Jim seems to have forgotten that.

    TPM believers need to come out of the habit of suckling the workers for spiritual food. They need to learn to hear the voice of the Holy Spirit.

    Bible has given choice for an apostle to marry and work. TPM cannot deny that choice. They have no such authority. Even the TPM Founder was married and had children in the faith home.

    Jim has to learn to understand the fact that TPM cannot stipulate beyond the scriptures and beyond the TPM founder Pas. Raman Paul.

    TPM BELIEVERS NEED TO LEARN TO ENTER THE MOST HOLY PLACE WITH CONFIDENCE AND LISTEN TO THE FATHER OF JESUS.

    TPM BELIEVERS NEED TO UNDERSTAND THAT THEY ARE ROAL PRIESTS AS PER 1 PET 2:9. EVEN AARON ENTERED THE MOST HOLY WITH FEAR. BUT WE TPM BELIEVERS CAN ENTER WITH “CONFIDENCE”. WE HAVE A BETTER CALLING THAN AARON.

    LET US THEREFORE LOOK TO GOD RATHER THAN A BUNCH OF WORKERS WHO MIGHT ANYTIME ELOPE WITH SISTERS OR KICK A PASTOR LIKE PHILLIP CHANDAPILLAI WHO WAS KICKED BY PASTORS AND HE EVENTUALLY DIED. LOOK TO CHRIST!!


  409. Sister Sowmitha,

    So the Moderator is on your side to delete all my posts… CONGRATULATIONS !!! I feel so happy, feel like leaping for joy for the reproach in proclaiming the truth.

    ANYWAYS.. TRUTH CANT BE HIDDEN… THE MORE YOU TRY TO SUPRESS IT, THE MORE STRONGLY IT WILL REVEAL ITSELF IN ITS TIME.

    Hmm…

    The “celibate aposteship” is strongly recommended as per Bible for those who really wish to serve the Lord and is the perfect will of God concerning spiritual leaders as I explained in my earlier posts.

    1 timothy chap3rd is for them who got the calling after thier wedding; “should be husband of ONE wife” otherwise it would have been a LAW or a COMMAND as “SHOULD BE MARRIED”….

    Otherwise, if you say that it should be, then you are looking for the choice. I also percieve it as “if the BISHOP should be husband of ONE wife”, THEN MAY BE…. “THE BELIEVERS IN YOUR CHURCH CAN HAVE MORE THAN ONE WIFE” what do you say ABOUT THAT… GOOD???? You percieve it that way AS PER YOUR CHOICE, and I percieve it as my way…

    BUT REMEMBER… ITS NOT MY WAY OR YOUR WAY… ITS THE SPIRITUAL WAY AS PER THE PERFECT WILL OF GOD CONCERNING THE EXEMPLARY SPIRITUAL LEADERS.

    Timothy is CLEARLY conveying this message to those who are already married and THEN got the calling to serve the Lord. EVEN TPM HAS MARRIED PASTORS…!!!! BUT THEY ARE NOT ALLOWED TO KEEP THIER WIFES ALONG WITH THEM. THEY ARE POSTED IN DIFFERENT PLACES. If you ask why so, Read:

    1 Corinthians 9: 12:
    “Nevertheless, WE have not made use of this right, but we endure anything rather than put an obstacle in the way of the gospel of Christ.”

    Again he says in 1 Corinthians 9: 15:
    “15But I have not used any of these rights.”

    NOT USED THE RIGHT to work, marry (to take a believing wife along with) etc etc…. as mentioned rather asked in 1 Corinthians 9: 1 onwards… BECAUSE IT WILL CAUSE HINDRANCE IN THE GOSPEL WORK as mentioned in the same verse. –

    ”But we did not use this right. On the contrary, we put up with anything rather than hinder the gospel of Christ.”

    coming back to the topic: Let me explain again which I’ve alreay explained earlier too… For eg:

    If I go to a net cafe, I see the board written as “Please leave your footwear out”. According to the instruction, I’ll take out my footwear and go in.

    Now suppose I’m NOT wearing any footwear.. what do you expect me to do?? GO TO A SHOP, BUY A SET OF NEW FOOTWEAR FOR MYSELF, COME BACK and then REMOVE AND GO INSIDE????

    IN THE SAME MANNER, IF A PERSON ISNT MARRIED AND WANTS TO SERVE THE LORD, HE/SHE SHOULD STEP INTO MINISTRY BARE FOOTED… IT DOESNT MEAN GO, MARRY AND THEN STEP IN.

    SO HERE THE CONCEPT OF “CELIBATE APOSTLESHIP” IS CRYSTAL CLEAR… ANYMORE DOUBTS??? DO LET ME KNOW.

    Even I got disturbed when Susan, for the first time, quoted me those verses from the Bible.. I took time, I read those portion, consulted with the senior members of the church and pastors, meditated on it and it was revealed that those were just a few doubts NOT a commandment or a concession “clarifications to these doubts are given in the following verses very precisely”


  410. TPM WORKERS ???

    ZION ( Glorious things are spoken of thee)

    “And I looked, and Lo, a Lamb stood on the Mount Sion, and with Him an hundred and forty and four thousand, having His father’s name written in their foreheads (Rev 14:1)

    Mount Zion, is the eternal dwelling place of God, and the throne of His heavenly kingdom. We are now seeking to answer the age-old question as to who are the 144,000 that will be eternally with God in Zion (Psa 15:1; 24:3). We have considered that their possessing the Father’sname written in their foreheads speaks to us of how the 144,000 are a special possession of the Father. This elite group, in addition to being redeemed by the blood of the Lamb, were also “redeemed from the earth” and also “redeemed from among men.” These 144,000 servants of Gods are servants to all humanity and love of all man kind equally. This is a nature of God Himself, and a nature that we should endeavor to emulate in this prejudicial and divided world in which we live. True servants of God give their first, fullest and highest devotion of God alone before giving it to any man in this world. This applies even to their closest faily members and friends. It can therefore be seen that they are redeemed from among men.
    Jesus- The everlasting father
    Rev 14:1, it was the Father’s name that was written in their foreheads. This also speaks to us of the godly and noble qualities and natore of a Father that are seen in the lives of the 144,000. God is known as a Father (Jer 3:19; 31:9; Mat 6:9). This is due in part of His being the Creator of all things, and the ultimate Giver of life to all (Acts 17:28-29). His fatherhood reflects His love and care for His creation. Although the expression “God the Father” refers of the first person of Trinity.
    Fatherly Interaction —
    Some may think that, in order to be devoted entirely to God and attain Mount Zion, one would require nothing short of a complete separation from mankind. There are religious groups known for monastic lifestyles where they seek solitute, remain exclusive, and hedge themselves away from the problems and people of this world. They belive that through such separations they will come closer to God. However, this was not the manner of Jesus’ earthly life, and this is not the way of a true father.
    These 144,000 padi the price in order “to follow the Lamb”. they will be found with Him eternally on that glorious mountain of the Lord. “singa, O barren , thou that didst not bear; break forth into singing, and cry aloud, thou that didst not travail with; for more are the children of the desolate than the children of the married wife, saih the Lord” (Isa 54:1-10). tn them is perfected the beautiful nature of a father, and that, in part, is why Mount Zion is called :the perfection of beauty,” the most wonderful place in all of heaven.Thre, thoughout eternity, His servants will see Him and His face, and continue their fatherly ministry among the redeemed in the everlasting glory and joyful presence of God (Rev 22:3-4).

    Praise the Lord.


  411. hi all praise the lord,
    can anyone tell me where i can download messages of pastor don spiers.


  412. can anyone tell me where i can download pastor don spiers messages


  413. Hi all!

    First of all it is a shame for Christians to criticise each other!

    Now comin to susan

    I bet you dont know anything about the true TPM/CPM life.
    I bet you even didnt went to any of their meetings!
    second it a stupid thing to think, that all the TPM/CPM believers wear onl white clothes. I am a beliver of that assembly in Germany it is called Neue Testament Kirche
    And to your surprise i am not a Indian or a Sri- Lankan, I am a german girl who by gods mercy got saved as I was in despair like Rachel. I was an atheist, a smoker a drinker, i went to partys but I never had real pleasure. Satan always keeps his people ( those who are unsaved ) busy, only not to take care and start to think about their eternal purpose caus he know if they are doin he will loose them caus there will come to the thought where I will be in eternity. So the devil will be exposed if thet happens and more people will turn to God.

    Apart from that I know workers of TPM and I can tell u that never befor I met people with such a peace. If you speak to them you will get peace automaticaly. It does not mean, that we are worshipping our workers, but God put them into his Glorious ministry to teach us more about Jesus and eternal life and they give us help also to go forth in the spiritual state.

    All of their words will comfort you. Who else is praying for you very earnestly if you have a big problem? God made us a big congregation with lot of branches in the entire world. All of us will pray for you. It s not that only workers are praying we as belivers also concerned about every lost soul ( which means all those who didn´t eccept Jesus Christ as their personal Saviour).

    another thing was for me it was amazed to see how different they are from other churches I have seen.
    First time I entered the meeting the belivers and workers were praying on their knees and speaking in tounges ( which is the evidence of having received the holy spirit ) at first it was funny for me but after a while I myself started to fill in the spirit and speak unknown tounges. The people are so warm and welcoming, I mean in the beginning they didnt knew me but they where so friendly. Some of you will think now, that this is the way they are winning the people but I tell you this was 4 years ago and still they are warm and welcoming.

    We do wear simple and live simple. It is not only because of culture the Workers and believers of Tpm Church wear white in white, it is to show the purity which they are desiering. In europe or other non Asien countries. Once a senior worker, who came from India to England was going to viisit a house so she was wearing a whit colour Sari and went on the steet. Next minute a car came stopping next to her and the man inside is asking her to climb in, because she looks like a widow. so that´s the reason in Europe for example we dont wear white in white.

    At the same time, i am going through lot of reproaches because non af the days i am going out in trousers
    people realise I am different I am always wearing skirt and for me to feel good it mus be over th knees, which means near to the anker bone.
    By the way you may think I am a old person but I am just 22 and from my age of nineteen I only wear skirts and blouses.

    another point even though I was adicted to the TV God delivered me from it, now 4 yaers I am living without TV.

    If you want to know why i can tell you because TV watching is Idolatry because the most of the population of this world spends more timeon the TV than anything else. If you know any TPM churches or their branches you ask for the leaflet ” is TV harmful” there you will find lot of sientific arguementsd why TV is a problem.

    I dont want to exhort myself as a better person than you are, I am maybe more worst than you but i know that my Lord will help me and finally take m, when he comes. I dont want to condemn any of you if you thought with some of my talks i did I ask you and Christ for pardon.

    Finally I want to end by quoting a bible verse for all those who yearn for acceptance, love and hope “Ask and it shall be given you; seek and ye shall find; knock and it shall be opened unto you” Mathew 7:7 and specialy for you rachel is this one ” I am the way, the truth and the life, no one can come to the father but by me” so soon or later you will aknoledge the crown you have given up by rejecting God, his son, and his holy Spirit

    may God bless you and all those who are reading my comments


  414. to say one last thing about workers concerning their opinion for marriage. first of all the workers are dedicating their life by free will, not by forcements. they have decidet to live for the truths and serve full time. can you tell me somebody who can serve full time if he has wife or children? always you will have the need to provide money and food etc. for your children, even for your wife. I am a married person, I know about this life.

    So there are couples which are married but they agree with each other to not to life a husband and wife relationship it means they are going to serve maybe in different places but are then no more husband and wife but Brother and sister because they dont maintain fleshable ( sexual ) contacts.

    The truth is, all the TPM workers are married, they are married with the heavenly bridegroom Jesus Christ. The church is called the Bride of Christ not the wife of christ, that means we on that glorious day will become his wife, but we need to get ready for the marriage supper of the Lamb/ Christ/ Bridegroom. It meansin eternity I will be married to Christ and will live and reign with him in his glorious Kingdom.

    Another thin I want to refer to same writings like TPM workers do seperate marriages. All those who are married and joining the fulltime ministrys have chosen by their own to be no longer called as husband and wife, that I explained up already and by the way Workers doesnt choose the people for the fulltim ministry God chooses them first off all you need a calling from God personally then God will confirm his calling again and again finally those who want to obay the calling fill the formulars to join the fulltime ministry. Pastors are praying for that matter and in a occasion like International Conventions the pastors ( filled with the spirit ) will lay hands upom those ho are choosen, cause God is guiding them, and anointing them for the ministry

    the pastor alwin problem was simply to call into one word it was pride.

    He was amighty by God used worker until he became proud and coukdnt agree with the doctrines like for example TPM songs singing. The workers are not allowed to sing alone, even if they have the biggest talent in the world because why? because not to get proud. What make the devil and FAllen Angels falling? Pride bacause Satan ( former Lucifer) wanted to exalt himself over the most high God.

    Finally as I told pleas dont fight each other or when you as Christians ( Jim ) answer, try to not to get angry within yourself. we know as Gods children we need to fell pitty for the lost souls not anger if it is not so Jim may God forgive me and you as well for accusing you falsly


  415. Okay with Regard to CPM/TPM Teachings, Can someone clarify the following Bible Verses/Questions (I am not a TPM Believer)

    1. For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother’s womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven’s sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it. (Matthew 19:12)
    Who are these people : “which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven’s sake”

    2. Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel; 1 Peter 3:3?

    3. I have seen and heard in Sri Lanka that some CPM believers have passed away without taking proper medical treatment.
    But at the same time can you prove that whoever is taken to a Doctor, will be healed? Why does Hospital have a morgue?


  416. To all the faithfuls of TPM

    Read John 7-11

    Please stop trying to fight for TPM or for anybody but as Jesus said cry for yourselves and your children. No good will come out of this except that you will lose peace of mind as well as your soul. Please cease all form of communication with this blog as this blog is being created by Christain turned atheist.

    To Susan and other Christains Believers

    Read Acts 5:26-40
    38And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought:
    39But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God.
    I see you have lot of hatred against TPM. Perhaps they might have hurt you or maybe not able to meet your requirements. I ask on their behalf to please forgive us. I hope God will open your eyes to see the anger, hatred and envy in your life against other people or group and take step to rectify it for your good. It will only harm you but will not change anyone else.

    If you do not like the teaching or misinterpretation of Bible by the TPM group do not join them but follow your own churches or teaching. If you have questions please have the courage to contact the pastor of the church personally.

    To the creator of this blog:

    I believe you are happy with the way things are going in this blog (as you expected). You have been successfull with few people by creating division among Christain by pitting them against TPM and thereby creating hatred, anger, envy and all kind of evil thoughts against the Christain community. I am not sure who is responsible for this – whether you or the spirit within you.

    One last reference. Revelation 22:11-12
    11He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
    12And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be


  417. Hi all,

    After sometime I am commenting here.

    I want to say Amen to what Bro said.

    When I first saw this blog my feelings were gushing that somehow I want to defend the faith that Lord has given me. I am very much blessed by the Doctrines of TPM. That s the reason why I commented before. But as the days went by the Lord asked me to refrain from what I am doing here. Hence I became a silent spectator of this debate.

    Even now, I am not defending any of the TPM’s Doctrine. As it is the word of god it will defend itself. I wanted to acknowledge what Bro said. Thats it.

    I just re-post what Bro said

    “Please stop trying to fight for TPM or for anybody but as Jesus said cry for yourselves and your children. No good will come out of this except that you will lose peace of mind as well as your soul. Please cease all form of communication with this blog as this blog is being created by Christain turned atheist.”

    Read Acts 5:26-40

    “38And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought:
    39But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God.
    I see you have lot of hatred against TPM. Perhaps they might have hurt you or maybe not able to meet your requirements. I ask on their behalf to please forgive us. I hope God will open your eyes to see the anger, hatred and envy in your life against other people or group and take step to rectify it for your good. It will only harm you but will not change anyone else.

    If you do not like the teaching or misinterpretation of Bible by the TPM group do not join them but follow your own churches or teaching. If you have questions please have the courage to contact the pastor of the church personally.”


  418. Dear Susan, Rachel

    Can I know, why are you so back of TPM??? There are many other denominations in Christianity!!!!!!

    I smell some fishy here.

    May be you are inadvertently trying to market TPM and its doctrines!!!!

    I am contactable on jacob@patelbrass.com

    jacob


  419. The truth is that TPM is a dangerous church. I attended “New Testament Church”, the one in Chicago, back in the early 1980’s. I knew many of them – Bro. Don Spiers, Greg, Carlton, Matthew, Chuck, etc. and other “pastors” who came from the other states, India, and Sri Lanka.

    Doctrinally, they are unsound, especially in their views of the Tabernacle and how it depicts where Christians will go (New Earth, New Heaven, Zion). Soteriologically, they are unsound as well, teaching a skewed version of salvation, that separates men from seeing God, unless they are willing to live as “eunuchs” for the kingdom. They misconstrue verses, such as John 3:3,5 to mean something which the early church never taught. The fact is that one can study the writings of the early church fathers, those who were taught by the Apostles to see that none interpreted these verses and others to mean what TPM teaches. What TPM teaches regarding salvation are “doctrines of men” (Matthew 15:9) and not of God.

    There are other issues as well.
    How they separate married couples, so they can “consecrate” their lives is very unbiblical (1 Timothy 4:1-3). During the time that I was a member, the church decided who could marry and who shouldn’t. Some were arranged marriages (in keeping with Indian customs), but others were advised against it.

    Although they do not, expressly, tell their members not to go to doctors, they implant the idea that one isn’t in God’s perfect will if they do see a doctor. They often use 2 Chronicles 16:12-14 to make a case against seeking doctors, saying that one will be “perfect” if they trust the Lord for healing, but they don’t pay attention to good Biblical hermeneutics or exegesis considering Scripture states that Asa’s heart was “perfect all his days” (1 Kings 15:14; 2 Chronicles 15:17). This means that Asa was “perfect” even when he sought the physicians. Evidently, TPM’s view of perfection is different from the Biblical view. Furthermore, they ignore the culture of the times or their history, considering that the “physicians” that Asa sought were not the type of doctors you see today. These were pagan priests who used occultic practices to “heal” people. Yet, TPM fairs no better, considering they induce a subliminal pressure by claiming that those who seek doctors aren’t being completely faithful to God. Their faith isn’t “perfect.” Because many who ascribe to their doctrine compel themselves to have this type of “faith”, as a result, many have died needlessly. All they needed to do was see a doctor. In the New Testament Church located in Franklin Park, IL, I went to the funeral of a dear sister whose family I’ve known for many years. She had died from cancer. All the details that I learned, from speaking to church members, seemed to indicate that she didn’t see a doctor. How does someone who is dying from cancer NOT see a doctor??? Some years back, her husband was dying from encephalitus. I went to their home to see that no one was doing anything about it. I got a friend of mine, a paramedic, to come to the house to examined him. Her husband agreed to go to the hospital only after he was told that he would be dead by morning. All the “Faith Home” ministers who were present acted as if it were a crime for him to go. I couldn’t believe it! The irony of the whole thing is that there are some practicing doctors who attend the church. The hypocrisy of the whole thing is that there are men and women in TPM, who wear glasses. By their own standards, is this an imperfect faith? Amazing!

    Back in 1987 my daughter, who was six weeks old at the time, contracted pneumonia. Because I was such a faithful member of the church, I didn’t take her to the doctors. The “Faith Home” came and they prayed, encouraging us to have faith in God, but she got worse. We took her to the emergency room only to find out that she might not make it through the night. I was crushed! Thank the Lord that, in His mercy, my daughter recovered and is now 22 years old. Yet, during that time, because we took her to the hospital, we didn’t even receive a single call to see how she was. Nothing! At church, we were made to feel as if we didn’t do the right thing. Yet, Scripture doesn’t tell us that we can’t see doctors. Luke was a physician. Jesus even said that going to physicians was for the sick (Matthew 9:12). Furthermore, when one sees the advances that medicine has made, one has to wonder Who gave men such great knowledge of the human body. Evidently, it is God who gives us that knowledge.

    When I first began attending the church, it was because my fiance was going there. I left the church I was attending so that we could attend church together. When they found out that we had plans to marry, they were completely against it. They claimed that we had a “higher calling” on our lives and advised us not to marry. If God didn’t want us to marry, wouldn’t you think He would have told us first? Whether we married or not was none of their business. They were going against Scripture which allows marriage if a man and a woman consent to be married, yet they were putting so much pressure on us that we stopped going to the church for awhile. So they started visiting our homes and sending other church members, in an attempt to stop us from marrying. The reality is that they were attempting to take the place of the Holy Spirit and controlling the “good thing” (Proverbs 18:22) that God ordained for man. Marriage is a “good thing” and no man is to decide this for you. Even when Paul spoke about remaining single, he said that he spoke by “permission and not of commandment” (1 Corinthians 7:6), meaning that it was Paul’s opinion and not something the Lord was commanding. Yet, they make it seem as if it were a commandment. Back around 1987, the churches in the USA split because due to the marriage issue. The ministers who disagreed with TPM’s views on marriage split from TPM. They saw it as a direct violation of 1 Timothy 4:3.

    The “Faith Home” ministers suffer the same deprivations that you would see in other cults. They are deprived of adequate sleep, food, medical help, etc. and are, thus, conditioned to play into emotionalisms. This is why you see such a heightened trance-like euphoria during prayer meetings. This isn’t any different than what you see produced by cults, where these are used as a tool, a technique for brainwashing. The ministers are the catalyst for inducing emotionalistic behavior that are often misconstrued as a “movement of the Holy Spirit.” I feel sad for them.

    I have many other things to say about my days with New Testament Church, which is the name of TPM here in the USA, but time doesn’t allow me to. If anyone has any questions about their teachings, please feel free to post here or email me at ekklesia39@yahoo.com

    It is my belief that TPM, and its affiliates, is a cult. The church has destroyed many lives and produces a reliance on their ministers, rather than allowing the Holy Spirit to guide the Christian to a true and lasting relationship with Jesus Christ in sincere repentance and trust.

    Peace,
    Ray


  420. Dear Ray,

    I read your post and would like to know more about you and the incidents occured to you. You have written a long story and nothing pointwise. Can you categorically tell me, what you want to prove by this post?

    I am Jacob from India and have travelled world wide. Though I am attending TPM Fellowship, I dont banner myself as TPM, though I am believer of that Church. I am a follower of Jesus and I too have lots and lots of differernces and opinion against those typical TPM people. But, I know one thing. I too have the Spirit of God and hence I can discern what is right and what is wrong. I do the things which is within my understanding.

    Jesus too said, ” Hear to what they speak, but dont do what they do”
    I think with your case, you are not able to understand, what is right and what is wrong. You blindly follow and that is your mistake.

    You should apply a thought, pray on that matter personally, seek heavenly intervention and then proceed. I can assure you that you will have nothing to grudge about and hold no-one responsible. I realised this and understood, after a folly happened in my life. I too believed blindly on these TPM Ministers and the result was really a big tragedy in my life.

    You know what, I got married to a girl from TPM and these so-called TPM Ministers played folly to hide all wrong things about this girl, whom I married. Now, she is my wife unfortunately. She also said all lie to me and so I have grudge against her and also those workers. But it has nothing to do with TPM or Jesus or GOD. After this incident, I realised not to believe or trust on any human being. Perhaps, I could had avoided this folly, by sitting in the presence of God and asking for his will. I will tell you one more incident. Some years back, I saw a dream about an accident, I saw my bike’s damaged shape, I saw a police station and the place of accident. God showed me a week before this incident. I should had sat and prayed to avoid this, but I didnt do. Eventually, the accident occured and I was in the police lock-up, same place which I saw in my dream. My bike was also damaged exactly the same way, as I saw in the dream. Then I realised my mistake. I should had sat and prayed and this accident could had been avoided. Even about my marriage, I should had done that, which I didnt do, though I saw dreams about my marriage.

    So, the bottomline is that, it is you and your God. There is no mediator, no intervener between both of you. So everything depends upon the LOVE and RELATIONSHIP between you and your God. God definetely warns you from the coming danger, also helps to recover from it and avoid it too, if you are willing. But if we dont want to get rid of that problem, what can God do???? It’s our mistake!!!!!

    There are 100s of stupid ministers in TPM and at the same time there are 100s of saints. You know what, when I pray or praise about them, I praise this way

    Praise God for all the ministers
    Prasie God for all Saints
    Praise God for all Believers
    Praise God for all Faithhomes

    I differentiate Ministers and Saints, becuase I know that all of these ministers are not Saints. Don’t look on them. They too are human beings and perhaps even more vulnerable or weaker than us. I personally know many ministers, who dont have even my spiritual standard. But, I understand them as babes. They too are called for a perfection as do I am. They are also in the race, trying to acheive that perfection. I too am trying to achieve that perfection. They also fails, as we do fail. So we and they, we all are trying our best to achieve the perfection, which Jesus has set. When we reach heaven, we shall be compared against Jesus. Our Measure-Scale would be Jesus and not these TPM Ministers!!!

    So, when I see a poorer minister than me, I feel very sorry for him and pray more, so that he can come up better. Perhaps, God will see my this attitude and help me to get better than my current state.

    THIS IS WHAT I UNDERSTAND ABOUT CHRISTIANITY.

    May God bless us.
    JACOB


  421. Hi Jacob,

    I think I was very clear. I am pointing out that TPM is not orthodox doctrinally, soteriologically, and that their practices, whether matrimonially, medicinally, etc. are byproducts of the heresy they teach. Those who follow TPM and their teachings wind up knowing nothing about what it is to serve God and, sadly, the ministers (Faith Home) and the higher authorities within the church are put in place of the Holy Spirit. Many of these people cannot discern the difference between following Christ and following their church and, thus, are led to follow leaders who tell them how to believe, rather than allow Scripture to guide their path. Again, I was very clear. The very facts that I pointed out, those things I experienced as a member of New Testament Church (as TPM is known here in the states) are not made up stories.

    Jacob, I am used to people who exegete Scripture incorrectly and, sad to say, frivolously at times. These people (TPM) use “eisegesis” to determine Scripture. In other words, they take their own preconceived notions and read it back into Scripture. This is what I see in TPM. Even you used a verse out of context. You said…

    >>Jesus too said, ” Hear to what they speak, but dont do what they do”
    I think with your case, you are not able to understand, what is right and what is wrong. You blindly follow and that is your mistake. <>You should apply a thought, pray on that matter personally, seek heavenly intervention and then proceed. I can assure you that you will have nothing to grudge about and hold no-one responsible. I realised this and understood, after a folly happened in my life. I too believed blindly on these TPM Ministers and the result was really a big tragedy in my life.<>You know what, I got married to a girl from TPM and these so-called TPM Ministers played folly to hide all wrong things about this girl, whom I married. Now, she is my wife unfortunately. She also said all lie to me and so I have grudge against her and also those workers. <>But it has nothing to do with TPM or Jesus or GOD.<>After this incident, I realised not to believe or trust on any human being. <>Perhaps, I could had avoided this folly, by sitting in the presence of God and asking for his will. <>I will tell you one more incident. Some years back, I saw a dream about an accident, I saw my bike’s damaged shape, I saw a police station and the place of accident. God showed me a week before this incident. I should had sat and prayed to avoid this, but I didnt do. Eventually, the accident occured and I was in the police lock-up, same place which I saw in my dream. My bike was also damaged exactly the same way, as I saw in the dream. Then I realised my mistake. I should had sat and prayed and this accident could had been avoided. Even about my marriage, I should had done that, which I didnt do, though I saw dreams about my marriage.<>So, the bottomline is that, it is you and your God. There is no mediator, no intervener between both of you. So everything depends upon the LOVE and RELATIONSHIP between you and your God. God definetely warns you from the coming danger, also helps to recover from it and avoid it too, if you are willing. But if we dont want to get rid of that problem, what can God do???? It’s our mistake!!!!!<>There are 100s of stupid ministers in TPM and at the same time there are 100s of saints. You know what, when I pray or praise about them, I praise this way

    Praise God for all the ministers
    Prasie God for all Saints
    Praise God for all Believers
    Praise God for all Faithhomes<>I differentiate Ministers and Saints, becuase I know that all of these ministers are not Saints. Don’t look on them. They too are human beings and perhaps even more vulnerable or weaker than us. I personally know many ministers, who dont have even my spiritual standard. But, I understand them as babes. They too are called for a perfection as do I am. They are also in the race, trying to acheive that perfection. I too am trying to achieve that perfection. They also fails, as we do fail. So we and they, we all are trying our best to achieve the perfection, which Jesus has set. When we reach heaven, we shall be compared against Jesus. Our Measure-Scale would be Jesus and not these TPM Ministers!!!<>So, when I see a poorer minister than me, I feel very sorry for him and pray more, so that he can come up better. Perhaps, God will see my this attitude and help me to get better than my current state.<<

    Jacob, once again, where is Scripture in all this? I can understand that you should pray for others. I also understand that you would hope to get better with help from God, but God has left us a source to help us “get better” and it is called “Scripture.” What does it say? It says…

    “All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works” (2Timothy 3:16-17).

    You want to get better? Then read Scripture and follow it. It is God’s Word. The word “inspiration” is “theopneustos” in the Greek. It means “God-breathed.” In other words, God “breathed” these words into men of God and they wrote it. It is the standard by which we judge doctrine and correct those who stray from it. It gives us instruction so that we can be righteous before God. Throughout your letter, you have spoken from personal feelings and nothing more. I am wondering what your view of Scripture is. You emphatically state…

    THIS IS WHAT I UNDERSTAND ABOUT CHRISTIANITY.

    Jacob, I can’t stress this enough, if you want to truly understand Christianity, it starts and ends with Scripture. You won’t be able to prove anything unless you start with “Thus saith the Lord.” Yes, unless you start with the standard that God left us, that being the Scriptures, you won’t get anywhere except with those who take things at face value, but isn’t that the point? At TPM, many of their people take things at face value. There is no effort to know Scripture and test the doctrines of TPM. I’m sorry, Jacob, but the quickest way to lose your argument is by using your feelings and avoiding Scriptures. Feelings are not the standard God left; neither are they the standard that I live by.

    Peace,
    Ray


  422. Hi Jacob,

    Sorry about that last post. I tried to put your statements within some marks, so that you would know they are your statements, but it misconfigured. The format went bad. The following is what I meant to say. You will just have to read it a bit more carefully to separate what you said from my responses.

    I think I was very clear. I am pointing out that TPM is not orthodox doctrinally, soteriologically, and that their practices, whether matrimonially, medicinally, etc. are byproducts of the heresy they teach. Those who follow TPM and their teachings wind up knowing nothing about what it is to serve God and, sadly, the ministers (Faith Home) and the higher authorities within the church are put in place of the Holy Spirit. Many of these people cannot discern the difference between following Christ and following their church and, thus, are led to follow leaders who tell them how to believe, rather than allow Scripture to guide their path. Again, I was very clear. The very facts that I pointed out, those things I experienced as a member of New Testament Church (as TPM is known here in the states) are not made up stories.

    Jacob, I am used to people who exegete Scripture incorrectly and, sad to say, frivolously at times. These people use “eisegesis” to determine Scripture. In other words, they take their own preconceived notions and read it back into Scripture. This is what I see in TPM. Even you used a verse out of context. You said…

    Jesus too said, ” Hear to what they speak, but dont do what they do”
    I think with your case, you are not able to understand, what is right and what is wrong. You blindly follow and that is your mistake.

    In context, Jesus is telling his disciples that the Pharisees “rightly” sit on the throne of Moses and that they should follow what they say, but not to do as they do. They were teaching rightly from a doctrinal stance, but they weren’t practicing what they taught the people to do. Yet, if you read Scripture, you find that there were instances where Christ rebuked the Pharisees for teaching falsely and putting burdens that no man could carry. In the case of TPM, their teaching IS the problem. I wasn’t following ministers, blindly or otherwise. I was following their “teaching.” This is the problem. The ministers are just those who enforce bad doctrinal teaching. You keep putting this on the ministers, but it wasn’t the ministers who did anything to me or anyone. It is the TEACHING! The same teaching that everyone in that church is adhering to. It is FALSE teaching that is the problem and not the ministers. Obviously you weren’t paying close attention to what I was saying in the post. In my case, I can judge TPM on the basis of Scripture and experience (considering I attended the church for several years). Yet, you weren’t paying attention and now you judge me without knowing anything about me. Get it right, Jacob. I wasn’t talking about ministers. I was speaking about their teachings. The ministers are only doing what TPM teaches them to do. You said…

    You should apply a thought, pray on that matter personally, seek heavenly intervention and then proceed. I can assure you that you will have nothing to grudge about and hold no-one responsible. I realised this and understood, after a folly happened in my life. I too believed blindly on these TPM Ministers and the result was really a big tragedy in my life.

    What about Scripture, Jacob? That’s where it truly starts. It doesn’t start with applying a “thought”, it doesn’t change because I “prayed” about it, seeking “heavenly intervention” means nothing if I don’t follow Scripture correctly. It starts and ends with study and properly dividing the Word of God (2 Timothy 2:15) and allowing the Holy Spirit to guide you. Even 1 John 2:20-27 speaks of how one doesn’t need a teacher to teach them IF they are allowing the Holy Spirit to illuminate them. You keep making these false assumptions that I have a “grudge.” I have nothing of the kind. I just want to make sure that those who enter TPM understand that they teach a false gospel, lead people astray, and mistake emotionalism for spiritual experience. As with any other cult, I want people to understand. By the way, I NEVER “believed” on these ministers. I believed on the teachings of the church and I thank God that he delivered me from their false gospel. Now in your next statement, you proved my point. You said…

    You know what, I got married to a girl from TPM and these so-called TPM Ministers played folly to hide all wrong things about this girl, whom I married. Now, she is my wife unfortunately. She also said all lie to me and so I have grudge against her and also those workers.

    You see what I mean? The first thought that went through my mind is “WHY did Jacob allow TPM to be involved?” TPM shouldn’t be involved in your marital decisions, Jacob. Where are the Scriptures proving that they can? You continued…

    But it has nothing to do with TPM or Jesus or GOD.

    Oh yes it did and it’s obvious, regardless if you admit it or not. You continue…

    After this incident, I realised not to believe or trust on any human being.

    You shouldn’t have trusted them from the beginning, especially since they were involved in your personal affairs. You continue…

    Perhaps, I could had avoided this folly, by sitting in the presence of God and asking for his will.

    And by reading Scripture. You would have found that this matter wasn’t something these ministers were to be involved in. You continue…

    I will tell you one more incident. Some years back, I saw a dream about an accident, I saw my bike’s damaged shape, I saw a police station and the place of accident. God showed me a week before this incident. I should had sat and prayed to avoid this, but I didnt do. Eventually, the accident occured and I was in the police lock-up, same place which I saw in my dream. My bike was also damaged exactly the same way, as I saw in the dream. Then I realised my mistake. I should had sat and prayed and this accident could had been avoided. Even about my marriage, I should had done that, which I didnt do, though I saw dreams about my marriage.

    I don’t put much value into dreams. Not that I doubt you. Maybe God did give you a dream. However, again, it starts with Scripture and ends with Scripture. You don’t need a “dream” to warn you about a bad marriage. Just use Scripture practically even when seeking a wife. You said…

    So, the bottomline is that, it is you and your God. There is no mediator, no intervener between both of you. So everything depends upon the LOVE and RELATIONSHIP between you and your God. God definetely warns you from the coming danger, also helps to recover from it and avoid it too, if you are willing. But if we dont want to get rid of that problem, what can God do???? It’s our mistake!!!!!

    Jacob, if you believe that ministers are incapable of leading the flock astray, what Bible are you reading? Sure, we have our responsibilities to follow God in all we do, but what is the standard by which we discern true and false doctrine? I only know of one…SCRIPTURE. Getting rid of the problem is to no avail if you continue to serve under a source of the problem. In other words, if TPM is a problem and teaches falsely, why pretend that it’s your fault? Instead, leave the source of the problem or you’re right…it is YOUR mistake!!! You act as if you aren’t responsible for what you are allowing in your ears and into your heart. YOU ARE!! You said…

    There are 100s of stupid ministers in TPM and at the same time there are 100s of saints. You know what, when I pray or praise about them, I praise this way

    Praise God for all the ministers
    Prasie God for all Saints
    Praise God for all Believers
    Praise God for all Faithhomes

    How about “Praise God for His Scriptures which is able to lead men into truth”? I didn’t see that one there. You said…

    I differentiate Ministers and Saints, becuase I know that all of these ministers are not Saints. Don’t look on them. They too are human beings and perhaps even more vulnerable or weaker than us. I personally know many ministers, who dont have even my spiritual standard. But, I understand them as babes. They too are called for a perfection as do I am. They are also in the race, trying to acheive that perfection. I too am trying to achieve that perfection. They also fails, as we do fail. So we and they, we all are trying our best to achieve the perfection, which Jesus has set. When we reach heaven, we shall be compared against Jesus. Our Measure-Scale would be Jesus and not these TPM Ministers!!!

    You don’t seem to be able to understand everything I’ve said. At no time did I say that I was looking at TPM ministers. You keep repeating this, but if you read what I stated, you find that this isn’t the case. I am talking about TPM’s doctrinal teachings and their practices. The ministers are only carrying out the doctrines and practices of the church. To claim that I am pigeonholing this to solely the ministers is your misinterpretation of what I wrote. In other words, when the ministers do anything, it is because their church authorities allowed them to do it. Therefore, TPM, as an organization is teaching these “saints” false doctrines and the “saints” are buying into it without question. Of course! Jesus is our only example. He is Who we strive to follow. However, TPM wants their “saints” to follow a false caricature of Christ. In other words, because of their doctrine, the people are, in actuality, following their ministers, rather than Christ. I saw it the entire time that I attended that church. You said…

    So, when I see a poorer minister than me, I feel very sorry for him and pray more, so that he can come up better. Perhaps, God will see my this attitude and help me to get better than my current state.

    Jacob, once again, where is Scripture in all this? I can understand that you should pray for others. I also understand that you would hope to get better with help from God, but God has left us a sources to help us “get better” and it is called “Scripture.” What does it say? It says…

    All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works (2Timothy 3:16-17).

    You want to get better? Then read Scripture and follow it. It is God’s Word. The word “inspiration” is “theopneustos” in the Greek. It means “God-breathed.” In other words, God “breathed” these words into men of God and they wrote it. It is the standard by which we judge doctrine and correct those who stray from it. It gives us instruction so that we can be righteous before God. Throughout your letter, you have spoken from personal feelings and nothing more. I am wondering what your view of Scripture is. You emphatically state…

    THIS IS WHAT I UNDERSTAND ABOUT CHRISTIANITY.

    Jacob, I can’t stress this enough, if you want to truly understand Christianity; it starts and ends with Scripture. You won’t be able to prove anything unless you start with “Thus saith the Lord.” Yes, unless you start with the standard that God left us, that being the Scriptures, you won’t get anywhere except with those who take things at face value, but isn’t that the point. At TPM, many of their people take things at face value. There is no effort to know Scripture and test the doctrines of TPM. I’m sorry, Jacob, but the quickest way to lose your argument is by using your feelings and avoiding Scriptures. Feelings are not the standard God left; neither are they the standard that I live by.

    Peace,
    Ray


  423. on April 5, 2009 at 10:39 am Brahmin to Christian Believer

    I am a Hindu born Brahmin man (late 60s) who came to Christ 27 years ago, and was born again, I follow the word of God and believe in the Infilling, Indwelling and the leading of the Holy Spirit and a personal relationship with Jesus Christ.

    I was excommunicated from my family long ago, they have all gone, I was the only believer in the Lord Jesus christ. Over the years. That is a bit about my background.

    I may not agree with the author’s certain view points and do respect the fact that the Author of this blog is an atheist as she had honestly admitted, I find myself agreeing with some other things she had written about certain pentecostal people.

    I have had a life time of abuse and judgements and headaches with Kerala christians.

    1. I found them sometimes very controlling and judgemental, twisting the scriptures to suit their own personal agendas or needs, rather than focus on what the scriptures say they give heed to “culture” and put culture above God. Christ came to reconcile all mankind to himself, and all men are created equal. All of mankind that exists today, came from Noah and his three children. They later migrated and transmigrated into new lands, thus eventually populated different parts of the world, developed over time their own cultural values and traditions.

    Jesus Christ however, cautions against the “vain traditions of men”, some kerala pentecostal pastors and christians have put this as the all in all.

    2. I found them often very harsh to their women, I found them very harsh to people who disagree with them even in small ways, attack them straight, point them as evil, and start praying “inscriptural prayers”, which itself is a form of witchcraft.

    eg: “I pray to God, you will become JUST like me, and I will pray day and night” = Is this prayer from God ? Did the Holy Spirit give you burden to pray like that ? or is it because you think you have some form of spiritual authority over others and can invoke God as a stick to beat up other people, you are no different from those who commit witchcraft against others.

    3. I found them extremely self confident and arrogant to other Christians, they force smile and force everyone to be “joyful and sing” all the time but inside a lot of these pentecostals are broken people, with broken lives. They just put on a show just to “save face” but many of them in their rooms at night cry out rivers of tears, because no ne asked them “how do you feel and what do you want?”.

    Jesus came to one of the apostles and He asked “What do you want? “. Christ often cares about your needs and wants and your values, as long as they are in line with what the scriptures say of a life in Christ.

    4. Excessive parental authority and fear being put
    When I was excommunicated by my family 27 years ago, I asked for understand and help. Many pentecostal pastors attacked me and blamed me of being “dishonrable and disobidient” to my parents, and used my parents as a means to intimidate and threaten me into submission.

    The bible talks about “Honoring your parents”, but take it in a greater context, are your parents Christian? Are they both Filled with holy spirit? are their demands on you reasonable ?

    What if your father was a rapist? or a child abuser? What if your mother was a drunk ? and they commanded you to do something against God, would you obeyt hem blindly ? What if you were a convert, and they commanded you to marry a hindu woman which the scriptures forbid ?

    Parents are humans too and they are not perfect. God speaks to people directly through the HOly Spirit, we don’t need mediators to decide what God wants , He speaks through His word.

    Pastors believe they are the only spokesman of God, and only they can speak on behalf of God.

    Each believer in the new testament is equipped to be self sufficient and Christ reliant. It is good to have a community etc, to share things to be edified and to get what God gives you “confirmed by many”. but no where does the scriptures say God only speaks through the pastor and malayalee pentecostals then only it is true.

    I found many things in kerala’s church to be childish, at times arrogant, narrow minded, culturally driven and outright dangerous ways to control people.

    5. When I married a non indian woman, she was a devout Christian , she really became my only family, she was attacked day and night by Malayalee Pentecostal pastors who condemned us both to burn in hell fire , and would write letters to us saying “they are praying for us to repent of sin for not marrying people of OUR OWN ETHNIC GROUP etc etc, no where does the bible in the new testament say that.

    My wife suffered immensly and so did I.

    I am 67 years old, I have seen life. I have studied Hinduism in its depth and core and I can identify and pick out any form of hinduism or its practices anywhere, and I have found and identified some this left over garbage in many kerala Christians.

    The Kerala pentecostal movement is divided, and wounded and led by arrogant and extremely racist people.

    Why are their miracles and stuff? Because God is kind. Book of romans says, God gives his gifts without repentance. God gives it to them because no one else is out there doing this. They do have some good points, but ultimately

    Love is important. Love for one another, without compromising God’s word

    Let me leave it here

    Love is patient, love is kind and is not jealous; love does not brag and is not arrogant, [1 corinthians 13:4]

    We are faced with 800 million Hindus who have never heard the gospels or stepped in problems, and the kerala pentecostals are at war with each other, tearing each other down, and drawing each other’s blood out , boasting how holier they are than others.

    Defend the Word of God, I am with you but if you attack someone else for thinking differently, you are worse than an Islamic terrorist.

    God bless
    Ashok
    (67 years old), Brahmin to Born again Christian(27 years)


  424. LIFE OF SIMPLICITY. WHAT DOES IT MEAN?

    Frequently, Pentecostals use the word “simple-life” to justify certain of their practices. By “simple-life”, they mean the following:
    • Wearing white saree, white dhoti, white shirt and white Jibba.
    • Abstaining from jewels.

    Interestingly, the Buddhists in the Indian sub-continent followed such practices and during the days of Jesus, the Pharisees had similar practices. Pastor Alwin and Paul were probably influenced by the abundance of Buddhists in Ceylon.

    Thus by the above practices, the Buddhists and Pharisees brought spirituality to an “external” display.

    WERE THESE PRACTICES OF PENTECOSTAL BELIEVERS “CONSISTENT” TO THEIR BELIEFS?
    The Pentecostal believers who spoke about simplicity and abstained from jewels also did the following:
    1. Got overseas jobs for better salary.
    2. Had lakhs of money in their personal account.
    3. Immigrated to modern countries for a better living.
    4. Got the best education to earn a luxurious amount of money.
    5. Purchased the best set of coat, suit, silk sarees and pullovers.
    6. Built better houses with the best furnishing.
    7. Ate the best food.

    Moreover, even the TPM workers have many Millions in the TPM Trust! Land and buildings whose value alone amounts several Billions across the globe!! No more “faith for rice or jeerakam” needed. They have “servants” to wash, cook, massage the legs; their dwelling place has carpeted floors, western closets and toiletries; food includes Chicken-in-coconut-milk Kerala menu; They dress in Cambrique cotton jibbas and sarees; have cars with A/c; they use sunglasses, Singapore towels, VIP suitcases and bags, bathroom slippers, cots with cushion mattresses, fruit juice at regular intervals, regular laundry of curtains, Bed sheets and pillow covers, china dishes and cups, machines for Grinding, mixing and juice-making. The list could continue!

    Not satisfied with the above, the TPM believers happily blame the non-TPM pastors of not living “simple” when they have failed to “see’ the above inconsistency!!!

    WHAT DOES THE BIBLE SAY?
    However, 1 Samuel 16:7 says, “But the LORD said to Samuel, “Do not consider his appearance or his height, for I have rejected him. The LORD does not look at the things man looks at. Man looks at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart.”

    The above verse sums up God’s nature. Moreover, God is unchanging in His nature. Even now, He looks at the heart and not the external appearance.

    In total disregard to the above, even Christians who call themselves Pentecostals and anointed with the Holy Spirit have miserably chosen to “inconsistently” “display” their spirituality and righteousness externally rather than internally nurture the “priesthood calling” that God had given them.

    NOW, TO WHOM WAS SIMPLICITY EXHORTED?

    A) Firstly, the apostles exhorted the Christians to be simple as they were new in their faith and did not know how to handle prosperity. Those Christians were focusing & bragging about prosperity instead of the “crucified Christ” and thus ended up trusting prosperity and also ended up in sin.

    Now, however, God has flooded the church with His knowledge. Thus, God primarily expects us to be strengthened “inside” rather than make an “inconsistent display” of “external piety”.

    B) Secondly, simplicity is exhorted in the “evangelistic” context for both workers and believers. Thus, Paul says that we need to adjust our “external” practices, not in holiness, in order to bring unbelievers to salvation. This means eating and dressing, not immodestly, but similar to the unbeliever’s culture. For example, when sharing the gospel among Buddhist monks, refrain from jewels and when sharing the gospel among Hindus, do wear them. Eating pork when among the Chinese and refraining from, when among the Jews and Muslims. Being in a coat and suit when in the west and being in pants when evangelizing the Indians.

    CONCLUSION:
    1. Why not righteousness & religion be “internal” rather than be displayed on the external in an inconsistent manner?
    2. Why not the preaching of the gospel be “externally” seen instead of a “show of piety”. Would the Pentecostals who are taught to listen to stories from pastors on Sundays understand this?
    3. Why should “kootaaima” become an excuse to keep the believers as spiritual kids?


  425. HOW DOES SATAN TRAP WORKERS?

    If a worker teaches and trains the believers to depend on the Holy Spirit then the believers learn to start depending on the Holy Spirit.

    A believer who has learnt to depend on the Holy Spirit will not depend on pastors wholly for spiritual food and encouragement.

    However, what happens currently is that believers depend on workers and their Sunday morning sermons and bible studies. The believers find it very difficult to receive the spiritual food from the Holy Spirit directly as per 1 John 2:27.

    It is this dependency on workers that has become very easy for satan to deceive the believers with false doctrines. All satan has to do is to induce false doctrines in the mind of the worker. Then when the worker starts to preach that false doctrine all the worker-dependent believers believe that false doctrine to be a word from God.

    The next question is how do false doctrines enter the mind of workers? Workers who call themselves as full time pastors start focusing on believers for money and not on God. They start to feel insecure because they do not have a job of their own as Paul the apostle did.

    They pretend not to ask for money openly but in their hearts, they start lusting for the tithe money of the believers. They also cover up their lust for money by dressing themselves in white clothing displaying a false humility.

    Once they have started focusing on money in their hearts they start to cling on to the believer. How do they do that? They do that by making the believers to cling on to them.

    How do they make the believers to cling on to them? By doing the following:

    1. By preaching that they are melchizedek priests unbiblically and as to how great their calling is.
    2. By preaching about the great sacrifices they did to become a pastor.
    3. By preaching about their greatness of being a celibate worker.
    4. By speaking ill of other denominations.
    5. By creating a set of false doctrines just to show themselves to be superior.

    Thus, instead of glorifying Christ they have ended up glorifying themselves just to enslave the believers to themselves. All for money!!


  426. Ray,

    I took your points.

    All I want to emphasis is that “DONT LOOK ON MINISTERS, THEY ARE MERE HUMAN BEINGS”.

    You have your own calling from God. Maintain your personal relationship with God and leave the reward for Him.

    Secondly, you said that the Organisation is allowing their Pastors to preach the gospel in their own way. NO, CERTAINLY NOT. There are many strict actions taken against those Pastors who had erred in their speech, action or life. All these things does not come out. If you are not a minister, you will never know the happenings inside. 99% of the believers also don’t know about these incidents.

    Let me ask you a straight question? Have you ever heard of a Female Minister, especially a 50 years above aged Sister (basically called as Mother) becoming pregnant and that too delivered the child in the toilet, murdered and dumped in the toilet???? IF NOT, YOU DONT KNOW ANYTHING !!!!

    I know even much more worse thing happening. None of those incidents have shook me, because bible says that all such kind would happen in last days; nothing to be astonished about. But we are not suppose to look them. Everyone will receive to what they do.

    We should look to our author and finisher of our race, who is JESUS. If Jesus did anything wrong, we too can do. And if He did no sin, we all are suppose not to do.

    Hence, I would like to emphasis once again that please don’t look to Pastors and Mothers of any denomination.

    Hope this helps,

    Regards
    JACOB


  427. Hello again, Jacob.

    You said…
    Ray,
    I took your points.
    All I want to emphasis is that “DONT LOOK ON MINISTERS, THEY ARE MERE HUMAN BEINGS”.

    I say…
    You keep repeating this, but I think I’ve already stated that I don’t. The fact is that I am a minister myself and a teacher at a Baptist school and I wouldn’t want anyone to look at me other than an example (1 Peter 5:3), and I pray that God continues to work in me so I can be a better example.

    You said…
    You have your own calling from God. Maintain your personal relationship with God and leave the reward for Him.

    I say…
    Yes, I know.

    You said…
    Secondly, you said that the Organisation is allowing their Pastors to preach the gospel in their own way. NO, CERTAINLY NOT.

    I say…
    No, I never said that. Again, you seem to be misunderstanding what I was saying. What I said is that the organization teaches the doctrines which the TPM ministers are enforcing. Thus, if they apply pressure not to see doctors it is because the organization has told them so. If they ordain or stop a marriage, it is because the organization allows them to do so. I would dare to say that the Pastors cannot and will not think for themselves. Everything is based on the interpretations of Pastor Paul or other ministers throughout the years. Again, going back to my friend, the one that was dying of encephalitis, when I questioned his Faith Home pastor, Brother Chuck, about his misuse of 2 Chronicles 16:12, he didn’t know what to say. When I showed him that “perfection” isn’t contingent on what man does but what God does and then showed him 2 Kings 15:14 and 2 Chronicles 15:17, he didn’t know how to answer me. He wanted to call New Jersey (the New Testament Church headquarters in the USA), obviously to get an answer. He surely couldn’t think for himself, could he.

    You said…
    There are many strict actions taken against those Pastors who had erred in their speech, action or life. All these things does not come out. If you are not a minister, you will never know the happenings inside. 99% of the believers also don’t know about these incidents.

    I say…
    Of course there will be actions, especially if they don’t teach what TPM tells them to teach. And, sometimes, that’s not a good thing.

    You said…
    Let me ask you a straight question? Have you ever heard of a Female Minister, especially a 50 years above aged Sister (basically called as Mother) becoming pregnant and that too delivered the child in the toilet, murdered and dumped in the toilet???? IF NOT, YOU DONT KNOW ANYTHING !!!!

    I say…
    Are you talking about that awful movie “Agnes of God”? Or is this something that happened in the TPM movement? I fail to see your point here.

    You said…
    I know even much more worse thing happening. None of those incidents have shook me, because bible says that all such kind would happen in last days; nothing to be astonished about. But we are not suppose to look them. Everyone will receive to what they do.

    I say…
    Yes, there are worse things happening. But again, I fail to see what this has to do with the subject at hand. The issue is TPM and its teachings.

    You said…
    We should look to our author and finisher of our race, who is JESUS. If Jesus did anything wrong, we too can do. And if He did no sin, we all are suppose not to do.

    I say…
    No one is denying that, but I’m still wondering why you continue to focus on ministers. The issue is TPM and its teachings.

    You said…
    Hence, I would like to emphasis once again that please don’t look to Pastors and Mothers of any denomination.

    I say…
    I don’t. Again, the issue is TPM and their teachings.

    You said…
    Hope this helps,
    Regards
    JACOB

    I say…
    Jacob, as I told you in my last post, TPM has teachings that are false, both doctrinally and soteriologically. In my estimation, it is a cult because of its practices. I still don’t understand why you are so focused on the ministers. I don’t follow ministers, but Christ. The TPM ministers are pawns of the systems, just like many of the members are. So, please, let’s be realistic.

    Peace,
    Ray


  428. Hello Ray,

    I fully agree what you are saying here. There are many wrong teachings. And all people (people who can think about what they hear and verify against the word of God) will agree to it. Now there are lakhs and lakhs of uneducated who are just blindly following those wrong teachings, which is very sad.

    What can be done about this known problem. Nothing! The only option is stay in the church, hear the teachings and verify against the word of God and listen to the guidance of Holy Spirit or leave the church. But if I leave the church and end up in another church with some other problem then again Iwill have to wander from church to church.

    And I know every church is not perfect, it is us who have to be watchful these last days and be prepared to meet the bridegroom. It is us who have to be accountable for our souls and no church or teaching will defend that day when we stand before God. I keep focussing on these things and keep going.

    God be glorified.


  429. Hi Jacob,

    I agree with everything you said, but I take exception to the following…

    **What can be done about this known problem. Nothing! The only option is stay in the church, hear the teachings and verify against the word of God and listen to the guidance of Holy Spirit or leave the church. But if I leave the church and end up in another church with some other problem then again Iwill have to wander from church to church.**

    I disagree. Something can be done. I would advise you to read Scripture without the biases many of us impose on it. I grew up in the Roman Catholic Church, lived a very Catholic life within a parish community. I remained a Catholic until my early adulthood. I was a faithful Catholic and believed that Scripture and Tradition (the liturgies, teaching of the fathers, etc.) comprised the “fullness of Truth”, but when I began to study Scripture it left me with a dilemma. I couldn’t figure out why Scripture disagreed and, sometimes, blatantly contradicted was taught to be “Tradition.” Furthermore, there were some historical issues that didn’t seem to support RC distinctives, such as purgatory. As I studied, I realized that I couldn’t submit myself to a system that contradicted the only tangible “theopneustos” (God-breathed) form of truth that we have, Scriptures! It was tough, considering I grew up a Catholic and it was a integral part of my culture (I am Puerto Rican). Not only did I have to leave the RCC, but I was looked down upon by my own family. Yet, the decision I made was to put God first.

    Now, did I “wander from church to church.” Yes, for a time I did. During this period I went to New Testament Church (TPM) and, being a new Christian, I didn’t know much and still behaved like a Catholic. In other words, instead of learning my lesson and allowing God to guide my life, I submitted to the teachings of TPM in the very same way that I submitted to the Catholic Church. As I continued to grow in Christ, I started to see that TPM didn’t fair much better, considering that they seemed “godly” but imposed legalisms which left the individual devoid of any assurance from God. There are people there who live in fear of missing the Rapture, others who are – by their own power – trying to be “perfect” in order to attain New Jerusalem. There are people who are, under their own power, “consecrating” their lives, separating from their God-given responsibilities to their wives and children. There are people who cannot discern what is truth and are hanging on every word from an ordained TPM minister, rather than careful study of Scripture and prayer for understanding. There are people who go to TPM prayer meetings and confuse seeking God with heightened emotionalism. A cacophony of noise and involuntary actions are often confused as spirituality or a “move of the Holy Spirit.” All too often, TPM adherents are led down a road that leaves them dependent on TPM ministers and, thus, never know God in a true and meaningful way. Now, would I submit myself to something like this? Would I continue to show my support, however indirect, by going to their meetings? No, never again. And I would advise anyone to do the same.

    I know that I can be very direct Jacob, but I don’t do so in a haughty manner. I say these things humbly, knowing that God will hold me accountable for anything done out of self or spite. What I do, I do for the glory of God and don’t hold any personal feelings against people or ministers in TPM, but I do believe that they impose unnecessary burdens on their adherents and, thus, they take away from what rightfully belongs to God.

    Peace,
    Ray


  430. I’m sorry, Joel. I meant to address the post to you but addressed it to “Jacob” instead. A thousand pardons :-)

    Peace,
    Ray


  431. on April 8, 2009 at 5:54 am Joel Joseph (Sri Lanka)

    You cannot brand TPM/CPM as a cult.

    Celibacy of Full Time Workers
    It is their calling. (Matthew 19 – Eunuchs – for the Kingdom of God) If you want to marry, you can leave the Ministry and do so. There is no restriction. I know there are several TPM workers, who have left the ministry and are involved in ministry with other churches.

    Divine Healing – James fifth chapter says: If somebody is sick, they have to call the elders of the church.

    There are thousands of people die even after taking medicine. Do you blame the Doctor’s for it? So why just blame this church only?

    There are thousands of cases (with diseases such as Cancer, Asthma and Diabetes have been healed by God…Still Medical Science is struggling to find permanent remedy/cure for these sicknesses). I have personally met such cases.

    Of course nobody should claim, “We are perfect”, “We are Going to New Jerusalem and Zion” “We have the Deeper Doctrines”, because spritual pride may cause you to become a victim of satan.

    If somebody can follow God closely (with whole heart) and without being forced by somebody or even by a Church, then God will accept your “Walk with God”

    For your info I am not a member of this church or trying to defend them.

    We have to just compare the doctrines with Word of God only.


  432. To Joel Joseph,

    In reply to your post that you wrote

    “You cannot brand TPM/CPM as a cult.

    Celibacy of Full Time Workers
    It is their calling. (Matthew 19 – Eunuchs – for the Kingdom of God) If you want to marry, you can leave the Ministry and do so. There is no restriction. I know there are several TPM workers, who have left the ministry and are involved in ministry with other churches. ”

    Answer : There are some members within TPM /CPM that behave like cults, trying to control other people. Most of them are converts from the lower strata of society, now they have sudden religious power, and religion is often used a weapon to control people, this sense of control is like a drug.

    The bible also says,

    Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. [1 timothy 4:3]

    And the bible also says again,

    A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; [1 timothy 3:2]

    As far as staying single is concerned, its more of a “suggestion” by St Paul, because it kind of frees you from other responsibilities associated with having a family. But it is no where a command.

    A family person can be an effective Christian witness, and someone THROUGH WHOM Christ works and transform the world.

    —–

    You said in your post

    “Divine Healing – James fifth chapter says: If somebody is sick, they have to call the elders of the church.

    There are thousands of people die even after taking medicine. Do you blame the Doctor’s for it? So why just blame this church only? ”

    Answer : yes, I agree, very true. Now, God is able to perform miracles, but another miracle God has done, is to create the human brain. God’s creation is man. and Man has been led to discover medicines and other things which are made from plants and other materials found on earth, and its end purpose and intention is to cure the sick and help the people, that are made in the image of God.

    God sees the intention of why one takes medicines, it is to help one self get better “the body is the temple of the holy spirit”, take care of this temple well.

    There is nothing wrong in taking medicines, and any form of legal doctrine that says don’t take medicine = wrong, twisted theology.

    The bible says

    Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach’s sake and thine often infirmities. [1 timothy 5:23]

    which seems to suggest that wine is a form of medication at times used.

    One should moderate one’s life and Christianity is about moderation, and at the same time living in the Spirit and the Word. This is not for some pentecostal screaming pastor to decide who and how one should live, the WORD OF GOD and the HOLY SPIRIT decides that.

    If this kind of foolishness and spiritual thuggery by certain pentecostals goes on, I am begining to wonder if some of the “persecution” they face at hands of Hindu gangs, are persecution at all or “induced and provoked persecution” for their “attitudes” and spiritual thuggery ?

    makes one wonder…


  433. I DO READ THE POSTINGS HERE AND FEEL THAT SUSAN AND RACHEL DO GIVE AN ACCURATE PRESENTATION BOTH ABOUT THE HISTORY OF TPM AND ABOUT THE FALSE DOCTRINES OF TPM.

    IT IS BETTER TO UNDERSTAND THE FOLLOWING REGARDING TPM:

    FIRST OF ALL, TPM BELIEVERS DO NOT WANT THE FALSE DOCTRINES IN TPM TO BE EXPOSED. THUS THEY LOVE TO “FEEL GOOD” ABOUT TPM RATHER THAN FACE THE TRUTH AND GIVE UP THEIR FALSE DOCTRINES.

    THEY ALSO WANT GLORY TO GO THE WORKERS RATHER THAN TO GOD.

    THEY JUST PRETEND TO LOVE TRUTH BUT IN ACTUALITY, THEY CRAVE TO SING PRAISES ABOUT THE CONSECRATION OF THE WORKERS.

    TPM CRAVES FOR AN IDENTITY FOR THEIR DENOMINATION. THEY WANT TO PROJECT THEMSELVES AS “SUPERIOR”.

    MOREOVER, THEY CRAVE TO KEEP THEIR BELIEVERS TOTALLY DEPENDENT UPON THE WORKERS LIKE SUCKLING BABES.

    IT IS THE ABOVE ATTITUDES THAT HAS LED THEM AND FORCED THEM TO FABRICATE MANY FALSE DOCTRINES TO SUIT THEIR “FALSE IMAGE” WHICH THEY HAVE CREATED FOR THEMSELVES.

    TPM WILL BE DELIVERED WHEN THEY GIVE UP THEIR CRAVING FOR “SUPERIORITY” AND THEIR CRAVING TO KEEP THEIR BELIEVERS LIKE BABIES DEPENDENT ON WORKERS.

    MAY GOD OPEN THE EYES OF TPM BELIEVERS WHO VISIT THIS SITE ESPECIALLY THE YOUNG GIRLS AND BOYS WHO ARE DECEIVED.


  434. DO PASTORS & APOSTLES NEED TO BE CELIBATES?

    The TPM denomination claims the following:

    1. That apostles and pastors would do better if they remain unmarried.
    2. That TPM pastors are superior to pastors from other denominations.
    3. Apostles should not be married or in case they are married earlier they should forsake their wives.

    WHAT IS THE TRUTH?

    Dear Brethren, 1 Timothy 3: 5 says, “(If anyone does not know how to manage his own family, how can he take care of God’s church?)”

    Thus, God expects the people, especially those who lead and manage congregations, to be married and be able to manage their family.

    Secondly, Jesus never commanded His apostles to remain unmarried. If He had required that apostles should be celibates, He would have selected unmarried people as apostles. However, Jesus chose married people as apostles.

    Thirdly, 1 Corinthians 9:5 says, “5Don’t we have the right to take a believing wife along with us, as do the other apostles and the Lord’s brothers and Cephas[a]?

    The above verse clearly states that apostles never forsook their wives but instead they took them along. Moreover, Paul the apostle claims, in the above verse, that he has a right to marry as the other apostles did.

    Fourthly, in 1 Timothy 4: 1, 2 and 3 the Bible warns saying, “The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. They forbid people to marry…”

    Thus, the Holy Spirit warns that in the last days, false teachers will forbid people to abstain from marriage. Beware of TPM which calls marriage as lustful and defiling.


  435. DEAR BRETHREN,

    1. IF MARRIAGE TAKES A PERSON AWAY FROM DEVOTION TO CHRIST THEN TPM WORKERS WOULD DO GOOD IF THEY GAVE UP THEIR MARRIAGE LICENSES WHICH THEY GOT FROM THE GOVERNMENT.
    (HOPE THEY PRACTISE CHRIST-FANATCISM!! RATHER THAN JUST PREACH)

    2. IF INCOME TAX OFFICIALS ARE APPOINTED BY GOD WHO APPOINTS DOCTORS? THERE WAS NO ANSWER TO THAT.

    (IN FACT JESUS SAID THAT A SICK MAN NEEDS A PHYSICIAN. SO WHO APPOINTED A PHYSICIAN?)

    3. IN TPM FAITHOMES YOU CAN SEE EXCELLENT “GRANDMA POTIONS” BEING PREPARED FOR WORKERS AND BELIEVERS WHEN THEY FALL SICK. PAS. A.C. THOMAS WAS GIVEN PROTEIN SUPPLEMENTS AND WATERBURY’S COMPOUND.

    PAS. C. JOHN WAS PROVIDED WITH PORK BECAUSE HE SUFFERED FROM PILES. MAYBE “FAITH” FORGOTTEN DURING THOSE CIRCUMSTANCES.

    4. TPM DOCTORS AND NURSES WHO PRESCRIBE MEDICINES (SORCERY ITEMS AS PER JIM) ARE GIVEN COMMUNION IN THE LORD’S TABLE?

    IF DOCTORS ARE SIMILAR TO WITCH DOCTORS WHY DOES TPM GIVE COMMUNION TO THEM?

    5. IT THE GOD OF THE ISRAELITES (JESUS) WHO SAID, “I AM THE LORD THAT HEALETH THEE” WHO AGAIN SAID THAT A SICK MAN NEEDS A PHYSICIAN. HOPE JIM REMEMBERS THAT!!

    PLEASE THINK…AND YOU CAN SEE THE TRUTH.


  436. It is mentioned in bible by sin you are born. Why you did not ask your father? you ask first. Then talk about TPM


  437. Hi Joel Joseph,

    You said…
    **You cannot brand TPM/CPM as a cult.

    Celibacy of Full Time Workers
    It is their calling. (Matthew 19 – Eunuchs – for the Kingdom of God) If you want to marry, you can leave the Ministry and do so. There is no restriction. I know there are several TPM workers, who have left the ministry and are involved in ministry with other churches.**

    The Bible only speaks of three types of “eunuchs”: Those who were born eunuchs; those who were made eunuchs (in servitude to the king); and those who make themselves eunuchs. Jesus speaks of this in Matthew 19:12 and qualifies His statement by saying “He that is able to receive, let him receive it.” There is nothing in Scripture which teaches that a husband is to conjugally separate from his wife as a norm for ministry. Nothing!! Unfortunately, this is the case with the ministers in TPM. In fact there are strict guidelines in Scripture detailing that a man must attend to the needs of his wife and vice versa. Even within Paul’s discourse in 1 Corinthians 7, he never even implies that a man should separate conjugally from his wife for the purpose of ministry and what he does say, he says by “…permission, and not of commandment” (1 Corinthians 7:6). There is no excuse for TPM to be casting burdens on married couples. There are many married men of God, men who are in complete servitude to God, and yet they are married and fulfill their obligations to their wives as God has called them to do. No one should have to “leave the ministry” to get married. It’s a silly and manmade doctrine that TPM has produced.

    **Divine Healing – James fifth chapter says: If somebody is sick, they have to call the elders of the church.**

    If we are going to stick to the wooden literality of the verses then that would mean that everyone the elders pray for will be “saved” and all would be “raised up.” Yet, we know this isn’t the case. Although we should all obey this mandate and anoint and pray for the sick, there is nothing in Scripture which even implies that we should refrain from doctors. TPM has caused many well-intentioned people to die due to their misinterpretations of Scripture. Jesus said it clearly, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick.” In other words, if one is not well, one needs a physician. TPM constantly misuses 2 Chronicles 6:12 to implant the idea that one shouldn’t seek medical help to be within God’s perfect will. TPM rationalizes that—for one to be “perfect”—they must trust God and God alone for healing. Yet, they don’t understand that the “physicians” Asa sought were not medical doctors, but pagan priests who used occult methods for healing. Furthermore, they completely ignore that Asa’s “…heart was perfect with the Lord ALL his days” (1 Kings 15:14; 2 Chronicles 15:17). Again, TPM is to fault for the death of many.
    There are thousands of people die even after taking medicine. Do you blame the Doctor’s for it? So why just blame this church only?

    **There are thousands of cases (with diseases such as Cancer, Asthma and Diabetes have been healed by God…Still Medical Science is struggling to find permanent remedy/cure for these sicknesses). I have personally met such cases.**

    God is sovereign. He can do what He wants. If He wants to cure someone, He can. If He doesn’t want to cure someone, He doesn’t have to. Just because God can heal, it doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t see a doctor. I have seen healings and praise God for them, but again, it doesn’t mean that we can’t see a doctor. TPM has no Scriptural evidence to prove that one shouldn’t rely on a doctor. Again, it isn’t those who are well who need a doctor, but those who are sick.

    **Of course nobody should claim, “We are perfect”, “We are Going to New Jerusalem and Zion” “We have the Deeper Doctrines”, because spritual pride may cause you to become a victim of satan. **

    One doesn’t have to express these verbally to be accused of “spiritual pride.” TPM teaches a standard that imposes a “spiritual pride” via that standard. Yet, through over 2,000 years of church history, no one has taught that this standard is valid. They always preach a standard of “perfection.” They always preach a standard of attaining the “New Jerusalem and Zion.” They always preach a standard where they claim “deeper doctrines.” By doing so, they impose this belief INTO their members, thus producing a “spiritual pride” that is masked by false humility. During my days with New Testament Church (TPM) this was real. This was ALWAYS present.

    **If somebody can follow God closely (with whole heart) and without being forced by somebody or even by a Church, then God will accept your “Walk with God”**

    Yet, there is still a standard that we must follow, that being the written Word of God, the Scriptures. We don’t follow God via our own righteousness because, according to Isaiah 64:6, our righteousness is “filthy rags” (literally “menstrual cloths”). We follow God in “spirit and TRUTH” (John 4:23-24) and not by a way that seems right to the man (Proverbs 16:25). Besides, the issue isn’t what God will or won’t accept, but TPM’s misinterpretation of Scripture and the unnecessary burdens they put on their members, all done under their misleading concepts of “perfection”, “New Jerusalem and Zion”, and “deeper doctrines.”

    **For your info I am not a member of this church or trying to defend them.**

    Of which I believe much of it is indefensible.

    **We have to just compare the doctrines with Word of God only.**

    Which, I believe, I have done.

    Peace,
    Ray


  438. To Churchmouse

    Suppose I agree with you on the TPM philosophy or whatever English word you use.
    I have a question for you but please do not answer immediately in the heat of the moment as you know blogging is just as talking and the Bible says that we have to give account of every word and it is written in the book of remembrance.

    Suppose you die and go to heaven. While in heaven you come across TPM pastors and believers, what will you do?

    I can see the anger, hatred, resentment in the blog that you are writing. Out of the abundance of the heart, word proceed from the mouth is the bible saying. Will you go to heaven, if you have these things in your heart?

    Will you be able to live with them?

    As you are a minister and a teacher, just think of who has benefitted with all this rhetoric.

    I will repeat again
    Read Acts 5:26-40
    38And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought:
    39But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God.

    I would just say that be faithful unto your calling. If your calling is to be a minister or teacher of the Baptist then so be it.

    Couple of wise saying I heard and practice –
    Never throw dirt on other people as some of them may fall on you too.
    Lead or follow or get out of the way so as not to be a stumblingblock.

    Read Romans 14:4
    Who art thou that judgest another man’s servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.


  439. I THINK THAT THESE PEOPLE ARE MINISTERS IN OTHER DENOMINATIONS.

    THEY ARE WRITING ALL THESE TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY HAVE SOMEONE JOINED TO THEIR GROUP.

    I FEEL THIS IS THE ONLY REASON.

    ELSE, WHY SHOULD SOMEONE FALL BACK OF TPM, LEAVING THEIR WORK ASIDE. WHY SHOULD THEY BE OFFENDED BY TPM.

    AS A MATTER OF FACT, TPM IS THE LARGEST DENOMINATION IN PENTECOSTAL GROUP. IF SOMEONE AGREE TO THIS, IT ALSO CONFIRMS THAT THESE LARGER GROUP OF PEOPLE HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH WHATEVER THEY ARE TAUGHT AND PRACTISE.

    SO, FRANKLY SPEAKING, I DONT SEE ANY REAL REASON BEHIND THIS BLOG AND THOSE WRITERS WHO SIMPLY ADD RUBBISHES.

    REGARDS TO ALL
    JACOB


  440. **Suppose I agree with you on the TPM philosophy or whatever English word you use.
    I have a question for you but please do not answer immediately in the heat of the moment as you know blogging is just as talking and the Bible says that we have to give account of every word and it is written in the book of remembrance.**

    I’m not angry. I don’t know how you can determine that it is “heated” from a bunch of typed words. There is no animosity towards TPM, it’s members or it’s ministers.

    **Suppose you die and go to heaven. While in heaven you come across TPM pastors and believers, what will you do? **

    Rejoice! No one said that they were going to hell. If they make it to heaven, it will be only because of Christ, in spite of their teachings.

    **I can see the anger, hatred, resentment in the blog that you are writing. Out of the abundance of the heart, word proceed from the mouth is the bible saying. Will you go to heaven, if you have these things in your heart?**

    Hate? Resentment? Again, I don’t see how you can determine this from a blog. Again, there is no animosity towards TPM. I am just carrying out my responsibility as a follower of Christ to expose false doctrine.

    **Will you be able to live with them?**

    Do you mean in heaven? Of course! I pray that all the ministers and members will be there. However, again, it will only be because God is merciful and in spite of what TPM teaches. Those who knew they were teaching falsely, but negated it, will be held accountable. Overall, I don’t think I would notice anyone else but Christ, once I’m in heaven.

    **As you are a minister and a teacher, just think of who has benefitted with all this rhetoric.**

    The only “benefit” I see is that someone will be honest and realize that what I say is true. The things which I have spoken of are part and parcel of TPM and those who are members know what I’m talking about. I don’t have to be a minister or a teacher to carry out my responsibility as a Christian. And, by the way, this isn’t “rhetoric.” Rhetoric would entail that I misrepresented TPM. However, everything I’ve said about TPM is true. Nothing speaks better than experience and I was a member of TPM for many years. Now, you seem to have a tendency to judge my actions, but you haven’t attempted to refute what I’ve said. Instead of trying to judge me, when you don’t know me, why don’t you try to disprove what I’ve written about? Otherwise, it seems that the only rhetoric here is yours.

    **I will repeat again
    Read Acts 5:26-40
    38And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought:
    39But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God.**

    I don’t know what the verse has to do with me or TPM. Gamaliel was defending the Apostles and mention two insurrectionists, Theudas and Judas of Galilee, stating that they both fell. He told the Sanhedrin that—if they weren’t of God—they would fall too. This was the Apostles and not TPM. You cannot compare the two. Using your logic of the verses, why haven’t the Jehovah’s Witnesses fallen? Why haven’t the Mormons? Existence isn’t evidence that a denomination is God-sanctioned.

    **I would just say that be faithful unto your calling. If your calling is to be a minister or teacher of the Baptist then so be it. **

    If you want me to be faithful to my calling than you would understand why I must call false doctrine “false.” As a minister and teacher, God would hold me accountable if I close my eyes to what others teach.

    **Couple of wise saying I heard and practice –
    Never throw dirt on other people as some of them may fall on you too.
    Lead or follow or get out of the way so as not to be a stumblingblock.**

    Isn’t that what you just did? You threw dirt on me, considering you didn’t attempt to prove that what I say is false. You can’t just claim that someone has an agenda against TPM without first proving that what they say is wrong. Bro, take the log out of your own eye. I’m not speaking from non-experience, but FROM experience. I know what TPM teaches. I know the legalism it inundates their believers with. I know their issues with doctors and medicine. I know their issues with marriage. I know how their ministers, whether knowingly or unknowingly, set the dynamics that cause their members to become dependent on them, rather than practice any true spiritual discernment. And, most of all, I know how they misconstrue Scripture, reading their own preconceptions back into Scripture. Again, you seem to judge me, but you don’t attempt to prove that what I say is wrong.

    **Read Romans 14:4
    Who art thou that judgest another man’s servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand**

    Which is in the context of weaker brothers and how one’s liberty can cause him to be offended. Using your logic, I guess that I should not critique Catholics, Mormons, Jehovah’s Witnesses, etc. because, again using your logic, I shouldn’t judge what they teach, especially if they have a form of godliness. Using your logic, I guess the early church really got it wrong when they exposed the Arians, Pelagians, Gnostics, etc. and Paul got it wrong too when he rebuked the Galatians for falling away from the true gospel.

    Bro, if you are going to judge my heart in the matter, make sure you know what you’re talking about.

    Peace,
    Ray


  441. **I THINK THAT THESE PEOPLE ARE MINISTERS IN OTHER DENOMINATIONS.**

    I said that I was a Baptist. There is nothing to think about.

    **THEY ARE WRITING ALL THESE TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY HAVE SOMEONE JOINED TO THEIR GROUP.**

    I write what I write because truth is important to me. I am not trying to get anyone to join my “group.”

    **I FEEL THIS IS THE ONLY REASON.**

    You mean that “truth” isn’t a reason?

    **ELSE, WHY SHOULD SOMEONE FALL BACK OF TPM, LEAVING THEIR WORK ASIDE. WHY SHOULD THEY BE OFFENDED BY TPM.**

    I’m on a two-week “Spring” vacation from school. TPM doesn’t offend me. It is their “TEACHINGS” which I find odd and not representative of orthodox Christianity.

    **AS A MATTER OF FACT, TPM IS THE LARGEST DENOMINATION IN PENTECOSTAL GROUP.**

    Maybe in India, but worldwide it is the Assemblies of God. They are the largest Pentecostal group. The size of a church doesn’t prove that they teach doctrine correctly.

    **IF SOMEONE AGREE TO THIS, IT ALSO CONFIRMS THAT THESE LARGER GROUP OF PEOPLE HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH WHATEVER THEY ARE TAUGHT AND PRACTISE.**

    Wrong! A church can be large and STILL teach falsely to a LARGE number of people. I don’t know how you would reason that size matters.

    **SO, FRANKLY SPEAKING, I DONT SEE ANY REAL REASON BEHIND THIS BLOG AND THOSE WRITERS WHO SIMPLY ADD RUBBISHES.**

    Frankly speaking, I don’t know why you posted this post. It proves nothing other than someone who judges without giving any reason why he judges. To make the claims you do without substantiating why you did it, says more about you than the people you judge.

    Peace,
    Ray


  442. To Christian,

    Moreover, even the TPM workers have many Millions in the TPM Trust! Land and buildings whose value alone amounts several Billions across the globe!! No more “faith for rice or jeerakam” needed. They have “servants” to wash, cook, massage the legs; their dwelling place has carpeted floors, western closets and toiletries; food includes Chicken-in-coconut-milk Kerala menu; They dress in Cambrique cotton jibbas and sarees; have cars with A/c; they use sunglasses, Singapore Towels, VIP suitcases and bags, bathroom slippers, cots with cushion mattresses, fruit juice at regular intervals, regular laundry of curtains, Bed sheets and pillow covers, china dishes and cups, machines for Grinding, mixing and juice-making. The list could continue!

    “Seek ye first the kingdom of God, and all these things shall be added unto you”

    This applies to everyone not just for so called “tpm workers”.

    The above verse sums up God’s nature. Moreover, God is unchanging in His nature. Even now, He looks at the heart and not the external appearance.

    Why dont you then, wear a banyan-torn jeans and goto office or preach the gospel?? Anways God looks within your heart?? Why arent you comfortable with the woman folks of your family wearing latest fasion clothes or even bikinis and move around?? Anyways God looks within your heart….??

    Brother, “What you are from within reflects outside too, not only the behaviour but also the way you appear”

    And the bible also says again,

    A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; [1 timothy 3:2]

    1 timothy chap3rd is for them who got the calling after thier wedding; “should be husband of ONE wife” otherwise it would have been a LAW or a COMMAND as:—

    “SHOULD BE MARRIED”….

    Otherwise, if you say that it should be, then you are twisting the scriptures for the CHOICE. I also percieve it as “if the BISHOP should be husband of ONE wife”, THEN MAY BE…. “THE BELIEVERS IN YOUR CHURCH CAN HAVE MORE THAN ONE WIFE” what do you say ABOUT THAT… GOOD???? You percieve it that way AS PER YOUR CHOICE, and I percieve it as my way…

    BUT REMEMBER… ITS NOT MY WAY OR YOUR WAY… ITS THE SPIRITUAL WAY AS PER THE PERFECT WILL OF GOD CONCERNING THE EXEMPLARY SPIRITUAL LEADERS.

    As far as staying single is concerned, its more of a “suggestion” by St Paul, because it kind of frees you from other responsibilities associated with having a family. But it is no where a command.

    A family person can be an effective Christian witness, and someone THROUGH WHOM Christ works and transform the world.

    I think I explained about celibate-apostleship very well in my previous posts which you might have missed out. Even you agree that it was just a suggestion not a command and at the same time you also agree that St. Paul was highly zealous for Christ that he decided to live LIKE Christ. You also know that Christ remained celibate untill His crucifixion (unless u blive in the stupid story of Dan Brown). So whats wrong if someone has decided to live like christ as a celibate apostle just like St. Paul did???

    To Mohan,

    Thirdly, 1 Corinthians 9:5 says, “5Don’t we have the right to take a believing wife along with us, as do the other apostles and the Lord’s brothers and Cephas[a]?

    Mohanji,

    Read 1 Cor 9:5 again, THIS IS ONLY a question-“Dont we…??” NOT a command, NOT an order, NOT an advice, NOT even a suggestion. Do you need answer to this question which was answered??

    Read on the following lines.. the entire chapter for the answers.

    1 Corinthians 9: 12:
    “Nevertheless, WE have not made use of this right, but we endure anything rather than put an obstacle in the way of the gospel of Christ.”

    Again he says in 1 Corinthians 9: 15:

    “15But I have not used any of these rights.”

    NOT USED THE RIGHT to work, marry (to take a believing wife along with) etc etc…. as mentioned rather asked in 1 Corinthians 9: 1 onwards… BECAUSE IT WILL CAUSE HINDRANCE IN THE GOSPEL WORK as mentioned in the same verse. –

    ”But we did not use this right. On the contrary, we put up with anything rather than hinder the gospel of Christ.”

    To Rajan,

    PLEASE THINK…AND YOU CAN SEE THE TRUTH.

    Rajanji,

    By saying “please think”, you are trying to convince. This reminds me of the IT Marketing Exec who often say “try and think”, “please try to percieve”, “if you think deeply, you can indeed…” You cant THINK and know the truth. Yes this is possible for those who try and study or analyse gospel as they do in the Bible Colleges. They study the gospel as they study Physics, Biology or any other subject. They come up with criticism and debates. They, like fools STUDY and ANALYSE the the Holy Word ending up in arrogance, dirty attitude towards fellow Christians, pointing fingers at others and NO PERSONAL-RELATIONSHIP with God.

    PLEASE READ THE WORD CAREFULLY AND PRAY TO GOD THAT HE MAY OPEN YOUR INNER EYES OF UNDERSTANDING.

    Cheers,
    Jim


  443. To Jim,

    I am not the same guy named Christian who wrote about the singapore towels and fruit juices etc (heck who doesn’t use that these days in India?)

    I say to you onething, You should have read from my post that I am not a reader of Dan Brown and I never said Jesus married, Do not make such blasphemous accusations on me.

    If you wan’t to marry or not marry it is your choice, you can free up more time for full time ministry (dont’ end up sleeping with one of the women in the ministry if you can’t control your urges), or you can marry and serve God with your family. It is up to you.

    It is faith in Jesus Christ, and grace of Jesus Christ that saves a person, not wether he wears a white shirt and white pants, and does not marry.

    Not marrying wont make you a more holier person or give you “Extra heaven” than those who marry. It is your choice.

    Don’t get too legalistic about it, and tell your screaming pentecostal pastors who like to control their folks instead of letting holy spirit control their folks, use cunningness, manipulation, spiritual blackmailing to keep them under their control.

    Pentecostalism in kerala is a TOTAL WRECK and 70% of itis nothing but fake. The Baptist, Evangelical and Even some of the born again Catholics etc got better gentless and faith than you have.

    You are the taleban of Christianity. Let me tell pentecostal mullahs like you once again, JESUS CHRIST IS LORD, AND ONLY FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST AND HIS WORD WILL SAVE YOU, NOT TPM KERALA period. I bow my knee before Jesus Christ, not before your Pentecostal Taleban Mullahs.


  444. Bro Christian,

    You are taking it in the other way round. You want to get offended so its that way. I never said you are a Dan Brown Reader… I said “unless you…”

    and tell your screaming pentecostal pastors who like to control their folks instead of letting holy spirit control their folks, use cunningness, manipulation, spiritual blackmailing to keep them under their control.

    Why should I tell them?? why dont you tell them?? As far as I know they dont control and blah blah whatever you mentioned up there. Infact to my amazement, a pastor who had come from Saudi Arabia last Tuesday, in Ville Parle Church (Mumbai), told not to clap hands and disturb others… but rather fill in the spirit… “you dont need to be clapping hands to get filled in the holy spirit”

    They even scold us when we go to them for getting prayed again and again. They just blatanly tell us GO HOME and pray yourself with faith and grab the blessings from the Lord. They even tell us to go and preach the gospel and win the souls for His kingdom.

    Pentecostalism in kerala is a TOTAL WRECK and 70% of itis nothing but fake.

    I fully agree with that. Its all about show offs. They have got a Bible college there somewhere in a place called “Kumanatta” where young boys go and train their brain to exercise against the new soul’s perception and and all that which I mentioned up there.

    “They, like fools are made to STUDY and ANALYSE the the Holy Word ending up in debates, arrogance, dirty attitude towards fellow Christians, pointing fingers at others and NO PERSONAL-RELATIONSHIP with God”

    If you come across a Panjabi or a Himachal fellow Christian, they are far superior in faith than any other so called malayalee “Pastors” and malayalee Bible-college student. I have greater respect for North Indian and Maharastrian believers even though they have not read Bible as a whole from beginning to end. Its thier faith as a “mustard seed” which reflects BEAUTY in thier life and not so called KNOWLEDGE. We have so much to learn from them.

    Even I am a malayalee, born in Kerela but brought up in Pune and now in Mumbai. Its since almost 7 yrs I’ve been away from Kerela now. But I never indulge too much into malayalee pentacostal discussions as I know its all show-off of thier pride of knowledge but reflects NOTHING in thier life.


  445. TO ALL BLOG READERS AND WRITERS

    WHOSOEVER BLAME A PERSON, AN INSTITUTION, A NATION, A RELIGION, A COMMUNITY, FINALLY IS AN ACCUSER.
    AN ACCUSER HAVE NO PLACE IN HEAVEN. SATAN IS AN ACCUSER, WHO ACCUSES CHILD OF GOD, DAY AND NIGHT BEFORE GOD.

    ALL YOU PEOPLE WHO ACCUSE ALSO FOLLOW SATAN’S PATH IN ACCUSING TPM’S DOCTRINE, TPM’S MINISTER ETC

    NOW YOU MAY CLAIM, WE ARE HIGHLIGHTING THE WRONG DOINGS OF TPM (AS YOU CLAIM). BUT OPEN YOUR BIBLE AND SEE WHAT JESUS DID

    A WOMEN WAS BROUGHT TO HIM CAUGHT IN WRONG DEEDS. ALL THE PHARISEES AND SADUCEES WANTED TO KNOW WHAT JESUS THOUGHT ON THIS. JESUS SAID, ” LET THE MAN THROW THE FIRST STONE, WHO HAS DID NO SIN”. NONE OF THEM COULD THROW. ALL OF THEM HAD SOME WRONG THINGS IN THEIR LIFE.

    SIMILARLY, ALL OF YOU WOULD HAVE SOME SINS IN YOUR LIFE FOR SURE… SO …….I HOPE YOU UNDERSTOOD……

    ALSO, JESUS KNEW THE WRONG THINGS OF THIS WOMEN’S LIFE. HE DID NOT HIGHLIGHTED IT. HE DID NOT PUBLISHED IT. NIETHER HE WANTED TO CORRECT HER BY TELLING HER THAT YOU DID WRONG. HE ONLY SAID ” GO IN PEACE, DONT DO IT AGAIN”.

    SO, IF YOU GUYS ARE REAL FOLLOWER OF JESUS, YOU SHOULD NOT ACCUSE THEM OR HIGHLIGHT THEIR SINS AND MISTAKES (EVEN IF THEY HAD), RATHER PRAY FOR THEM THAT YOU TOO MIGHT BE SAVED.

    I HOPE THIS BLOG HAVE NO FURTHER REASON TO CONTINUE AND NO READER OR WRITER HAVE ANY BETTER CLARIFICATION, BASED ON THE ABOVE MATTER.

    REGARDS TO ALL
    JACOB


  446. Jacob,

    You continue to prove my point. I don’t know if you are a member of TPM or not, but your behavior isn’t any different than their’s. Rather than give a defense, you appeal to emotions. You employ a fallacy, an appeal to pity.

    Secondly, you misuse Scripture by bringing up something which has nothing to do with the issues. The woman was about to be stoned by sinners. This was Christ’s way of bringing attention to their hypocrisy. However, my intention has nothing to do with hypocrisy, but with false teaching. The Scriptures that apply are…

    I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel; which is really not another; only there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed! As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be accursed! (Galatians1:6-9)

    For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their OWN DESIRES, and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths. (2 Timothy 4:3-4)

    All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for REPROOF, for CORRECTION, for training in righteousness; so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work. (2 Timothy 3:16-17)

    preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; REPROVE, REBUKE, EXHORT, with great patience and instruction. (2 Timothy 4:2)

    And one that I would encourage everyone to do…

    STUDY to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness. (2 Timothy 2:15-16)

    I would only encourage you to put aside your “feelings”, open your eyes and look at what’s going on around you. Look at the what is being taught and practice good hermeneutics and exegesis when interpreting Scripture. Don’t put your brain aside and rationalize “Well, these people are holy and know more than I do; therefore I must submit to their teachings.”

    For we walk by faith, NOT by sight. (2 Corinthians 5:7)

    Peace,
    Ray


  447. Jacob,

    God bless you, PASKHE, namalku idu discussion cheyanum. So thanks to Rachel Chitra, we are going to discuss this deeper and so deeper, adondu orakam kanlchu poya, we are really for this.

    And now we are not the satan here, but YOU definitely are the Taleban of Christianity, and workers of INIQUITY, learn what love is.

    I have been involved in the T P M.


  448. Dear ChurchMouse,


  449. Dear Churchmouse,
    I did not appreciate that you say ministers can’t think for themselves. I especially did not appreciate that you used Psa. Chuck as an example! First of all I would like you to know that th bible says that in the multitude of council ther is safety…so that my dear churchmouse is why he wanted to check w/ NJ! Not b/c he can’t think for hmself….You should appreciated the fact that he wanted to be able to give you the best answer so you wouldn’t be more confused!!! Also withe the ancient there is wisdom..so others who have been in the Lord could help..with the answer…When someone asks my son a question he does’t know…its only natural for him t ask me for my input,b/c I am older would be able to help. not b/c e can’t think for himself !!! So please don’t use peoples names on here & have people think wrong of them…


  450. Dear Rachelchitra,

    Well well….Hi there my Girl, My little Indian Atheist .
    How r u doing? …. ha ha ha….ha ………..ha !!

    U r indeed amazing. I had underestimated ur talents, but i’d have to agree that HE was the one who gave u that. Well all i had to was just change ur focus..

    Huh silly Mortal woman, did u not read n learn ….in the creation of the world I did.. take the precious couple DOWN. By the time i was done with them, he who was made by the very hand’s of Love, turned rotten, stale & pail. ha ha ha …. Yes he lived for 900 yr, not knowing what if felt to be alive.

    Tell me some thing, do u think Adm was a believer or an atheist after his epic saga…..

    Do u think i would spare u?….u shadow of his former cell.

    When i did not leave him, who was created by HIS hands.
    u are not an asset to me, but yes a tool.

    I have repeated history many times… once when the earth was new. & now in ur life. turning the creation against the creator.

    I has told HIM, that it was all in vain to put efforts in to the dust of the earth & create. For what HE shall create i shall rule over.

    Look…for 20 years… u looked at HIS face, but ;0) i was the one who stood before ur eyes, watching u fall a sleep..every night, feeding u with anger, nurturing u with HATE for HIM.

    Hah u R ..the craft of my fingers, ur heart beats for me & me alone, that blood that runs in ur veins scream my name..

    speaking of it…..Do u know what is my NAME ? .. ask ur
    heart. in the beauty of silences…. .. u will hear a reverberation of my name.

    I long to perfect u in my stature, my little Girl Daddy is biG bad n E**L.

    Ur next state to do my will is ….. that u will feel that ur r just an multi- celled-organism, created by me formula of natural selection.. & have evolved. u r just an animal with the gift of speech & ****.

    I abide in u & u in me… every time u look @ the mirror its not ur reflection but mine. Ur heart is my drawing board.. & ur body is my instrument. Oh what can i say.. but .. I’m in-Love with u.

    HE still thinks that HE could take u away for me precious. but i promise Daddy is here to say…….ha .. ha ..HA.. HA..
    i wont give u up… with out a FIGHT…

    well even if i did loose u.. what does it matter ur still a multi- celled-organism created by Natural selection.

    {Well… i just want to say a few lines to HIM..
    hey U up there … if u want her come n her ….get her…}

    Well my love,
    have NO fear cos Daddy (evil) is hear(beside u 4 ever).

    sign
    (Hades)..
    A.K.A – Daddy

    PS: I’m an atheist too. ;0)


  451. **I did not appreciate that you say ministers can’t think for themselves. I especially did not appreciate that you used Psa. Chuck as an example! First of all I would like you to know that th bible says that in the multitude of council ther is safety…so that my dear churchmouse is why he wanted to check w/ NJ! **

    What is there to check with NJ about? Scripture is very clear on this. It states that Asa was perfect ALL of his life. That means when he sought the physicians, he was STILL perfect. Chuck had no REASON to check with NJ regarding something which Scripture was so clear about. He should have submitted to the Scriptural evidence rather than try to find an excuse from NJ. I was involved in TPM long enough to know that EVERYTHING is filtered through their upper authorities and, unfortunately, that means that they CANNOT decide for themselves. There is no allowance for the Holy Spirit to “illumine” them if they are only going to submit to these authorities without question.

    **Not b/c he can’t think for hmself….You should appreciated the fact that he wanted to be able to give you the best answer so you wouldn’t be more confused!!! Also withe the ancient there is wisdom..so others who have been in the Lord could help..with the answer…**

    And WHERE, pray tell me, is the INDIVIDUAL allowed to interpret Scripture for himself? There is nothing wrong with seeking godly men, especially those who have a proven track record of proper interpretation and advice, but this isn’t the case with TPM, considering their issues with doctors and marriage. Again, if Scripture is clear regarding Asa’s perfection, what is there to ask?

    **When someone asks my son a question he does’t know…its only natural for him t ask me for my input,b/c I am older would be able to help. not b/c e can’t think for himself !!! So please don’t use peoples names on here & have people think wrong of them…**

    That’s a bad analogy. A father and son’s relationship is vastly different than a minister and church member. Yet, in both instances, a father or a minister can be WRONG. The issue isn’t whether someone wants advice on a certain matter, but if something is being taught properly, truthfully, and without inflicting the preconceived bias they were taught. In this instance, Chuck saw that Asa was “perfect before the Lord ALL the days of his life.” Considering TPM’s stance on “perfection” and how this plays into one’s relationship with God, it becomes very clear that the “perfection” TPM teaches ISN’T the “perfection” Scripture teaches because Asa was “perfect” even when he sought the physicians. Chuck had no excuse.

    In ending, “Chuck” is a first name. Many of the readers here won’t recognize him because there are many “Chucks” in this world. I forgot Chuck’s last name, but I will guarantee you that if I ever DO remember, I will post his last name also. I am not a compromiser and I will NOT play games with people who teach wrongly. I will expose false teaching for what it is and I will name those who teach them. Just like Jesus exposed the Pharisees and the Apostles expose the heretics, I will do the same. You shouldn’t allow your emotions to downplay what was evidently a WRONG situation.

    Peace,
    Ray


  452. Dear Rachelchitra,

    Well well….Hi there my Girl, My little Indian Atheist .
    How r u doing? …. ha ha ha….ha ………..ha !!

    U r indeed amazing. I had underestimated ur talents, but I’d have to agree that HE was the one who gave u that. Well all i had to was just change ur focus..

    Huh silly Mortal woman, did u not read n learn ….in the creation of the world I did.. take the precious couple DOWN. By the time i was done with them, he who was made by the very hands of Love, turned rotten, stale & pail. ha ha ha …. Yes he lived for 900 yr, not knowing what it felt to be alive.

    Tell me some thing, do u think Adam was a believer or an atheist after his epic saga…..

    Do u think i would spare u?….u shadow of his former cell.

    When i did not leave him, who was created by HIS hands.
    u are not an asset to me, but yes a tool.

    I have repeated history many times… once when the earth was new. & now in ur life. Turning the creation against the creator.

    I has told HIM, that it was all in vain to put efforts in to the dust of the earth & create. For what HE shall create i shall rule over.

    Look…for 20 years… u looked at HIS face, but ;0) i was the one who stood before ur eyes, watching u fall a sleep..Every night, feeding u with anger, nurturing u with HATE for HIM.

    Hah u R..The craft of my fingers, ur heart beats for me & me alone, that blood that runs in ur veins scream my name..

    speaking of it…..Do u know what is my NAME ? .. ask ur
    heart. in the beauty of silences…. .. u will hear a reverberation of my name.

    I long to perfect u in my stature, my little Girl, Daddy is biG, bad n E**L.

    Ur next state to do my will is ….. that u will feel that ur r just an multi- celled-organism, created by me formula of natural selection.. & have evolved. u r just an animal with the gift of speech & ****.

    I abide in u & u in me… every time u look @ the mirror its not ur reflection but mine. Ur heart is my drawing board.. & ur body is my instrument. Oh what can i say.. but .. I’m in-Love with u.

    HE still thinks that HE could take u away for me precious. but i promise Daddy is here to say…….ha .. ha ..HA.. HA..
    i wont give u up… with out a FIGHT…

    well even if i did loose u.. what does it matter ur still a multi- celled-organism created by Natural selection.

    {Well… i just want to say a few lines to HIM..
    “hey U up there … if u want her, come n ….get her”…}

    Well my love,
    have NO fear cos Daddy (evil) is hear(beside u 4 ever).

    sign
    (Hades)..
    A.K.A – Daddy


  453. Dear Rachelchitra,

    Well well….Hi there my Girl, My little Indian Atheist .
    How r u doing? …. ha ha ha….ha ………..ha !!

    U r indeed amazing. I had underestimated ur talents, but I’d have to agree that HE was the one who gave u that. Well all i had to was just change ur focus..

    Huh silly Mortal woman, did u not read n learn ….in the creation of the world I did.. take the precious couple DOWN. By the time i was done with them, he who was made by the very hands of Love, turned rotten, stale & pail. ha ha ha …. Yes he lived for 900 yr, not knowing what it felt to be alive.

    Tell me some thing, do u think Adam was a believer or an atheist after his epic saga…..

    Do u think i would spare u?….u shadow of his former cell.

    When i did not leave him, who was created by HIS hands.
    u are not an asset to me, but yes a tool.

    I have repeated history many times… once when the earth was new. & now in ur life. Turning the creation against the creator.

    I has told HIM, that it was all in vain to put efforts in to the dust of the earth & create. For what HE shall create i shall rule over.

    Look…for 20 years… u looked at HIS face, but ;0) i was the one who stood before ur eyes, watching u fall a sleep..Every night, feeding u with anger, nurturing u with HATE for HIM.

    Hah u R..The craft of my fingers, ur heart beats for me & me alone, that blood that runs in ur veins scream my name..

    speaking of it…..Do u know what is my NAME ? .. ask ur
    heart. in the beauty of silences…. .. u will hear a reverberation of my name.

    I long to perfect u in my stature, my little Girl, Daddy is biG, bad n E**L.

    Ur next state to do my will is ….. that u will feel that ur r just an multi- celled-organism, created by me formula of natural selection.. & have evolved. u r just an animal with the gift of speech & ****.

    I abide in u & u in me… every time u look @ the mirror its not ur reflection but mine. Ur heart is my drawing board.. & ur body is my instrument. Oh what can i say.. but .. I’m in-Love with u.

    HE still thinks that HE could take u away for me precious. but i promise Daddy is here to say…….ha .. ha ..HA.. HA..
    i wont give u up… with out a FIGHT…

    well even if i did loose u.. what does it matter ur still a multi- celled-organism created by Natural selection.

    {Well… i just want to say a few lines to HIM..
    “hey U up there … if u want her, come n ….get her”…}

    Well my love,
    have NO fear cos Daddy (evil) is hear(beside u 4 ever).

    sign
    (Hades)..
    A.K.A – Daddy

    PS: I’m an atheist too. ;0)…..Happy Easter… i’ll c u @ home


  454. I do not write to judge anyone. I never intended to judge you too. I am sorry if I gave you the impression. When I am quoting from something from the Bible it is not because TPM is referenced over there. Those are allegory which can be connected to any church / denomination. If you cannot see the parallel I am sorry I cannot help you there.

    From what you are saying in this blog I get the impression that there is only one church that is true and perfect. I just want to know which church is that – is it Baptist?. Do you know why are there so many churches in the world? The teaching and the rules of each and every one of them is different. By your standard, all the other churches including Pentecostal are teaching false doctrines. And God has raised you as teacher so you can pin point their false teaching.

    There is a reason God did not setup as single church as a perfect church. I do not think any churches has any wrong teaching even the Jehovah Witness. Do you think Jehovah Witness people will go to Hell? God raises up new churches by giving them a specific revelation about himself. If he reveals everything about himself to one church then they will become proud like the fallen angels.

    Certain group of people believed on the Acts 2 chapter experiences and began receiving the Holy Spirit. This group were called the Pentecostal and the whole church world at that time began to criticize them and call them all kind of name including cult. If you read Acts properly you see all the (heightened trance-like euphoria during prayer meetings- your phrase). It was this same trance that Peter had before he went to Cornelius and Paul said the same thing about 3rd heaven. Because these Pentecostals believed and began to pray so that others too may have this experiences, now you see that somebody in every church is experiencing the power of Holy Spirit. When the Apostle’s received the anointing of the Holy Spirit, they made so much sound that people began to crowd around. (you can read it in the books of Acts). There are other same instances in the book of Acts. So there is nothing new in calling TPM or Pentecostal cult or other names.

    If the TPM believes in the doctrine of Divine healing rather than Doctors then it their teaching. If you call these a false teaching then I will say that you have never experienced the power of God. You did not have the faith at the time of you child’s sickness because you were new and never knew about the God’s healing power. If you read the Gospel, most of the time, Christ went about healing people. Even after having so many examples about Christ’s power of healing, people are reluctant to trust him for healing of their bodies. That is ok. Everybody cannot trust in God for healing especially when they bodies hurt and the pain is unbearable. But TPM teaches it believer to trust in GOD for healing. There are few people in TPM who trust in God for healing and there are people also who do not trust in God for healing. Faith in God is your individual experience. Just because you do not have faith to experience God power of healing in your life does not give the authority to say that what TPM is teaching is false doctrines. Hebrew chapter 11 is all about Faith. In that chapter upto verse 35 it talks about how God helped them in every way but from verse 36 onward it talks about how people did not get their prayers answered but they received a good report. Some people get healed some don’t that is totally in the hands of God. He is a respector of no person.


  455. Bro,

    Somewhere in this exchange—what is being lost—is the reason why I decided to post what I have posted. There is no “personal” feeling involved; neither am I on a vendetta against TPM. All too often, people are too “protective” and cannot see past their own “feelings” to determine when something is wrong. Yet, as Christians, especially those of us who hold to Sola Scriptura, we must let the Scriptures weigh what is right and what is wrong. Yet, this is the problem here! That some are determined to defend TPM rather than understand why others feel negatively towards their doctrines and practices. Some argue with emotions rather than allow Scripture to weigh truth. Scripture becomes a byproduct and subservient to their emotions. But isn’t this also a problem with TPM? All too often, emotionalism is mistaken for a work of the Holy Spirit. Why do I say this? Because when one is more interested in defending a church, it is very probable that they would not be able to understand the issues brought up. Emotion rules the day and what really matters is lost.

    No, there is no “perfect church.” The church is made up of imperfect people, so how can a church be perfect? Only Christ is perfect. Yes, I am a Baptist and I would never claim that Baptist theology is perfect. Yet, you are in error when you judge me as someone who is pointing out false doctrines amongst TPM and other Pentecostals. Let me tell you that if a Baptist church is teaching falsely (against Scripture) I would be the first to point it out. You don’t seem to understand that it isn’t about “churches” but about what Scripture teaches.

    What separates you and me is that I believe there is only one standard for the Christian and that standard is the Bible. Paul the Apostle thought that the Gospel was very important. It was so important that he rebuked the Galatians when they fell into a “false gospel.” He said…

    “I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel; which is really not another; only there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed! As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be accursed!” (Galatians1:6-9)

    Do you see how important truth is, bro? It is so important that Paul said that even if he or an angel preaches something other than the true gospel than LET HIM BE ACCURSED!! You asked about the Jehovah’s Witnesses. Well, let me ask you: Do they teach a true gospel? But you say that they are not teaching wrongly. Well, they don’t believe that Jesus is God, but a created being. Now is that true or false? Evidently, it is a false gospel and one that—like Paul said—is ACCURSED.

    Don’t make this a “Pentecostal” issue. In critical thinking, that is called a “red herring.” I have many dear brothers and sisters who are Pentecostals and godly examples of Christianity. I am speaking, specifically, of TPM and their errors and not Pentecostals. I am speaking of the issues TPM has with medicine and doctors (which has caused many deaths amongst their members) and the issues with enforced celibacy and marriage. I have issues with TPM’s view of ministry, especially when it dehumanizes a believer and impedes their relationship with the Holy Spirit. This is nothing but legalism and brainwashing. Many TPM members cannot exercise their liberty in Christ and are completely dependant on their ministers. There is NO excuse for this.

    I don’t know what Bible you’re reading but there is no “trance-like euphoria” on the part of any of the Apostles. I would dare you to show me any early writings corroborating your claim that the “3rd heaven” is a trance-like euphoria. The third heaven is just “heaven” (the first being the “sky”, the second being “space”, and the third being abode of God). This is further supported by vs. 4 which says he was in “Paradise.” Furthermore, it was a “vision” that Paul had and not some “trance-like euphoria.” I don’t know if this is what you are trying to say, but when Paul speaks of “inexpressible words, which is not lawful for a man to utter”, I hope you aren’t saying this is “speaking in tongues.” It can’t be considering that it is wrong for a man to “utter” (say) them. Thus, it must be that Paul was forbidden to repeat them.

    Acts 2 does not say that they made so much “sound’ that people began to surround them. It says that they were speaking in “known” tongues because those who surrounded them UNDERSTOOD what they were saying. The miracle was in the fact that they were speaking in languages that were unknown to them before the miracle. This is nothing like a TPM meeting. The fact is that Paul wanted “order” in the church and wrote about it in 1 Corinthians 14. TPM goes directly against it because everyone is emotional, loud, everyone is speaking in tongues, etc. Again, it seems that you are reading your beliefs INTO Scripture rather than allow them to speak for themselves.

    You said…

    **If the TPM believes in the doctrine of Divine healing rather than Doctors then it their teaching. If you call these a false teaching then I will say that you have never experienced the power of God.**

    So, if a person submits to the doctrine of TPM and dies there is nothing wrong with it because it is THEIR teaching??? Are you kidding me? Sorry, but it is a FALSE teaching and one that is based on a misinterpretation of Scripture and history. The Bible does not say that we cannot go to doctors and TPM misinterprets the pagan priests and their occult healing methods as medical doctors. The hypocrisy of the whole thing is that there are practicing doctors who attend TPM. Why doesn’t TPM stop them from practicing?

    You said…

    **You did not have the faith at the time of you child’s sickness because you were new and never knew about the God’s healing power.**

    That’s ridiculous! I had faith, but I also knew that God gave doctors the knowledge to heal and that I could save my daughter’s life through those he gave the knowledge of healing to.

    You said…

    **If you read the Gospel, most of the time, Christ went about healing people. Even after having so many examples about Christ’s power of healing, people are reluctant to trust him for healing of their bodies. That is ok.**

    That’s right! CHRIST heals people and Christ can continue to do so if He wills it. However, for TPM to instill false faith, contingent on “perfection”, is another part of a FALSE gospel. Only GOD can grant that kind of faith. This is why so many TPM members have died because they were basing their faith on TPM’s teaching rather than on Christ himself. TPM is wrong for urging believers “stand in faith” so that they can be “perfect” and creating a false faith that kills.

    You said…

    **Everybody cannot trust in God for healing especially when they bodies hurt and the pain is unbearable. But TPM teaches it believer to trust in GOD for healing. There are few people in TPM who trust in God for healing and there are people also who do not trust in God for healing.**

    But the overall pressure, coming from TPM, is to practice a false faith that usually leads to the death of an individual. Let’s put that in the proper perspective.

    You said…

    **Faith in God is your individual experience. Just because you do not have faith to experience God power of healing in your life does not give the authority to say that what TPM is teaching is false doctrines.**

    No, I say that TPM’s teaching on this matter is false because people are dying for no reason. Many attempt to attain a perfection with a false faith bred by TPM’s teaching when, in reality, their faith is a false one. Tell me, bro, where does Scripture teach that one can tempt God that way? Where does Scripture say that we should not go to doctors? Even Jesus said that it isn’t those who are well who need a physician, but those who are sick (Matthew 9:12). Give me examples throughout early church history where Christians neglected doctors for the sake of attaining a “perfect” faith. I’ll be waiting for your answer.

    You said…

    **Hebrew chapter 11 is all about Faith. In that chapter upto verse 35 it talks about how God helped them in every way but from verse 36 onward it talks about how people did not get their prayers answered but they received a good report. Some people get healed some don’t that is totally in the hands of God. He is a respector of no person.**

    Hebrews 11 speaks nothing of physical healing, but of the faith of the Old Testament saints, including the trials they endured. It says nothing about their prayers not being answered, but only that they didn’t receive “the promise”, which is the atoning work of Christ on the cross. Christ had not yet come, thus they remained in Abraham’s Bosom until after His resurrection. Again, you are misinterpreting these things to mean what TPM teaches.

    Peace,
    Ray


  456. The talibanization of Christianity has already been going on in western countries, go to small town america, you find screaming pastors like him

    who do preach from the Word, but with the intention to demean, control, scream and demonize you if you dare to disagree with the pastor or don’t do what he says.

    In America, they scream in churches against arab countries, and islam 24/7, glorify guns and army and death penalty etc etc, list is endless. Women get together, in groups and attack another woman in the group who disagrees, call her devil , and demon possessed etc.

    Kerala has also begun this infection.

    Its no longer the holy spirit, it is the Talebans within the Pentecostals who attack baptists, and catholics, where did Jesus say to attack others ? You follow your life and faith, and let other christians follow Christ also, you don’t impose your lifestyle or choice on others

    They live by word and Spirit, but no, Pentecostal pastors have now begun to sharpen their swords, the Mullahs got their bibles ready and will declare you the SON OF SATAN , if you dare dare dare dare even…..display a hint of “independance”.

    ShalomAlyeikum to the Mullah Pastors, do grow a nice long beard too and yeah don’t forget the headdo and an ak47. Bring some kerosene too, to pour it over your enemy so they can burn in hell more harder for disagreeing with you.


  457. To the so called “helldaddy” Atheist, you are a disgusting invidual picking on a woman who has done nothing wrong to you, and has written her views without harming anyone else. You sound like a bitter TPM worker.


  458. I DO READ THE POSTINGS HERE AND FEEL THAT SUSAN AND RACHEL DO GIVE AN ACCURATE PRESENTATION BOTH ABOUT THE HISTORY OF TPM AND ABOUT THE FALSE DOCTRINES OF TPM.

    IT IS BETTER TO UNDERSTAND THE FOLLOWING REGARDING TPM:

    FIRST OF ALL, TPM BELIEVERS DO NOT WANT THE FALSE DOCTRINES IN TPM TO BE EXPOSED. THUS THEY LOVE TO “FEEL GOOD” ABOUT TPM RATHER THAN FACE THE TRUTH AND GIVE UP THEIR FALSE DOCTRINES.

    THEY ALSO WANT GLORY TO GO THE WORKERS RATHER THAN TO GOD.

    THEY JUST PRETEND TO LOVE TRUTH BUT IN ACTUALITY, THEY CRAVE TO SING PRAISES ABOUT THE CONSECRATION OF THE WORKERS.

    TPM CRAVES FOR AN IDENTITY FOR THEIR DENOMINATION. THEY WANT TO PROJECT THEMSELVES AS “SUPERIOR”.

    MOREOVER, THEY CRAVE TO KEEP THEIR BELIEVERS TOTALLY DEPENDENT UPON THE WORKERS LIKE SUCKLING BABES.

    IT IS THE ABOVE ATTITUDES THAT HAS LED THEM AND FORCED THEM TO FABRICATE MANY FALSE DOCTRINES TO SUIT THEIR “FALSE IMAGE” WHICH THEY HAVE CREATED FOR THEMSELVES.

    TPM WILL BE DELIVERED WHEN THEY GIVE UP THEIR CRAVING FOR “SUPERIORITY” AND THEIR CRAVING TO KEEP THEIR BELIEVERS LIKE BABIES DEPENDENT ON WORKERS.

    MAY GOD OPEN THE EYES OF TPM BELIEVERS WHO VISIT THIS SITE ESPECIALLY THE YOUNG GIRLS AND BOYS WHO ARE DECEIVED.

    SUSAN AND RACHEL, KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK.


  459. CAN CPM PASTORS AND APOSTLES MARRY ???

    Firstly the founder Pastor Paul was a married man and
    had children when in a faithhome. The celibate type of
    ministry was introduced by Pastor Alvin, a sinhalese,
    whose ancestors were Catholics. He changed
    Paul’s vision into a catholic style ministry. Finally
    this Alvin fell in adultery in France Faithome and was excommunicated
    from CPM.

    Secondly, Pastor Freddy Paul, son of the founder (Paul) had got many Pastors married. A leading example is Pastor
    Manohar who is now in Jaipur faithhome. He has four
    children. His wife is Sis. Lilykutty. Similarly the
    founder Paul also got 10 Pastors married and they
    lived in a marriage when in CPM ministry. The CPM
    Pastors suppress these facts from the believers.

    Thirdly, 1 Cor 9 vs 5 states that the apostles had the
    authority to be married and that was why Pastors like
    Manohar, Founder Paul, Pastor Joseph (Composer Sis.
    Glory’s dad), Mother Arthur etc., were all in marriage
    during their ministry. Celibacy was promoted to create
    an identity for TPM and thereby preserve their
    believers from leaving the denomination.

    Fourthly, Moses who was a married man also was able
    to see God face to face. All our dedication are as filthy rags before the Most Holy God. Hence let us brag about Christ and not about the TPM dedication. God can use a donkey for his ministry. Num 22:28. God wants someone who obeys Him and not our man-made dedication.

    Fifthly, Pas. Raman Kutty Paul never had a vision of
    buying lands and buildings for the church or in the name of a Trust. Their vision was to live in rented places and that was why they called it a faithhome. But now the same name is
    used absolutely meaninglessly as people do not know
    the earlier committment.

    But now all rationalisations are provided but they do not want to part with the name “faithhome”.

    I wish you are enlightened with the above and not fall a trap to the TPM’s self glorification of their consecration.

    I encourage you to minister as you are a priest as per 1 Peter 2:5,9. There is only one High Priest who is Jesus. The 12 tribes of Israel had a calling to be a kingdom of priests as per Ex 19:6.

    CPM Pastors will brag about their melchizedek consecration in their songs and sermons and will not reveal that you are a priest.


  460. Brother Philip and John,

    Posts you have posted are pretty old and copied. Many of them have repeated and repeated this very posts word to word ditto many times at many different occasions, eventhough I’ve clearly explained why “Celebate Apostleship” is the “Perfect will of God” as per the Holy Scriptures… I think you are ignoring all of them and diverting other’s attention.

    Anyways you cant suppress the truth. This “pas. Ramankutty’s vision and blah blah has been already explained in response to which there were no posts. These posts are copied and are being pasted again and again. I dont know why. May be they are same people (Susan and Varghese girl) posting them posing as Philip and John.

    Be reasonable. I dont understand why you say “CPM Pastors will brag about their melchizedek consecration in their songs and sermons and will not reveal that you are a priest.“. Is it an innovative way to start a new religion of your own?? Many people are doing it. You can also start a new church for sure in this evil way..

    We always had been taught the other way round that we are all priests and should pray ourself for any need.

    Again you are quoting “1 Cor 9 vs 5 states that the apostles had the authority to be married” for NO reason at all.

    Can you please point me where is it mentioned??? Where is it mentioned that the Bishop “SHOULD BE MARRIED”??? Read my earlier posts for a precise understanding of 1Timothy 9th Chapter.

    Cheers !!!
    Jim


  461. Hi Jim,

    I hope that you don’t mind my butting in, but there are some things you mentioned that peaked my curiosity as to the way you interpreted them. For instance, you assumed that the “perfect will of God” is a “celibate apostleship.” Well, if that is the case, wouldn’t you be assuming that Peter, and the other married Apostles, practiced celibacy so as to remain in His “perfect will”? If yes, where is the Biblical evidence that this was the case. Furthermore, where is the Biblical evidence that God sees celibacy as part of His “perfect will” for ministers?

    You mentioned that Scripture doesn’t say that a bishop should be married. This is true. It doesn’t. However, Scripture doesn’t say that they cannot be married and it surely doesn’t say that ministers should “consecrate” their lives by practicing celibacy. Rather, Scripture states that husband and wives can separate for a time in servitude to God, but they are to come back together again per 1 Corinthians 7:5. And Scripture NEVER put authorities in the position of enforcing celibacy as the rule for ministry, as they do in the “Faith Home.”

    Peace,
    Ray


  462. To Churchmouse,

    What is going on here is anti-TPM people all trying to interpret according to their own understanding. You are trying to prove that your thinking is correct what the believers (in millions around) of TPM are wrong. The words of wise Solomon “in the multitude of counselor there is safety.”

    “Let me tell you that if a Baptist church is teaching falsely (against Scripture) I would be the first to point it out.” This is what every Christian will say about their churches so there is no value to that sentence.

    I do not believe in the doctrines of Jehovah witness but I am not the one to judge them. It is like the Jews or any other religion who does not believe in Christ. They believe in the Jehovah God and they are willing to lay down their life for their faith. You are calling their devotion to their God accursed by simply bringing in the St. Paul in the middle. You employ the same tactics that all Christian employ to protect their views. I always hear the saying that Heaven will be full of surprises.

    “What separates you and me is that I believe there is only one standard for the Christian and that standard is the Bible.” You are correct about this. But the Bible speaks to each individual differently unless you read and accept them as it is. When the Holy Spirit comes he will teach you all things. So according to your understanding and your ability to accept things the Holy Spirit will teach each one. So if you go with a preconceived notion before God you will not learn anything new that will take you to higher experience.
    “That’s ridiculous! I had faith, but I also knew that God gave doctors the knowledge to heal and that I could save my daughter’s life through those he gave the knowledge of healing to.” Yes I have that statement a lot of time. You had faith but you decided to trust in the knowledge of man. The psalmist says that it is better for me to trust in the Lord than to trust in man. I am really sorry that you feel that it is better to trust in the knowledge of the doctors and die in the hospital waiting for bodily deliverance then for a person to die waiting on the lord for healing. Even if I am not able to stand for healing I will definitely encourage people who are standing for healing from whether it is in TPM or any other church.
    “No, I say that TPM’s teaching on this matter is false because people are dying for no reason.” If you call people who die because of waiting on God for healing as dying for no reason then I do not know what you will call the people who die as martyrs for Christ. If I am not mistaken all the Pentecostal have the same understanding about divine healing.
    You are correct this is what separate you and me and not only us but also our churches – Faith in God not only for my spiritual need but also for physical and bodily need. This has nothing to do with perfection. This shows how little your knowledge about TPM is. A famous saying –Little knowledge is dangerous. This is just a small portion about our differences. We have the same principles about everything. When we trust God for something we try to be consistent and not pick and choose like some people do. Many people are experiencing the power of healing in various places of the world and many people (not TPM) are willing to trust in Christ for their bodily healing. So your not believing in God the creator but in the knowledge of the creature and trying to demean them is pathetic (sorry for the strong word).
    The Bible says that the people that do know their God shall be strong and do EXPLOITS. You say you know about TPM but you are trying to take bits and pieces of what you heard during your short time and make it into a snowball effects.
    I do not see any consistency in your argument. First you call us cults and then you say that you never said that they will not go to Hell and willing to treat them as buddies in heaven. “There is no “personal” feeling involved; neither am I on a vendetta against TPM.” But I see the old wounds coming out.
    There is a common proverb that a man who does not know how to dance will blame the unevenness of the ground. Since you will not understand how it relates to TPM. I will explain that people like you (and others few selected) who cannot understand TPM’s doctrine, leave the church and then start accusing them always blames the institution rather than acknowledge their own lack of understanding.


  463. To bro,

    I can’t speak for everyone but I know that I speak from my experience as a TPM member, so you really can’t downplay what I stated. I do understand TPM because I experienced TPM and, unfortunately, everything I stated is true. I am very use to TPM members decrying my statements and extolling TPM, but when all is said and done, those who are members will have to admit that there are problems in TPM’s doctrinal teachings. To misuse Proverbs 24:6 (…multitude of counselors…) is unwise considering many cults would do the same. You need to quit misusing Scripture and, instead, be a faithful Berean, comparing TPM’s doctrines to what Scripture teaches.

    You said…

    “This is what every Christian will say about their churches so there is no value to that sentence.”

    You’re kidding me, correct? Has it ever occurred to you that Scripture calls us to reveal false doctrine? This would mean that if any church, Baptist, Pentecostal or otherwise, taught heresy, we are to expose it and condemn it. So, please, don’t be flippant about this.

    You said that you won’t judge what Jehovah Witnesses believes. Again, I wonder what Bible you’ve been reading. Have you read Galatians 1? If someone is teaching a false gospel, they fall under the condemnation of Paul’s words in Galatians 1. Paul stated that—even if he were teaching a gospel other than the original one—let HIM be accursed. Yet, you want to ignore the false gospel of the Jehovah’s Witnesses? You really don’t know Scripture do you.

    You said…

    “You employ the same tactics that all Christian employ to protect their views. I always hear the saying that Heaven will be full of surprises.”

    It seems to me that you are the one protecting YOUR views, considering I’m not defending anything Baptists teach, but only my negative experiences with TPM and the lies perpetuated by some of their ministers. The views regarding marriage and doctors are things which Scripture doesn’t teach; neither did the earliest church promote it.

    You said…

    “But the Bible speaks to each individual differently unless you read and accept them as it is. When the Holy Spirit comes he will teach you all things. So according to your understanding and your ability to accept things the Holy Spirit will teach each one. So if you go with a preconceived notion before God you will not learn anything new that will take you to higher experience.”

    So, what you are saying is that God is the author of confusion, correct? Because, according to you, the Holy Spirit can lead us into differences that do not harmonize with the rest of Scripture. Even though Scripture tells us to “rightly divide the word of truth” (2 Timothy 2:15) and commends the Bereans for “searching the Scriptures daily” (Acts 17:11), you believe that Scripture should be accepted at face value. Well, if that is the case, then I guess I should accept 1 Timothy 4:1-3 at face value and condemn TPM’s teaching on marriage as a “doctrine of devils.” Again, it seems that you want to throw caution to the wind and this only proves to me that you really don’t know what you speak of.

    You said…

    “Yes I have that statement a lot of time. You had faith but you decided to trust in the knowledge of man. The psalmist says that it is better for me to trust in the Lord than to trust in man. I am really sorry that you feel that it is better to trust in the knowledge of the doctors and die in the hospital waiting for bodily deliverance then for a person to die waiting on the lord for healing. Even if I am not able to stand for healing I will definitely encourage people who are standing for healing from whether it is in TPM or any other church.”

    Your statement here proves to me that you are ignorantly indoctrinated into what TPM teaches as “faith.” You ignore verses such as Matthew 9:12 and ignore facts such as Luke being a physician himself. You parallel “faith” and “perfection” as walking hand in hand, but ignore that Asa was “perfect” in God’s eyes, even though he sought the physicians. You ignore that, historically, the “physicians” Asa sought were not doctors, but pagan priests who used occult practices for healing. You ignore that Paul, who was full of faith, had a “thorn in the flesh” (2 Corinthians 12:7) and was never healed. You ignore that he told Timothy to use “wine” as medicine “for thy stomach’s sake” and for his frequent “infirmities” (1 Timothy 5:23). I guess Timothy and Paul just didn’t have the “faith” for healing as well. Again, don’t use Scripture flippantly, as you did again here, but “rightly divide” it. I’m sure the reader can see that I use Scripture to prove what I speak of rather than use it as an emotional tool. Do you have a Scriptural answer to counteract anything I’ve stated? So far, you haven’t provided anything.

    You said…

    “If you call people who die because of waiting on God for healing as dying for no reason then I do not know what you will call the people who die as martyrs for Christ. If I am not mistaken all the Pentecostal have the same understanding about divine healing.”

    This is a false comparison. People who die when they could have gone to a doctor for healing CANNOT be compared to those who died for proclaiming their faith in Christ. And, yes, you are mistaken because the majority of Pentecostal churches DO NOT teach that going to doctors shows a lack of faith. Neither do they teach that perfection is contingent on proving your “faith” by inviting death. No, TPM, as well as some other cults, are alone in this.

    You said…

    “You are correct this is what separate you and me and not only us but also our churches – Faith in God not only for my spiritual need but also for physical and bodily need. This has nothing to do with perfection. This shows how little your knowledge about TPM is. A famous saying –Little knowledge is dangerous. This is just a small portion about our differences. We have the same principles about everything. When we trust God for something we try to be consistent and not pick and choose like some people do. Many people are experiencing the power of healing in various places of the world and many people (not TPM) are willing to trust in Christ for their bodily healing. So your not believing in God the creator but in the knowledge of the creature and trying to demean them is pathetic (sorry for the strong word).”

    Again, either you are not familiar with TPM’s teachings or you are misrepresenting them. TPM teaches that “perfection” is contingent on faith. If one is dying of cancer and “trusts in God for his healing” and then dies, TPM claims that this is accounted as a perfect faith. And, no, TPM is not consistent. When they stop brushing their teeth, having faith that God will not let them decay and keep them white, they aren’t truly having “faith” in God. Until TPM’s ministers stop wearing glasses and trusting their astigmatism, myopia, etc. to God’s healing, they truly aren’t practicing “faith” in God. Consistency is NOT a TPM strong suit. It is hypocrisy. No one is trying to “demean” TPM, but rather exposing their false and inconsistent teachings. It seems to me that you spend more time defending TPM rather than defending what Scripture teaches.

    You said…

    “The Bible says that the people that do know their God shall be strong and do EXPLOITS. You say you know about TPM but you are trying to take bits and pieces of what you heard during your short time and make it into a snowball effects.”

    You keep saying these things, but you don’t say where the Bible says what you claim it says. Furthermore, I know that you will probably toss a Scripture in that has nothing to do with the subject at hand. I was with TPM for more than a “short time”, so please don’t attempt to demean what I’m saying. Furthermore, I keep on pressing the point that I have EXPERIENCE with their false teaching, not only with my daughter, of which the Faith Home tried to impress that I not take her to a doctor, but when they attempted to stop my marriage, claiming that it wasn’t God’s will. Well, just to show you how “off the track” they were, we will be celebrating our 25th anniversary this October and we’ve had 4 wonderful children. Again, it is EXPERIENCE that counts and not emotional appeals, justifying their actions.

    You said…

    “I do not see any consistency in your argument.”

    Actually, my argument has been very consistent, scripturally and experientially. You, on the other hand, have yet to prove that TPM isn’t guilty of these practices and Scripture is just a frivolous tool to you, used to demean your opponent rather than to support your argument. That’s become very evident.

    You said…

    “First you call us cults and then you say that you never said that they will not go to Hell and willing to treat them as buddies in heaven. “There is no “personal” feeling involved; neither am I on a vendetta against TPM.” But I see the old wounds coming out.”

    It seems that you spend so much time misrepresenting my argument that you can’t understand that God calls us to expose false doctrine, using the time-tested proven methods of Scriptural exegesis and hermeneutics. There is nothing “personal” here. There are no vendettas. I am just a servant of God exposing the false doctrines of TPM. How do I know about these false doctrines? Because I’ve grown as a Christian and realize that my past experience with TPM anchors my firm stance in orthodoxy. I can do what God calls me to do or I can ignore God in this matter. I chose the former. I will do what God calls me to do.

    You said…

    “There is a common proverb that a man who does not know how to dance will blame the unevenness of the ground. Since you will not understand how it relates to TPM. I will explain that people like you (and others few selected) who cannot understand TPM’s doctrine, leave the church and then start accusing them always blames the institution rather than acknowledge their own lack of understanding.”

    Instead of appealing to proverbs and demeaning our experiences with this cult, why don’t you exegete Scripture and prove me wrong. As I stated before, Scripture is above all and, if you cannot use it to refute my position or my claims, then all you have is emotion and that will not get you very far.

    Peace,
    Ray


  464. Bloody hypocrytes !!!! All of them.. Gandhiji was so right, Christianity is a religion of hypocrytes, with all of them trying to showoff as better than others.

    who is following Christ here?? If anybody here comes in front of me face to face and says “I follow”.. I would smash the head of that bloddy hypocryte.

    This blog is not only nonsense but also the biggest stupidity and a blot on ‘wordpress blogging community’. There are many reasons for this. First of all, the blog owner is an athiest; some rachel chitra whatever and there are others who say they are good christians than others. And some others who are advocating they are better Christians than others. And some of them, who advocate that they are the best. funny indeed… !!!

    Most of all, this is still a confusion for me, why the hell an athiest set up such a blog???? Its crystal clear that the cause of the owner of this blog being an athiest is because of this church tpm (seemingly very much traditional conservative church of jewish christians). And that bitterness and hatred for this church led this Rachel Chitra to create such a blog. And then as I mentioned earlier, a bunch of foolish hypocryte christians putting up masalas and garlic to this foolish blog.

    You all hypocrytes will die, and must die from the hands of true hindustanis. You all dont deserve to be even breathing on the land of India.


  465. As I stated before, Scripture is above all and, if you cannot use it to refute my position or my claims, then all you have is emotion and that will not get you very far.

    Brother Ray ,

    Why dont you approach a TPM pastor and ask him for those scripture… If you think they are the source of all this cult, why dont you ask thm directly?? why us?? I’m very sure a day in discussion with any TPM pastor will change your perspective and perception about TPM church for a lifetime.

    Next thing you do.. meet a tpm pastor and discuss. If you have not, then I would say you are showing off your spiritual knowledge come out of pride to a bunch of fools here rather than talking to experts. You know they say “a man with literacy is king in the land of illiterate”.. So here we admit.. all of us from TPM are illiterate and fools.

    Cheers !!!
    Jim.


  466. Hi Jim,

    You said…

    **Why dont you approach a TPM pastor and ask him for those scripture… If you think they are the source of all this cult, why dont you ask thm directly?? why us?? I’m very sure a day in discussion with any TPM pastor will change your perspective and perception about TPM church for a lifetime.**

    I’ve already done that. I’ve gotten various responses, but all seem to center on some form of Christian mysticism that relies on verses pulled out of their context. All too often, if I try to correct via Scripture, they want to get on the phone or look at me as if I have frogs coming out of my ears. It is hard to correct an indoctrinated individual who relies on “feelings.” The ironic thing is that TPM encourages that we don’t rely on feelings, yet the overwhelming majority of their meetings are emotionally-based. Yet, the bottom line is that I have spoken to various “Faith Home” ministers here in the USA and they have only strengthen my belief that many cannot think for themselves and the enforced “lifestyle” they follow only leads to emotional dependency.

    You said…

    **Next thing you do.. meet a tpm pastor and discuss. If you have not, then I would say you are showing off your spiritual knowledge come out of pride to a bunch of fools here rather than talking to experts. You know they say “a man with literacy is king in the land of illiterate”.. So here we admit.. all of us from TPM are illiterate and fools.**

    To say that TPM as “illiterate and fools” comes off as false humility considering their stance regarding the heirarchy of believers and their status in the afterlife. In other words, it boggles my mind that one would use such words to describe themselves and then commit to teaching an eschatology that puts themselves high above the “average” Christian in the kingdom. No one is “showing off”, but rather OBEYING the command of Galatians 1 in preaching a pure, unadulterated gospel. Why is this so hard to understand? And why is it that much of the responses from TPM supporters center on subliminal personal attacks rather than Biblical interaction? It surely doesn’t look good for TPM if this is the only way their members respond.

    Peace,
    Ray


  467. Amit,

    The only thing I can say is that any religion can have hypocrites in their ranks, including Christianity. However, judging by the tones of your post, I would rather be a Christian, a million times over, than someone who spews out the hate you exude in your post. You can say what you want about Christianity, but regardless of the people, Christ STILL sits on the throne and you WILL meet Him someday. I can only hope that you will come to know Him while you are here, rather than have to face Him when you meet Him there. I’m sure you will have many hypocritical “Christians” keeping you company on the way down.


  468. on April 28, 2009 at 5:03 am Pratap Singh

    Hi Friends,

    I am not a born TPM believer but my parents started going to TPM church when I was studying 7th standard. And from now on God id providing everything as per his glory to our family. Still i am not a TPM believer(but my parents are), but i belive in christ and appreciate the pastors and believers to live a different life amidst this bad world. There might me some guys in church who are bad but its not all guys(after all we are all human being and not living in heaven). So rather commenting on some church ,just try to understand where you stand in christ. try to check are you and ur heart is good and close to God. Honestly I am not.But i pray to God to make me a good child of him. Whereever we are and whichever church we go….just read the bible and try to atleast not comment on another people will n wish as you have lot more things to do on ur life to make u better in christ.It should be just u and ur god and ur bible. I think that will force you to pray and build relationship with God almighty,so all these words of hatredness against anyone or any denomination will not even blink in you mind or in this blog..I love christianity and just wish to live in the doctrines of god which i am not doing right now. But i will try and i am trying…………Keep trying guys……..God Bless you…..


  469. HOW DOES SATAN TRAP WORKERS?

    If a worker teaches and trains the believers to depend on the Holy Spirit then the believers learn to start depending on the Holy Spirit.

    A believer who has learnt to depend on the Holy Spirit will not depend on pastors wholly for spiritual food and encouragement.

    However, what happens currently is that believers depend on workers and their Sunday morning sermons and bible studies. The believers find it very difficult to receive the spiritual food from the Holy Spirit directly as per 1 John 2:27.

    It is this dependency on workers that has become very easy for satan to deceive the believers with false doctrines. All satan has to do is to induce false doctrines in the mind of the worker. Then when the worker starts to preach that false doctrine all the worker-dependent believers believe that false doctrine to be a word from God.

    The next question is how do false doctrines enter the mind of workers? Workers who call themselves as full time pastors start focusing on believers for money and not on God. They start to feel insecure because they do not have a job of their own as Paul the apostle did.

    They pretend not to ask for money openly but in their hearts, they start lusting for the tithe money of the believers. They also cover up their lust for money by dressing themselves in white clothing displaying a false humility.

    Once they have started focusing on money in their hearts they start to cling on to the believer. How do they do that? They do that by making the believers to cling on to them.

    How do they make the believers to cling on to them? By doing the following:

    1. By preaching that they are melchizedek priests unbiblically and as to how great their calling is.
    2. By preaching about the great sacrifices they did to become a pastor.
    3. By preaching about their greatness of being a celibate worker.
    4. By speaking ill of other denominations.
    5. By creating a set of false doctrines just to show themselves to be superior.

    Thus, instead of glorifying Christ they have ended up glorifying themselves just to enslave the believers to themselves. All for money!!


  470. 1) Firstly, the High Priesthood status of the Old Testament temple was passed down only to the “firstborns” in Aaron’s family.

    Hence, Aaron and his first son Eleazer who is alive and then Eleazer’s first son and so on and on would ONLY get the High priesthood position. No other descendents in Aaron’s family are eligible for that position. Only the “Firstborns” get that position.

    Similarly, Jesus became THE firstborn by being raised from the dead as per Acts 13:33. He is also the High Priest in the heavenly temple as per Heb 4:15.

    Jesus is the ONLY firstborn as per Romans 8:29 which says, “For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.”

    2) Secondly, the High Priesthood position in the Old Testament did not belong just to one person but instead was indeed passed down to the next generation. Why?

    Because the High Priests are humans and they died.

    But the High Priesthood status of Jesus is not passed down to anybody as He is the
    Immortal Son of God as per Hebrews 7: 23, 24.

    CPM’S STRANGE CLAIM:

    But CPM presumptuously and falsely call themselves as descendents of such a High Priest!! Jesus does not pass his High Priest position to anybody, as He is the “ONLY firstborn” as per Romans 8:29. Only the Old Testament High Priests passed down their position as they died.

    3) Thirdly, TPM workers say that they are high priests after the order of Melchizedek and therefore they are very special. However, what does the Bible say?

    a) Heb 7:17 says, “You (Jesus) are a priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek.”

    b) Heb 6:20 says, “…He (Jesus) has become a high priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek.”

    c) Even in Psalms 110:4 we read, “You (Jesus) are a priest forever,
    in the order of Melchizedek.”

    WHAT IS THE TRUTH? Thus, the above verses clearly state that it was Jesus who alone is the High Priest and there is absolutely not a single verse in reference to celibate workers or anyone else being called as Melchizedek Priests. TPM presumptuously propagates a lie without quoting any verse in particular.


  471. susan monkey turns to grace monkey


  472. Doctors do not heal. Instead, they just provide treatment. TPM does not understand this basic difference.

    Because of TPM’s ignorance of this basic truth, they have ended up confusing the whole issue.

    Remember, the truth is that going to a doctor for treatment is not lack of faith. Instead going to a doctor for healing amounts to lack of faith.

    So instead of preventing people from going to doctors altogether, teach people to go to doctors for treatment and not for healing.

    For healing, a person has to set his / her relationship right before God.

    The problem with TPM is that they took their “identity” creating fabricated doctrines from Pas. Alwin and not from Raman Kutty to whom God gave the vision of TPM.

    Such false doctrines fabricated to create an identity for TPM are the following:

    1. False interpretation of divine Healing.
    2. Melchizedek-calling-for-workers.
    3. Celibate apostleship.
    4. TPM celibate workers belong to 144,000.
    5. Women and marriage defiles a person.
    6. Misinterpretation of Matthew 19:29.
    7. Calling TPM buildings as “faith homes”.
    8. Sunday school teachers and workers compulsorily prevented from wearing jewels whereas lately as a compromise other believers are allowed to wear jewels.


  473. U bloddy Churchmouse..

    Do u even knw who am I ?? I wish the law permitted me to finish you 1st for your extra smart reply … If you think ur smart, sorry I cudnt find u so… I was actually googling for TPM (Total Productivity Mgmt) and bumped into this foolish piece of shit. I’m trying to wash off the shit but then the stain of this hypocratic-shit is so strong, I’m unable to.

    My stance is still the same… I think this Rachel Chitra should b sent to some assylum for a break. She is sure to have some kind of pscycological disorders. And what is this?? I happen to read some Susan’s posts earlier and the same is being copied and pasted by some1 else called this grace… Is that a tradition or some kind of copyright overruling or plagaurism here??.. both seem to be Christians again among which there was born, the sense of bitteress and that bitterness and hatred for some church led this Rachel Chitra to create such a blog. And then as I mentioned earlier, a bunch of foolish hypocryte christians putting up masalas and garlic to this foolish piece of shit and interestingly all of them deny to be called as athiest.

    Do you know wht is it like to be an athiest?? Do u knw the philosophy behind it?? Even Vedas and other hindu scriptures are against one being a nastic (athiest). And you like a fool and telling me that the Christ is sitting on the throne. First tell ur moderator to clean her a** den get bak to other’s. Same instruction applies to u too.. 1st u clean ur shit and get back to other’s if that is your job.

    And ur telling me that ur sure i’ll have have many hypocritical Christians on my way?? YOU ARE THE 1st ONE. then this susan, then this grace, then this jim, and i dunno wht to call this rachel athiest. And i also dunno WHAT to call this phenomenon of getting a bunch of so called “true christians” together in an athiest’s blog to encourage WHAT?? I have no idea of wht exacly you people are looking for?? its funny rather your good luck that the law isnt in my hand.


  474. Okays Bro Ray..

    Its very clear that you have read Bible a lot but learnt no inner truths. 1 Corinthians 7:5 which you quoted for supporting anti-celibacy apostleship is purely for a husband and wife and not for a consecrated servant of God. I have heard about this being taught in the pre-marital counselling. Concluded. ur a better Christian..!!! btw which church do u goto?? Baptist?? leme know that.

    Cheers!!!
    Jim.


  475. Bro Amit,

    Request you to please lower ur harsh tone. Its doesnt appear gud from a traditional hindu. You see there are many who are hyprocrytes and esp those who think they possess inner depth of the scriptures without having personal realtions with God. This increases spiritual pride which triggers many people to talk “christianity” in “philosophical” way. As Sadhu Vasvani said about religion “Speak less, practice more”. There are many among Chrstians as well as in all other faiths who do the talking but no walking.

    People who blame and accuse others dont understand one simple fact and that the “Gospel is very simple for a child to understand but yet so very complex and deep for a philosopher percieve” This applies mainly to our athiest moderator here.

    When a person goes to Ashram or say “Bible College”, they STUDY scripture which makes them feel spiritually superior to others. This is the same case with Brahmins which caused the whole Indian population to get divided in to castes. People got divided, hatred was born, followed by untouchability and even blood-shed. Was there any use of the scriptural knowledge?? NO.

    Same is the scenario with Christianity. Best example is this blog where the moderator is an athiest i.e nastic and all others “believing in God”. A lot of discussions, blaming, accusations and hatred resulting in no +ve results. They say its “eye-opening”. The eys which has been opened thus far; very sure of being bugged up with strong doctrines which this church holds which they cant follow. So to find excuses they read books, bring out choices from scriptures to suit thier own personality as they do in Gita also.

    Eg:- In Hinduism, they say adultary is sin but then again to suit thier own choice, some say “karm karte raho but fal ka asha na rakho”. They twist the meaning as “have sex as and wen u want with anyone but dont alow that taste to overcome you or cause you do it again. Refrain from the pleasures and attraction”.

    Similarly, there are many such examples which can be quoted from Koran which resulted in forming “Khwaja Muslims”, who follow “prophet and His excellency King Aga Khan” and dont goto Mosques but Jamatkhanas.

    In similar fashion, Bible is the ultimate book of divine law, which can be twisted to suit one’s choice as and when they like. As they do it in the court where case is one, book of penal code is one but if there are 10 lawyers, there will be 10 view points referring to the same book of “Indian penal code”.

    This is the only sense behind it brother… but the truth remains same. Jesus will appear on clouds. HE WILL COME.. His 2nd coming is very near. Are you ready for someone who beated death (like none.. like no other gods or any human being) and rose up to come again for U??

    Cheers !!
    Jim.


  476. Dear Jim,

    Your reply to Amit was superb!!!! I am very much pleased to read it….Keep it up..

    Yar Amit, you should understand the purpose of you coming to this blog. Its not co-incidental!!!! God has a plan for you.

    Cheers to all

    JACOB


  477. Hi Jacob, and… literally ALL,

    That reply was not just for Amit but all of those “philosophical Christians” here who advocate thier so called opinions and calling it as “revelation of Holy Spirit” and proclaiming themselves to be spiritually superior, surprisingly by accusing and playing blame games.

    People must reallise that the devil is very subtly using this blog-section to create havoc and hatred among Christian bretheren. And most ironically his instrument is so perfect–“an Athiest” !!!

    neways… Do remember in prayer for the new goverment and all the political leaders. Its going to be crucial. His coming is very near !!! No one is perfect.. not even me. Pray for all those who are like me, short of glory and with sin.

    Cheers !!!
    Jim


  478. To anyone who are against unmarried pastors, I want to tell you only one verse from the Bible which Jesus Himself said.

    Jesus said,

    “IF ANY MAN SERVE ME, LET HIM FOLLOW ME”

    DID JESUS MARRY ?

    IF ANYONE’S ANSWER IS YES, LET HIM FOLLOW HIM.

    To prepare a Church as a bride for Christ which is spotless, blameless & glorious, a servant of God should separate himself for the cause of Christ and His Church.


  479. Jim,

    Where are you from?? Which city I mean?
    Also, if you dont mind, can I know which church do you attend for sunday services??

    Regards
    JACOB


  480. Hi Jacob,

    I was in Santacruz (W), Mumbai for last 10 months on a project assignment. While being in Mumbai, I attended TPM Ville Parle (Mum-Center). Now back in Pune, got a new job, attending the services in Shantinagar. Will be going to Bangalore next week for 3 months for a company sponsored training on some new technology related stuff.

    What about you, what do you do??

    Rgds,
    Jim.


  481. Amit,

    As I stated before, I feel sorry for you. Your worldview is built on hate and it shows. You must lead a very sordid life, but it’s okay. Everyone is free to live life as they please. Sooner or later, you will meet Jesus Christ and let’s see what you will tell Him when that time comes. As for the rest of your nonsense, it isn’t worth the time to read it as it took to type it. Your vitriol is misguided and can be said from the comfort of your room and your computer. I really doubt if you would say it to someone on a “face to face” basis. Talk is cheap.

    Ray


  482. Jim, you said…

    **Its very clear that you have read Bible a lot but learnt no inner truths.**

    This assumes that TPM is truly teaching “inner truths.” You haven’t proven that they are. Furthermore, you assume that there are “inner truths” that have escaped the church universal, but has somehow been revealed to the originators of TPM. Doesn’t this strike you just a tad bit odd?

    You said…

    **1 Corinthians 7:5 which you quoted for supporting anti-celibacy apostleship is purely for a husband and wife and not for a consecrated servant of God. I have heard about this being taught in the pre-marital counselling.**

    You’re putting in your own accepted (TPM’s) interpretation while reading the verse. Did you forget that it states..

    “But since there is so much immorality, each man SHOULD have his own wife, and each woman her own husband. The husband SHOULD fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and LIKEWISE the wife to her husband. The wife’s body does not belong to her alone but also to her husband. In the same way, the husband’s body does not belong to him alone but also to his wife. DO NOT deprive each other except by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. THEN COME TOGETHER AGAIN so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control. I say this as a CONCESSION (by permission), NOT as a command.” (1 Corinthians 7:2-6)

    Paul is NOT teaching that husbands and wives should “consecrate” their lives and cease to have marital relations, but that they are to do it “for a time” and then “come together again.” You will find NO such command from Paul that the married or the unmarried are to become “consecrated” in the way TPM teaches. Even in these verses, Paul speak by “permission”, meaning that he is only speaking as “Paul”, and not of “commandment”, meaning that there is no command that believers must be celibate in order to achieve some type of consecration. Let’s face it, TPM separates their ministers from their wives in complete opposition to what God intended for marriages.

    You said…

    **Concluded. ur a better Christian..!!! btw which church do u goto?? Baptist?? leme know that.**

    This isn’t a muscle-flexing competition for who is the better Christian. I am just a man who once attended New Testament Church (TPM’s sister church in the USA) and speaks from his experiences with TPM. God knows me and He knows my heart. A good study of Scripture will only reveal TPM’s doctrinal deficiencies and the unnecessary burdens they place on their believers. The one thing that stands out amongst the conversations on this blog, is the constant appeal to emotions and the lack of Scriptural evidence or understanding.

    I am a Christian who attends a Reformed Baptist church. However, labels aren’t what defines me but only what Scripture teaches. So, please, don’t make this a “my denomination vs. yours” issue, but stick to the truth of Scripture. Denominations aren’t the issue here, but only what Scripture teaches regarding TPM’s distinctives.

    Peace,
    Ray


  483. Ray,

    isn’t a muscle-flexing competition for who is the better Christian

    This is what is being proven by you. Every posts of yours reflects hartred and blame. To a post addressed to Amit too you call his posts as “nonsense” when you know he isnt saved. Then again you tell him that his talk is cheap, which emphasises your image as spiritualy much more superior than him or everyone else. Amit’s speach, in a condition as he is in, reflects his ignorance. Instead of you trying to explain him things the way he can understand, you are blaming him by telling him directly:
    Sooner or later, you will meet Jesus Christ and let’s see what you will tell Him when that time comes
    This is true but have you realised one thing that this comment on him has ignited more fire within him against you, me and the entire Christian bretheren?? IS that the way Reformed Baptist Church teaches you to preach Gospel?? I doubt.

    You even tell Amit “I really doubt if you would say it to someone on a “face to face” basis”.

    This tells me you’ve got infuriated with his comments and you are provoking him to fight with you (face to face basis yea??). Where as I’m very sure that this good man if comes face to face with you would knock ur nose beyond your head and atleast Indian-law would be cripple to handle this case with majoriy of them here. This is not USA.

    Ray, be sensible and graceful while telling gospel to anyone esp in India.

    The one thing that stands out amongst the conversations on this blog, is the constant appeal to emotions and the lack of Scriptural evidence or understanding.

    This is not about emotions. This is about having personal RELATIONS with God rather than having too much knowledge leading to philosophical understaning of the same; which again sprouts confusions leading to a lot more questions and a bunch of more confusions and spirit of rebellion. Man looks at the ‘face’ and ‘level of knowledge by the way you write and talk’ but God looks at heart.

    IF that is your experience with TPM, then you looked around for choices as I mentioned in my earlier post. But as for me and many more believer’s experience are positive. I’ve been to many churches. They, as I see are filled with politics, corruptions and conspiracies. I’ve seen churches as “dirty business houses” than a “place of worship”. No church could give me the level of spiritual food as tpm has given me and I bet no church in the whole world can give you the level of spiritual guidance that tpm gives.

    I was so very right. You and many here who are playing the blame-games are the same ones who once upon a time were a part of tpm. btw, New Testament Church in USA isnt sister church of TPM with its administration entrusted to someone else, but TPM itself.

    And as for your following statements: please take some time to scroll-up and read my posts which explains you “Why Celibacy in serving the Most High??”

    Paul is NOT teaching that husbands and wives should “consecrate” their lives and cease to have marital relations, but that they are to do it “for a time” and then “come together again.” You will find NO such command from Paul that the married or the unmarried are to become “consecrated” in the way TPM teaches. Even in these verses, Paul speak by “permission”, meaning that he is only speaking as “Paul”, and not of “commandment”, meaning that there is no command that believers must be celibate in order to achieve some type of consecration. Let’s face it, TPM separates their ministers from their wives in complete opposition to what God intended for marriages.

    May be I have explained all these a hundred times over. I’ve no time to even copy-paste for every new face here as susan varghese and others do….


  484. Ray,

    I wish you would ignore what Jim says. I have long stopped commenting on this post, as I find the discussion lacks substance – its high on emotions but with little appeal to the intellect.
    I for one found your arguments rational, logical and very level-headed :-)